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Old 11-01-2012, 08:37   #101
scccdoc
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so all we have to do is say checkmate and we've won huh? G36shooer

Hey pal, when it's over, it's over................
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:18   #102
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Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
Atheism and charity
Concerning the issue of atheism and charity, charitable giving by atheists and agnostics in America is significantly less than by theists, according to a study by the Barna Group:

“ The typical no-faith American donated just $200 in 2006, which is more than seven times less than the amount contributed by the prototypical active-faith adult ($1500). Even when church-based giving is subtracted from the equation, active-faith adults donated twice as many dollars last year as did atheists and agnostics. In fact, while just 7% of active-faith adults failed to contribute any personal funds in 2006, that compares with 22% among the no-faith adults.[1] ”

A comprehensive study by Harvard University professor Robert Putnam found that religious people are more charitable than their irreligious counterparts.[2][3] The study revealed that forty percent of worship service attending Americans volunteer regularly to help the poor and elderly as opposed to 15% of Americans who never attend services.[4][5] Moreover, religious individuals are more likely than non-religious individuals to volunteer for school and youth programs (36% vs. 15%), a neighborhood or civic group (26% vs. 13%), and for health care (21% vs. 13%).[6][7]

Arthur C. Brooks wrote in Policy Review regarding data collected in the Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey (SCCBS) (data collected by in 2000 by researchers at universities throughout the United States and the Roper Center for Public Opinion Research):

“ The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior. For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions.[8] ”

ABC News reported the following:

“ ...the single biggest predictor of whether someone will be charitable is their religious participation.
Religious people are more likely to give to charity, and when they give, they give more money: four times as much. And Arthur Brooks told me that giving goes beyond their own religious organization:

"Actually, the truth is that they're giving to more than their churches," he says. "The religious Americans are more likely to give to every kind of cause and charity, including explicitly non-religious charities."[9]


Given that atheistic evolutionary thinking has engendered social darwinism and given that the proponents of atheism have no rational basis for morality in their ideology, the immoral views that atheists often hold and the low per capita giving of American atheists is not unpredictable.


Just now?
Yay statistics... something that can be verified with the right documentation. Please provide the populations size, sample size, questions asked, regions from which the samples were taken, Characteristics of samples in each region. That ought to give us somewhere to start with figuring out if these statistics are actually accurate or not. I mean I understand that if they say it on the internet... especially on christian web sites or the news that it has to be true but I'd still like to look at how they arrived at their numbers.

You are highly guilty of cherry picking information that only agrees with your world view. It's a little intellectually dishonest don't ya think?

Last edited by Glock36shooter; 11-01-2012 at 09:19..
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:28   #103
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Yay statistics... something that can be verified with the right documentation. Please provide the populations size, sample size, questions asked, regions from which the samples were taken, Characteristics of samples in each region. That ought to give us somewhere to start with figuring out if these statistics are actually accurate or not. I mean I understand that if they say it on the internet... especially on christian web sites or the news that it has to be true but I'd still like to look at how they arrived at their numbers.

You are highly guilty of cherry picking information that only agrees with your world view. It's a little intellectually dishonest don't ya think?
Still twisting.........the original question was to you concerning charities , believers vs atheists. An atheist confirmed and so did you , that atheists are not organized and do not contribute as much ACCORDING TO DOCUMENTATION. BTW, did you delete some posts,lol
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:02   #104
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The obstinate ones need it spelled out very plainly. So, I took a course of deliberate strategy for him to incriminate himself . I delighted in his documented contradictions. He should have learned from Musky.
Please point out where I have contradicted myself. My only error was speaking for all of Atheism and I quickly acknowledged and admitted my error. Something that you have refused to do with the mountain of contradictions that your kooky religion poses. Contradictions that you have yet to reconcile and simply blame it on my twisting of scripture when I present what it says in the bible itself. It is you and your buddies that insist that there are hidden messages in the bible that require a different understanding that only you and those who think like you possess to truly understand what the bible is saying. Something none of you can either substantiate or evidence in any universal way other than providing internet links to other people who think as you do. Or possibly people who do your thinking for you.

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Thank you for the excellent documentation. nail in the coffin.....................
Until the numbers and how they were calculated can be verified... it's just words and numbers that mean nothing. I know... you'll believe anything that agrees with your world view... even magic books filled with archaic nonsense. At least this time you're believing in real math... though we've yet to see if it's accurate or not.

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Aren't you getting dizzy? all the spinning and twisting? LOL
No, it's really easy to write when it's true. You and your buddies are the only ones doing any twisting. Insisting the bible says things that aren't in its pages. That we don't understand it when it's message is clearly written for all to see. You need it to mean something more, something you can't pin down... because if you take it for what's on the page... it's crap. Ancient nonsense written by savages.

