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Old 10-30-2012, 10:04   #41
Glock36shooter
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Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
Seriously?

They invented no such thing. It's precisely this line of thinking that prevents them from accepting "Jesus" as the Messiah.

And your view of the Torah is as skewed as a typicla Christians is.
I know... the way you interpret it is the right way.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:07   #42
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Originally Posted by Roering View Post
There were over 600 "laws" at the time. Do you keep them all?
Do you strain all of your drinks?
And when was the last time you made a burnt offering or sacrificed a lamb?
Do you really believe that Christ kept them all? All of them?
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:35   #43
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
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You forgot to address the question regarding whether you are dishonest or committing a logical fallacy.

I think the evidence is pointing to: both.
Other opinions without any support deleted.
Well, now, we've gone from evidence to proof.

And, to call your "sense of humor" childish would require that I apologize to children everywhere.

I guess my pointer to the article Mark P. Shea: Reading the Bible Like a Grownup was directed at the wrong audience. It would require an actual Grownup to read it, or at least someone who aspired to think like one.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:39   #44
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You guys can't even agree what the book says because you've all chosen different interpretations hashed out by YOUR chosen "Scholars". This is the problem with the bible. You really can twist it any way you like. And sometimes you have to in order to keep it from collapsing in on itself due to blatant contradictions and down right errors and misinformation. Mix that with a morality that you'd be arrested for conducting yourself by and you have a religious text that is best left in the sands of the ancient desert it was manufactured in.

We aren't animals like these "Holy" men were. We can't stone a woman to death because she has sex with whomever she wants. We're simply more civilized than the animals that wrote the bible. We know better than the ideal that homosexuals choose to be homosexual. It's simply as natural as a man being attracted to a woman. We know burning bushes and snakes don't freaking talk. These are fairy tales. Why did the Jews invent a messiah to come and undo the law? Because even they knew the old ways were barbaric. Towards the beginning of the common era the Jews had a bit of a change of heart. They were leaving their ways of sacrifice and law behind. They began surrounding their philosophy around caring for your neighbor and doing right by your fellow man. That this was the way to honor God. Especially after losing their temple for good. With no way to connect with god via a holy place... they began to believe that it was through kindness and charity that one connects with God. This is the idealism that was floating about during the time of Christ. It's no surprise that's what he preached. And if he is most of what history makes of him... he probably was their greatest preacher or messenger. However he probably was a little insane since he thought he was the son of God and had magical powers. But perhaps that's just legend and myth. Jesus would have been a far more impressive man had he not thought himself God in the flesh. That's just the mind of a mad man.
Step away from the bong.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:45   #45
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Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
Why do you keep posting non-contextual posts?

No one is clinging to the Mosaic Covenant. I'm stating exactly what the Bible says.

Plain and simple once again. New Covenant. Same Torah. Just like Messiah said Himself in Mathew 5:17-21.

btw, the fullness of this has NOT happened yet. We are in a betrothal period. It doesn't happen in full until His return at Yom Teruah. One of those unfulfilled Feast Days you don't keep.
What you are doing is twisting the semantics. Your philosophy is that all of the ceremonial laws such as circumcision and feast days from the old covenant are required in the new covenant.

The Bible writers made it quite clear what the covenant laws were that were to be written on the heart in the New Covenant.


2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Hint: The tables of stone were the covenant of Ten Commandments which were the moral law, not the ordinances of the Law of Moses.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:12   #46
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Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
Well, now, we've gone from evidence to proof.

And, to call your "sense of humor" childish would require that I apologize to children everywhere.

I guess my pointer to the article Mark P. Shea: Reading the Bible Like a Grownup was directed at the wrong audience. It would require an actual Grownup to read it, or at least someone who aspired to think like one.
good point
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:53   #47
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Well, now, we've gone from evidence to proof.

And, to call your "sense of humor" childish would require that I apologize to children everywhere.

I guess my pointer to the article Mark P. Shea: Reading the Bible Like a Grownup was directed at the wrong audience. It would require an actual Grownup to read it, or at least someone who aspired to think like one.
+1

Another 'freethinking' nihilist has been owned
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:54   #48
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Your philosophy is that all of the ceremonial laws such as circumcision and feast days from the old covenant are required in the new covenant.
Those aren't ceremonial. Circumcision was around long before Sinai and the Feast Days haven't even all been fulfilled yet. They're about YOUR Messiah. Why don't you keep them? Has the definition of forever changed? Has heaven and earth passed away?

The only thing that's really changed is the Priesthood. I really want to understand your reasoning process that takes you from forever to ceremonial and done away with, without any support from the Bible.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:01   #49
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Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
Step away from the bong.
Well... how can I argue with such air tight logic? Again, insulting me does nothing to substantiate your claims that the bible means anything more than what it says. Trying to find meaning in a garbage pile will only get you dirty.

