Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-12-2012, 12:15   #1
arushus
Biggest Member
 
arushus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NE Oklahoma
Posts: 2,565
Which of these ammo selections is going to be best for zeroing my rifle?

I own an M4 with a non-chrome lined CMV 16" 1-9 barrel and carbine gas system. Im curious what everyone's opinion is on which is going to be the most accurate for zeroing my sights out of all the different types of ammo I own.

MK318
XM-193
XM-856 tracer
Winchester ZQ3313 5.56 64gr nosler bonded soft point
PMC bronze .223
Tulammo .223
Hornady .223 55gr fmj brass
Remington UMC 55gr fmj brass
Hornady Super Performance Match 5.56 75gr BTHP (#81264)

My choice would be the Hornady SPM ammo, but Im not sure if the 1-9 16" barrel will stabilize it...Assuming it does not stabilize it, which of these other ammo choices I already own should I use?
Im not opposed to buying a different ammo I dont already have.
Ive been thinking I should get some of the hornady SPM 5.56 in a 69gr or lighter/shorter selection. But feel free to suggest something I haven't already thought of..

If this is a stupid newbie question that you feel is a waste of time, then Im sincerely sorry for the trouble. But, please try to keep the replies to constructive suggestions or tips. Ive been berated enough over on m4carbine for asking a question that somebody already asked three years ago that I should have been intently searching for on their archives instead of being such a tremendous drain on resources and an inexcusable waste of their precious time...

Thanks everyone!
__________________
Glock 20SF Gen 3
Glock 27 NiB-X Gen 3
Glock 19 Gen 4
Spike's Tactical Enhanced CHF 16" Mid-Length M4
These Red Letters Help me find my post!!!

Last edited by arushus; 10-12-2012 at 12:24..
arushus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:19   #2
NeverMore1701
Platinum Membership
Fear no evil.
 
NeverMore1701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Amarillo, Tx
Posts: 30,353
You should sight it in with whatever load you're going to be shooting out of it.
__________________
And if we should die tonight
We should all die together
Raise a glass of wine
For the last time
NeverMore1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:21   #3
arushus
Biggest Member
 
arushus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NE Oklahoma
Posts: 2,565
Well my personal defense load is probably going to be the Winchester ZQ3313. But that could easily change as I become more informed on ammo choices. And I use whatever is cheapest for plinking. I suppose Winchester ZQ3313 is as good of a choice as any.
__________________
Glock 20SF Gen 3
Glock 27 NiB-X Gen 3
Glock 19 Gen 4
Spike's Tactical Enhanced CHF 16" Mid-Length M4
These Red Letters Help me find my post!!!

Last edited by arushus; 10-12-2012 at 12:27..
arushus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:44   #4
WoodenPlank
Who?
 
WoodenPlank's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 7,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by arushus View Post
Well my personal defense load is probably going to be the Winchester ZQ3313. But that could easily change as I become more informed on ammo choices. And I use whatever is cheapest for plinking. I suppose Winchester ZQ3313 is as good of a choice as any.
Zero with 3313.

I zero my SBR with XM193 at 50 yards. At that distance, XM855 and Hornady TAP T2 75gr all are inside the 4MOA dot of my Aimpoint, with even less shift at closer distances.

Since you have a 1/9 barrel, the 75gr ammo may or may not hold a solid group at any significant distance - each barrel is different. Some 1/9 will do well with 75 grain, many will not.

Each rifle is different in what particular load will produce the best groups. This can even change from lot to lot of the same ammo. Get out and try different loads in yours, and see what works the best in YOUR AR.
__________________
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
WoodenPlank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:44   #5
A6Gator
Senior Member
 
A6Gator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Barack's Plantation
Posts: 3,401
Rule of thumb is faster twist for heavier bullets. Depending what you're going to do with your rifle, dialing it in with whatever ammo you're going to use makes the most sense. You might want to think about whether you want a 25yd battle zero or dialing it in a 50yds. Crossover points will vary, so again, it goes back to what you intend to do with the rifle.