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Then atheist COULD organize to help their fellow man, is that against the atheist "non-belief system
Atheists do help constantly. Something you choose to keep ignoring. The fact is we'd have to give everything we have to our names and then some to match what mindless church people give. Not because you're more generous or more caring or better people... but because there are more of you genius. There's like an 8 to 1 ratio of Christian to Atheist in this nation. It's getting closer to 7 to 1 because you guys are losing ground and more people are waking up. But still, 7 people can simply raise more money than 1 can (assuming they are all of equal means). See statistics can kinda mean whatever you want them to mean if you skew them the right way.

For example... if we take a charity (Let's call it Charity A) and the giver is required to write down their religious belief with their donation. 1,000 people randomly come and give $20.00 each. Well just by sheer odds of there being at LEAST a 7 to 1 Christian/Atheist ratio... it would appear that Christians gave 7 times more. But that isn't reality. Each person gave the same. You could do the same thing with White and African American people. If each gave the same amount it would appear that White people are more charitable than African Americans... but that's not true is it... African American's are a minority... just like Atheists.

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I applaud you for your support, I just don't understand why atheist aren't making a concerted effort. I see no reason.............
They are, we just don't see a reason to advertise it like you believers. We do it simply for the sake of doing it. We don't need to make sure other people see us doing it.

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I don't do charity work in exchange for "eternal reward , either.
Yeah ya do. You've admitted you were a lower quality person before you gave in to Christian Brainwashing.

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In my little church, we do not have a mandatory preachin' program for the people we help.
Then you are failing to spread the gospel. You are failing as a Christian. Scherbert said it himself... your work is spreading the gospel. If you aren't doing that to each and every person you meet... you are not glorifying god the way you're supposed to. I hear Hell is hot this time of year.

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If it is a charity, then what is all this talk about NOT organizing and doing things individually?
You're simply not understanding what we're telling you. I donate to charities every year. The National Ataxia Foundation gets a large portion of my donations for the year.

When you say organizing what you're really saying is why don't we have a church where we gather. We simply don't need one. Atheists do have groups where we meet and discuss issues. Often times we plan community events or fund raisers for causes we fell are important. This year my local little group raised a pile of money to buy needy kids school supplies. We also raised money for the school meal program. Some of the kids only get to eat at school because they're parents are either too poor to sorry to take care of them. So we make sure there is a means for them to get meals even during school breaks and vacations.

But we didn't put a big banner up saying "Brought to you by Atheism!" because we don't need to have people see us being charitable. In fact most people just assume we're church folk and say "God Bless You" to which we just nod and say "You're Welcome".

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Geesh, 36 is so altruistic
Thanks.

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Hey pal, when it's over, it's over................
That's true. And if by over you mean you're giving up... I accept your surrender. I can keep doing this forever. It's not like you pose a challenge or anything.

Scherbert... now he can be a challenge sometimes because he's a smart guy, his BS is well practiced, and he is armed with a ton of internet links that agree with his world view. So he literally places a spider web of nonsense in front of you that you have to take apart before you can actually get to him. But you... you're just silly. You stick your fingers in your ears and shout la la la la la I've wooooon I've woooon like a child and then declare yourself the victor. Easily handled. People like are handled with just a little smacking of logic and reason to the face. Your replies basically amount to "Nuh Uh!"
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:15   #105
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Still twisting.........
Not at all. Statistics have to be verified to be considered accurate. You can't just say them and blam they're true.

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the original question was to you concerning charities , believers vs atheists.
No I think you originally were making that case that churches give more. Which no one has disagreed with. But there are simply more religious people in the country. Comes down to head count... not who is more charitable on an individual basis. Like AG mentioned... Bill Gates is a non-believer. Do you think in your lifetime you'll give to charity as much as he has in one year? I seriously doubt it. But that doesn't mean he's a better man than you (He probably is though)... it just means he has more to give.

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An atheist confirmed and so did you , that atheists are not organized
We don't have churches or gathering places. I am part of a local Atheist/Agnostic/Free Thinker/Humanist group here where I live. We often organize to help the community. We often organize to protest churches activities too. With the help of the ACLU we recently got a school to stop leading prayers before board meetings and school functions. Everyone is free to pray silently of course... but there is no longer an official prayer led by any school employee. So we are organized on some levels... but we move around very quietly. But thee isn't a giant Atheist Organization that speaks for us all. It simply doesn't work that way.

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and do not contribute as much ACCORDING TO DOCUMENTATION.
Documentation that has yet to be verified. If that is your standard for proof... no wonder you're a Christian.