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Old 10-30-2012, 12:13   #50
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And, to call your "sense of humor" childish would require that I apologize to children everywhere.
This is only being insulting. It does nothing to prove your point. I get it... you agree with the way Shea twists scripture to agree with your point of view. Doesn't make it so. And insulting me further (while it might make you feel better) does nothing to make your point of view factual. And it does nothing to illustrate that the bible means anything other than what it actually says.

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I guess my pointer to the article Mark P. Shea: Reading the Bible Like a Grownup was directed at the wrong audience.
Probably yes. It still requires faith in Mr. Shea that the way he twists scripture to fit his point of view is actually correct. The fact is that you can find hundreds of blogs from hundreds of biblical "Scholars" that twist and turn scripture in different and fun ways. Doesn't make them correct. That you agree with them and insult me for rejecting it means nothing. It most certainly does nothing to make your claims factual. And given the hundreds of blogs claiming to understand the true message of the scripture outside of what it actually says point blank... the only real conclusion is one must take it at its word since a definitive interpretation does not exist. Definitive meaning accepted by all... not accepted by Schabesbert and his particular cult members.

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It would require an actual Grownup to read it, or at least someone who aspired to think like one.
Oh I read it. It requires a child to believe it.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:19   #51
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
This is only being insulting. It does nothing to prove your point. I get it... you agree with the way Shea twists scripture to agree with your point of view. Doesn't make it so. And insulting me further (while it might make you feel better) does nothing to make your point of view factual. And it does nothing to illustrate that the bible means anything other than what it actually says.



Probably yes. It still requires faith in Mr. Shea that the way he twists scripture to fit his point of view is actually correct. The fact is that you can find hundreds of blogs from hundreds of biblical "Scholars" that twist and turn scripture in different and fun ways. Doesn't make them correct. That you agree with them and insult me for rejecting it means nothing. It most certainly does nothing to make your claims factual. And given the hundreds of blogs claiming to understand the true message of the scripture outside of what it actually says point blank... the only real conclusion is one must take it at its word since a definitive interpretation does not exist. Definitive meaning accepted by all... not accepted by Schabesbert and his particular cult members.



Oh I read it. It requires a child to believe it.
Insulting,huh? I know how that feels. Has he cursed you, called you ignorant, lied to you about what he said................................why don't you tell us more about your lifestyle and then criticize ours?
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:25   #52
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Insulting,huh? I know how that feels. Has he cursed you, called you ignorant, lied to you about what he said................................why don't you tell us more about your lifestyle and then criticize ours?
I never said it bothers me that he insults me. Shows he's frustrated with me. And that's very human. But an insult, and this applies to us all, does nothing to prove you're right. What does my lifestyle have to do with Scherbert still not being able to factually substantiate that his take on scripture is the one true meaning of it all? You are ignorant. And I never lied about anything. That makes you the liar and not I. I also see that you enjoyed his insults towards me. Very Christian of you. Jesus would be proud.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:31   #53
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Do you really believe that Christ kept them all? All of them?
Doesn't appear so. He was confronted for doing work on the Sabbath. He also told a man he had just healed to pick up his mat on the Sabbath.

Like I said. Jesus was not so legalistic.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:33   #54
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Doesn't appear so. He was confronted for doing work on the Sabbath. He also told a man he had just healed to pick up his mat on the Sabbath.

Like I said. Jesus was not so legalistic.
If not then how did he fulfill the law? Does this not mean Christ sinned?
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:40   #55
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
This is only being insulting. It does nothing to prove your point. I get it... you agree with the way Shea twists scripture to agree with your point of view. Doesn't make it so. And insulting me further (while it might make you feel better) does nothing to make your point of view factual. And it does nothing to illustrate that the bible means anything other than what it actually says.



Probably yes. It still requires faith in Mr. Shea that the way he twists scripture to fit his point of view is actually correct. The fact is that you can find hundreds of blogs from hundreds of biblical "Scholars" that twist and turn scripture in different and fun ways. Doesn't make them correct. That you agree with them and insult me for rejecting it means nothing. It most certainly does nothing to make your claims factual. And given the hundreds of blogs claiming to understand the true message of the scripture outside of what it actually says point blank... the only real conclusion is one must take it at its word since a definitive interpretation does not exist. Definitive meaning accepted by all... not accepted by Schabesbert and his particular cult members.



Oh I read it. It requires a child to believe it.
Your whole argument boils down to this:
Many people have different opinions, therefore all of them are meaningless.