Assuming a 55gr bullet moving at 3200fps, zeroed at 25 yds, you'll be 3.7" high at 150yds and back on at 270 yds ending up 2.36" low at 300. Same load with a 50 yd zero, it crosses back over at 150yds, but the highest it gets is .53" at 100 yds, -1.81 at 200 and -9.81 at 300. Basically, if your shots are going to be inside 200, I'd zero at 50 and you can basically point and shoot, if you expect to go beyond that, I'd take a look at a 25yd zero.
__________________
-The only easy day was yesterday
-If you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just say this to yourself... “Baa.”
A6Gator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:56   #6
AK_Stick
AAAMAD
 
AK_Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alaska, again (for now)
Posts: 20,771
Send a message via AIM to AK_Stick Send a message via Yahoo to AK_Stick
How far are you shooting, and at what?


Probably will not make a great deal of difference what you're shooting, if all you do is punch paper for fun, 300 yds or less.
__________________
Quote:
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
AK_Stick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 13:11   #7
arushus
Biggest Member
 
arushus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NE Oklahoma
Posts: 2,565
Im pretty sure Im gonna go with the 50 yard/200 meter zero. If not then the 100 meter zero.
__________________
Glock 20SF Gen 3
Glock 27 NiB-X Gen 3
Glock 19 Gen 4
Spike's Tactical Enhanced CHF 16" Mid-Length M4
These Red Letters Help me find my post!!!
arushus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 13:23   #8
AK_Stick
AAAMAD
 
AK_Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alaska, again (for now)
Posts: 20,771
Send a message via AIM to AK_Stick Send a message via Yahoo to AK_Stick
Not zero, how far do you plan to shoot the rifle?


A basic 50/200 zero, will be accurate enough, for most people, with most ammo types. You can shoot just about everything, and make hits on paper.


If you're going to be doing longer shooting/your a better shooter, you might get to where you zero your rifle with a specific load, and are shooting for tight groups, vs just fun shooting for hits.


If you're going to be shooting past 300m, or you're looking to shoot teeny tiny groups on paper, I would suggest a 100 yd zero, with the specific ammo you're shooting. Since you have such a wide range of ammo to shoot, I suggested something different, as I'm guessing you're just looking to have fun.
__________________
Quote:
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
AK_Stick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 14:14   #9
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 15,051
It's not going to make a lick of practical difference at short to medium ranges.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 10-12-2012 at 14:23..
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 14:50   #10
arushus
Biggest Member
 
arushus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NE Oklahoma
Posts: 2,565
I want to be as accurate as possible with my personal defense ammo, and Im thinking that zeroing it will get me close enough for everything else. And I am just looking to have some fun right now, and deer hunt with it in a couple months. I do intend to trust my life to it if it ever comes to that... I dont see myself shooting past 300yds/m, but it would nice to be able to hit say an 8" or smaller target consistently at that range. I really dont know what kind of groups I can expect to get at that distance with a 16" barrel. But as Ive said, I do want to be as accurate as possible.
__________________
Glock 20SF Gen 3
Glock 27 NiB-X Gen 3
Glock 19 Gen 4
Spike's Tactical Enhanced CHF 16" Mid-Length M4
These Red Letters Help me find my post!!!
arushus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 14:55   #11
AK_Stick
AAAMAD
 
AK_Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alaska, again (for now)
Posts: 20,771
Send a message via AIM to AK_Stick Send a message via Yahoo to AK_Stick
Well, then you need to limit yourself to a choice of your ammo selection, or change your zero, depending upon what you're doing.


You will not find a zero, that will shoot all of the loads you listed, to the same spot.
__________________
Quote:
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
AK_Stick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 15:04   #12
arushus
Biggest Member
 
arushus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NE Oklahoma
Posts: 2,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
Well, then you need to limit yourself to a choice of your ammo selection, or change your zero, depending upon what you're doing.


You will not find a zero, that will shoot all of the loads you listed, to the same spot.
Ya I do understand that, I was just listing them all so I could get an idea from you nice folks as to which I could expect to see the best groups with. I suppose what I will do is zero my sights with the ZQ3313 ammo, and then experiment with the cheap plinking ammo to see which one will shoot the best with that zero...
__________________
Glock 20SF Gen 3
Glock 27 NiB-X Gen 3
Glock 19 Gen 4
Spike's Tactical Enhanced CHF 16" Mid-Length M4
These Red Letters Help me find my post!!!
arushus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 15:05   #13
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 15,051
Here's another way to look at it: The Trijicon ACOG scope has drop markings from 100 to 800 yards. There is only one model ACOG for ALL 5.56-chambered guns, regardless of barrel length, ammo, twist, etc. Drop differences just don't amount to all that much. You're talking maybe 3 inches difference at 300 yards.