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BTW, did you delete some posts,lol
Don't think so. I retracted one statement to you in another thread because that was during our little heated discussion and I was trying to hold my tongue... but you quoted it before I retracted it so it's still out there. Why? did you see some deleted or something?
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:27   #106
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Then atheist COULD organize to help their fellow man, is that against the atheist "non-belief system...
I applaud you for your support, I just don't understand why atheist aren't making a concerted effort. I see no reason.............
I'm not perfectly clear on your point or objection or hope. Is it that atheists should be forming their own charitable atheist organizations to compete head to head with charitable religious organizations to see who wins?

Is it not enough for individual atheists to be charitable, or to form irreligious charitable organizations that have no specific goal of doing "God's work", but that also don't have any specific goal or stamping out religion?

Back to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Bill Gates, an atheist, created this foundation and has distributed somewhere around $30 billion into it. Warren Buffet, another atheist, has also contributed around $30 billion into it. Bill Gates has announced his intention of giving away 95% of his wealth to charity. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet also founded the Giving Pledge urging other wealthy individuals to pledge to give half their wealth to charity. Mark Zuckerberg, another atheist, has also signed the Giving Pledge. Through this pledge, Gates and Buffet have recruited over 80 other American billionaires to follow suit and pledge to contribute at least 1/2 of their wealth to charity.

So this is a great example of atheists organizing to help mankind, and encouraging others to do so, although the resulting foundation does not appear to meet your criteria for being an atheist organization.

So again, I'm not clear on what is your point, objection or hope.

-ArtificialGrape
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:36   #107
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scccdoc... AG just made you look like a fool.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:43   #108
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Still twisting...
Affirmative.

That's what trolls do.

Troll: -someone who posts inflammatory messages online with the intent of provoking emotional response, or harassment, trashing, or abuse of their target.

In Scandinavian folklore, trolls were often bent on mischief and wickedness.

In Chinese, a troll ("bai mu", literally "white eye") had no pupils, just the white section of the eye which cannot see. So trolls just blindly talk nonsense and folly to try to upset others.

In Portuguese, especially the Brazilian kind, trolls are "pombos enxadristas" ("chessplayer pigeons") who defecate on the tabletop, drop the pieces, and simply fly, claiming victory.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:44   #109
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I'm not perfectly clear on your point or objection or hope. Is it that atheists should be forming their own charitable atheist organizations to compete head to head with charitable religious organizations to see who wins?

Is it not enough for individual atheists to be charitable, or to form irreligious charitable organizations that have no specific goal of doing "God's work", but that also don't have any specific goal or stamping out religion?

Back to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Bill Gates, an atheist, created this foundation and has distributed somewhere around $30 billion into it. Warren Buffet, another atheist, has also contributed around $30 billion into it. Bill Gates has announced his intention of giving away 95% of his wealth to charity. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet also founded the Giving Pledge urging other wealthy individuals to pledge to give half their wealth to charity. Mark Zuckerberg, another atheist, has also signed the Giving Pledge. Through this pledge, Gates and Buffet have recruited over 80 other American billionaires to follow suit and pledge to contribute at least 1/2 of their wealth to charity.

So this is a great example of atheists organizing to help mankind, and encouraging others to do so, although the resulting foundation does not appear to meet your criteria for being an atheist organization.

So again, I'm not clear on what is your point, objection or hope.

-ArtificialGrape
Apparently it is good that atheists give individually , I simply ask "why"?

So Gates , Zuckerman, and Buffet ARE organizing........... So which is it? Organizing or not? You are not clear. You may want to refer to Schabesbert's post.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:47   #110
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Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
Atheism and charity
Concerning the issue of atheism and charity, charitable giving by atheists and agnostics in America is significantly less than by theists, according to a study by the Barna Group:

“ The typical no-faith American donated just $200 in 2006, which is more than seven times less than the amount contributed by the prototypical active-faith adult ($1500). Even when church-based giving is subtracted from the equation, active-faith adults donated twice as many dollars last year as did atheists and agnostics...
On first read, this seems plausible. After adjusting for "church-based giving", "active-faith adults" made charitable contributions of around $400 in 2006 compared to $200 for atheists/agnostics.

It would be interesting to see what that $400 average would drop to if all the self-reporting, but not active worship attending, Christians were included in the average. I.e. average Christian versus agnostic/atheist.

