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Old 10-23-2012, 10:59   #1
fairfax1
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Virginia: Most number of legally owned machine guns in US

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...y.html?hpid=z4

ROANOKE, Va. — Virginia leads the nation in the number of legally owned machine guns that are fully automatic, according to federal figures.

There were 30,220 registered fully automatic machine guns in Virginia as of March. Florida had the second-highest total with 29,128, followed by California with 28,774. Nationally, there were nearly 500,000 registered machine guns, according to an annual report from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

“Machine guns actually are a really good example of why strong gun laws work,” said Daniel Vice, senior attorney with the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

More story available on the link above.
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:02   #2
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"machine guns that are fully automatic"
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Old 10-23-2012, 13:08   #3
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Fully really truly automatic, no (shoe)strings attached?
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Old 10-23-2012, 14:46   #4
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I'm floored that Kalifornia is number three on the list.
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Old 10-23-2012, 15:13   #5
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They're really really really really really automatic. . . . .
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Old 10-23-2012, 15:18   #6
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I'm floored that Kalifornia is number three on the list.
I would assume most of the machine guns in California are owned movie prop masters and technical consultants.

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Old 10-23-2012, 15:27   #7
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Now somebody just needs to reform "Lee's army of northern Virgina" and march on the capitol
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Old 10-23-2012, 15:45   #8
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So those number include machine guns owned by police depts? If so, that skews the real numbers because those post 86 can not be owned by us mere civilians.
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Old 10-23-2012, 15:49   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PVolk View Post
I'm floored that Kalifornia is number three on the list.

Population:

Virginia 8.1M+
California 37.7M+

What are CA's Class III laws like?
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Old 10-23-2012, 16:04   #10
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Originally Posted by Gallium View Post
Population:

Virginia 8.1M+
California 37.7M+

What are CA's Class III laws like?
To be honest I would be surprised if private citizens are allowed to own a class III weapon. I would venture to say it's the po-po that have them.

http://www.ehow.com/how_6767042_clas...alifornia.html
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Old 10-23-2012, 16:05   #11
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http://www.shootersdepot.com/legalities.html
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Old 10-23-2012, 16:43   #12
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They have them at every gun show here in Va. And, yes people buy them. Our gun shows here are awesome!
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Old 10-23-2012, 17:19   #13
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Originally Posted by concretefuzzynuts View Post
They have them at every gun show here in Va. And, yes people buy them. Our gun shows here are awesome!
So are you saying people walk in and buy a Class 3 weapon and walk out with it?
Or....
Are you saying people go in buy the Class 3 weapon, wait the 6 to 9 months for the Tax Stamp to come back.
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Old 10-23-2012, 17:37   #14
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Originally Posted by GWG19 View Post
So are you saying people walk in and buy a Class 3 weapon and walk out with it?
Or....
Are you saying people go in buy the Class 3 weapon, wait the 6 to 9 months for the Tax Stamp to come back.
I'm saying if you want to buy a full auto weapon here, go thru the legal steps of a fee and wait time you can own a full auto.

I've been to gun shows in other states that don't offer such. Ours are bountiful of suppressors, autos and "collectables". All available with state and federal law approval.
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Old 10-23-2012, 18:01   #15
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Originally Posted by Lee-online View Post
So those number include machine guns owned by police depts? If so, that skews the real numbers because those post 86 can not be owned by us mere civilians.
Only privately owned fully auto weapons are registered with the ATF by the tax stamp process, a government agency does not need to register a weapon with another government agency.

Last edited by ray9898; 10-23-2012 at 18:18..
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Old 10-23-2012, 18:04   #16
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Old 10-23-2012, 19:27   #17
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Only privately owned fully auto weapons are registered with the ATF by the tax stamp process, a government agency does not need to register a weapon with another government agency.
So a class 3 dealer gets in a full auto to show to the local LEO. Doesnt he transfer it on a form 3. Wouldnt these form 3's be included in the "registered" weapons. Likewise, wouldnt there be paperwork when a government agency buys them. Some kind of paperwork trail to show who owns them. (unless they go to the Mexican cartel)
I am just trying figure out the numbers in this article. CA doesnt allow NFA and this article shows them having a huge amount, They have to be counting all the state government owned ones.
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Old 10-23-2012, 19:33   #18
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A quick look at the atf site and a government agency transfers them on a form 5.

I bet all transfers are counted in their stats.

Scary that CA has so many full autos but they are probably in the governments hands.
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Old 10-23-2012, 21:18   #19
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I'm floored that Kalifornia is number three on the list.
Me too. I was under the impression that NFA Class 3 items were a big no-no in California.
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Old 10-23-2012, 22:58   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
Only privately owned fully auto weapons are registered with the ATF by the tax stamp process, a government agency does not need to register a weapon with another government agency.
Everytime we use a flashbang, I have to fax the BATFE and tell them....pretty sure they have a list of all the stuff we have.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:35   #21
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Everytime we use a flashbang, I have to fax the BATFE and tell them....pretty sure they have a list of all the stuff we have.

To the worst of my knowledge flashbangs are classified as destructive devices which is a beast of a slightly different nature.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:44   #22
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Everytime we use a flashbang, I have to fax the BATFE and tell them....pretty sure they have a list of all the stuff we have.
I never said they didn't. I am sure they have a list of where every auto weapon produced each year goes to ensure none are sold to restricted persons. I said our weapons are not registered using the tax stamp process as the pre '86 weapons are.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:54   #23
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To the worst of my knowledge flashbangs are classified as destructive devices which is a beast of a slightly different nature.
Yeah, they are DD's, but still fall under NFA. We've also got a couple of SBR/SBS thingies (that's the technical term) laying around that I'm responsible for as the armorer. But, mainly, I've got a decent amount of bangs and stingball grenades.

Ray - I took your statement to mean that we didn't need to register anything with BATFE. No, we're exempt from the NFA as an agency, but all the items that fall under the NFA are on a list at BATFE. When one is expended, I have to let them know, so they take it off the registry. Since my agency is too cheap to use real bangs for anything, I don't contact them all that much.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:19   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-online View Post
So a class 3 dealer gets in a full auto to show to the local LEO. Doesnt he transfer it on a form 3. Wouldnt these form 3's be included in the "registered" weapons. Likewise, wouldnt there be paperwork when a government agency buys them. Some kind of paperwork trail to show who owns them. (unless they go to the Mexican cartel)
I am just trying figure out the numbers in this article. CA doesnt allow NFA and this article shows them having a huge amount, They have to be counting all the state government owned ones.
The department owns the guns carried by the LEO just as the military owns what is issued to a soldier. Same as you, the local LEO cannot just go down to the gun store and buy a full auto weapon.

Also, full auto was not always as hard to get in CA as it is now because of the federal regulations in '86 and their state AWB push. Owners prior to that were grandfathered in and there still is a legal process on the books to obtain a state permit although I have not heard of any being issued. 28k out of 37 million people is really not that many.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:09   #25
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Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
Only privately owned fully auto weapons are registered with the ATF by the tax stamp process, a government agency does not need to register a weapon with another government agency.
Incorrect.

My department has many NFA weapons. They are all registered (and must be) with the BATFE on essentially the same type of form that a private person uses. We do not have to pay a transfer tax.

When I did a long overdue inventory of all out firearms, I asked the BATFE to send me a list of ALL NFA weapons they thought we had. Let's just say that their record keeping is under par.
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