I guess that's much easier than actually exploring the evidence.
It allows you to remain blissful in your hedonistic lifestyle since, after all, ignorance is bliss.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:44   #56
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
I never said it bothers me that he insults me. Shows he's frustrated with me. And that's very human. But an insult, and this applies to us all, does nothing to prove you're right.
It may have been insulting, but my comments were based on factual observances.

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What does my lifestyle have to do with Scherbert still not being able to factually substantiate that his take on scripture is the one true meaning of it all?
Absolutely nothing. Your lifestyle doesn't have anything to do with ANY non-factual statement.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:54   #57
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Your whole argument boils down to this:
Many people have different opinions, therefore all of them are meaningless.

I guess that's much easier than actually exploring the evidence.
It allows you to remain blissful in your hedonistic lifestyle since, after all, ignorance is bliss.
You're still not substantiating that you and your cult's particular twisting of scripture is the one true interpretation to rule them all. You're just attacking me personally. Which is fine it doesn't bother me. But it does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to show that your interpretation is correct.

To come back to point we are talking about christ saying that the law will remain until heaven and earth disappear. These are not poetic concepts in the bible. These are concepts meant to be considered realistically. Do you think when Christ talks about the kingdom of heaven he means the temple? Do you think when the bible says God created the earth and heavens it means the temple? No, of course not. So what would lead you to believe that is what Christ is referring to here? Easy answer... because it creates a contradiction and you need to twist to avoid that contradiction. Out of all the passages in the bible where Christ or God speak about the Earth and Heaven... this is the place where that actually mean the temple... Suuuuuuure... that sounds perfectly reasonable.

I get it that it is more than likely poetic license when a passage says the land flows with milk and honey. But do you think that when Christ is referring to heaven and earth... he means the temple? Or was he speaking to his followers and letting them know in no uncertain terms that the law would stand so long as Earth and Heaven exist? I know it doesn't agree with your view of scripture and that it poses a contradiction and your buddy shea's twisting of scripture helps to ease that burden. But you've done absolutely nothing to substantiate that Shea's interpretation is the one unifying interpretation that will be accepted by all until the end of time. So yeah... until that happens... it is just an opinion. And we still have no reason to read anything more into the bible than what it says in this instance. Especially in passages where a gentle twist can create and entirely new off-shoot of what Christ meant when it comes to keeping the law.

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Old 10-30-2012, 12:55   #58
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It may have been insulting, but my comments were based on factual observances.


Absolutely nothing. Your lifestyle doesn't have anything to do with ANY non-factual statement.
You've still proven nothing.
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Old 10-30-2012, 13:15   #59
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To come back to point we are talking about christ saying that the law will remain until heaven and earth disappear.
Please provide an actual quote, NOT just your intrepretation of what this means.

Quote:
These are not poetic concepts in the bible. These are concepts meant to be considered realistically. Do you think when Christ talks about the kingdom of heaven he means the temple? Do you think when the bible says God created the earth and heavens it means the temple? No, of course not. So what would lead you to believe that is what Christ is referring to here? Easy answer... because it creates a contradiction and you need to twist to avoid that contradiction. Out of all the passages in the bible where Christ or God speak about the Earth and Heaven... this is the place where that actually mean the temple... Suuuuuuure... that sounds perfectly reasonable.
See, you go right into pedantic mocking, rather than reasoned discourse.

Quote:
I get it that it is more than likely poetic license when a passage says the land flows with milk and honey. But do you think that when Christ is referring to heaven and earth... he means the temple? Or was he speaking to his followers and letting them know in no uncertain terms that the law would stand so long as Earth and Heaven exist? I know it doesn't agree with your view of scripture and that it poses a contradiction and your buddy shea's twisting of scripture helps to ease that burden. But you've done absolutely nothing to substantiate that Shea's interpretation is the one unifying interpretation that will be accepted by all until the end of time. So yeah... until that happens... it is just an opinion. And we still have no reason to read anything more into the bible than what it says in this instance. Especially in passages where a gentle twist can create and entirely new off-shoot of what Christ meant when it comes to keeping the law.
You can certainly spilll a lot of ink (electrons?) and say nothing other than
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Old 10-30-2012, 13:21   #60
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
I never said it bothers me that he insults me. Shows he's frustrated with me. And that's very human. But an insult, and this applies to us all, does nothing to prove you're right. What does my lifestyle have to do with Scherbert still not being able to factually substantiate that his take on scripture is the one true meaning of it all? You are ignorant. And I never lied about anything. That makes you the liar and not I. I also see that you enjoyed his insults towards me. Very Christian of you. Jesus would be proud.
Actually I hoped that you would realize how childish your insults were. You apparently believe this behavior is acceptable and apologizing is not something you do. So according to your thought process, when you insult me (as you did in this post) , I am frustrating you!

Your lifestyle??????????????????? no comment
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