End of the day, I'm not trying to compete with anybody -- I do what I can, and I encourage others (regardless of religious belief/disbelief) to do the same. In light of Sandy, now would be a good time. Anyone can make a donation to the American Red Cross online, or by texting REDCROSS to 90999 to make a $10 donation.

cheers,
-ArtificialGrape

Last edited by ArtificialGrape; 11-01-2012 at 11:11.. Reason: cleaned up orphaned quoted tag
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:52   #111
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And if you have any left please donate here...

http://www.ataxia.org
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:08   #112
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On first read, this seems plausible. After adjusting for "church-based giving", "active-faith adults" made charitable contributions of around $400 in 2006 compared to $200 for atheists/agnostics.

It would be interesting to see what that $400 average would drop to if all the self-reporting, but not active worship attending, Christians were included in the average. I.e. average Christian versus agnostic/atheist.

End of the day, I'm not trying to compete with anybody -- I do what I can, and I encourage others (regardless of religious belief/disbelief) to do the same. In light of Sandy, now would be a good time. Anyone can make a donation to the American Red Cross online, or by texting REDCROSS to 90999 to make a $10 donation.

cheers,
-ArtificialGrape
Me either, but conflicting info has been given by atheist. The whole point is........... Regardless of belief, helping those less fortunate is a good thing
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:09   #113
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Apparently it is good that atheists give individually , I simply ask "why"?

So Gates , Zuckerman, and Buffet ARE organizing........... So which is it? Organizing or not? You are not clear. You may want to refer to Schabesbert's post.
I just responded to Schabesbert.

There are (a) atheists who form irreligious charities (Bill Gates and his foundation). There are (b) atheists who contribute to irreligious charities (benefactors of Doctors without Borders or Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation). There are (c) atheists who organize atheist organizations (Richard Dawkins and his foundation). There are (d) atheists who contribute to atheist organizations (benefactors of Richard Dawkins Foundation or Freedom from Religion Foundation for example).

I'm not trying to be dense or argumentative, but I honestly don't know what is your point, objection or hope. Is it that there should be more of a, b, c or d above?

-ArtificialGrape
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:10   #114
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Affirmative.

That's what trolls do.

Troll: -someone who posts inflammatory messages online with the intent of provoking emotional response, or harassment, trashing, or abuse of their target.

In Scandinavian folklore, trolls were often bent on mischief and wickedness.

In Chinese, a troll ("bai mu", literally "white eye") had no pupils, just the white section of the eye which cannot see. So trolls just blindly talk nonsense and folly to try to upset others.

In Portuguese, especially the Brazilian kind, trolls are "pombos enxadristas" ("chessplayer pigeons") who defecate on the tabletop, drop the pieces, and simply fly, claiming victory.
WOW... Hello Pot... My name is Kettle.

You know... I make it point to not place members on ignore. But I lose an IQ point every time I read one of your mindlessly stupid posts.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:10   #115
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scccdoc... AG just made you look like a fool.
I don't think so, but you desperately hope someone can bail you out.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:16   #116
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I don't think so, but you desperately hope someone can bail you out.
No need. You've yet to respond to anything I've said in an intelligent and substantive way. You're responses equate to "Nuh Uh!". I can tell you're running out of steam too. At this point you're just running around proclaiming victory rather than engaging me.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:17   #117
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I just responded to Schabesbert.

There are (a) atheists who form irreligious charities (Bill Gates and his foundation). There are (b) atheists who contribute to irreligious charities (benefactors of Doctors without Borders or Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation). There are (c) atheists who organize atheist organizations (Richard Dawkins and his foundation). There are (d) atheists who contribute to atheist organizations (benefactors of Richard Dawkins Foundation or Freedom from Religion Foundation for example).

I'm not trying to be dense or argumentative, but I honestly don't know what is your point, objection or hope. Is it that there should be more of a, b, c or d above?

-ArtificialGrape
It has been stated, and I have been given conflicting answers from the atheists. Don't you guys know for sure? Again refer to Shabesbert's post. Are you saying ONLY atheist donate to or participate in these organizations?

Last edited by scccdoc; 11-01-2012 at 11:48.. Reason: added question
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:18   #118
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It has been stated, and I have been given conflicting answers from the atheists. Don't you guys know for sure? Again refer to Shabesbert's post.
Wow... it's like you can't read or something.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:36   #119
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Wow... it's like you can't read or something.
lol, checkmate............call for more help
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:56   #120
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No need. You've yet to respond to anything I've said in an intelligent and substantive way. You're responses equate to "Nuh Uh!". I can tell you're running out of steam too. At this point you're just running around proclaiming victory rather than engaging me.
I went through this junk point by point with you. Then twist and squirm, you contradicted yourself numerous times. I have had enough of your foolishness. checkmate

Last edited by scccdoc; 11-01-2012 at 11:58..
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