But regardless, zero with your chosen defensive ammo and you're all set.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 10-12-2012 at 20:23..
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 15:09   #14
arushus
Biggest Member
 
arushus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NE Oklahoma
Posts: 2,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
Here's another way to look at it: The Trijicon ACOG scope has drop markings from 100 to 800 yards. There is only one model ACOG for ALL 5.56-chambered guns, regardless of barrel length, ammo, twist, etc. Drop differences just don't amount to all that much. You're talking maybe an inch or two difference out to 300 yards.
Thank you for your help, I do appreciate it!

Just out of curiosity what ammo do you use for defense, and what ammo do you use if youre trying to shoot the tightest groups?
__________________
Glock 20SF Gen 3
Glock 27 NiB-X Gen 3
Glock 19 Gen 4
Spike's Tactical Enhanced CHF 16" Mid-Length M4
These Red Letters Help me find my post!!!
arushus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 15:22   #15
AK_Stick
AAAMAD
 
AK_Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alaska, again (for now)
Posts: 20,771
Send a message via AIM to AK_Stick Send a message via Yahoo to AK_Stick
if you want to deer hunt with it, I'd say pick a 75 grain load, and stick with it. One load, one zero, cover everything.
__________________
Quote:
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
AK_Stick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 15:50   #16
arushus
Biggest Member
 
arushus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NE Oklahoma
Posts: 2,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
if you want to deer hunt with it, I'd say pick a 75 grain load, and stick with it. One load, one zero, cover everything.
I agree, assuming my barrel will stabilize it. Id really like to be able to shoot MK262 ammo, but it is just too expensive for me to buy it and it turn out to be a waste because my barrel wont stabilize it.
__________________
Glock 20SF Gen 3
Glock 27 NiB-X Gen 3
Glock 19 Gen 4
Spike's Tactical Enhanced CHF 16" Mid-Length M4
These Red Letters Help me find my post!!!
arushus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 16:02   #17
AK_Stick
AAAMAD
 
AK_Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alaska, again (for now)
Posts: 20,771
Send a message via AIM to AK_Stick Send a message via Yahoo to AK_Stick
Well, I don't know much about hunting deer with 5.56 in small grain loads, but I'd look at the 55 grain TSX barnes bullet really hard.


But again, I'd find a load I like, and stick with it.
__________________
Quote:
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
AK_Stick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 16:25   #18
NeverMore1701
Platinum Membership
Fear no evil.
 
NeverMore1701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Amarillo, Tx
Posts: 30,353
The 62gr Fusions are supposed to do really well
__________________
And if we should die tonight
We should all die together
Raise a glass of wine
For the last time
NeverMore1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 17:57   #19
arushus
Biggest Member
 
arushus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NE Oklahoma
Posts: 2,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverMore1701 View Post
The 62gr Fusions are supposed to do really well
Ive heard that also...
__________________
Glock 20SF Gen 3
Glock 27 NiB-X Gen 3
Glock 19 Gen 4
Spike's Tactical Enhanced CHF 16" Mid-Length M4
These Red Letters Help me find my post!!!
arushus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 18:49   #20
ithaca_deerslayer
Senior Member
 
ithaca_deerslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 19,639
I'm no expert, and am shopping for my first AR.

But basically, with rifles in general, the first thing to do is find a load that groups well, out of the types of bullets you'd generally want for your purpose.

Buy one box of each, sit down at the bench with your gun, put 5 shots on target with load A at 100 yards. Go get that target, write the load on it, letting gun cool, and put up a fresh target. 5 shots with load B. Etc, with all your loads you bought. Take a break and then do it again, and again.

Average the group size and see which load is most consistant and has smallest group size.

As long as shots are on paper, don't worry about where the shots hit. Once you pick the load, then zero in with that one, and go buy some more boxes of that specific load.

Keep the partial boxes of the failed loads for your next gun, or give them to your brother-in-law
ithaca_deerslayer is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 16:54.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,284
353 Members
931 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31