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Old 11-02-2012, 09:54   #141
Glock36shooter
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
If nothing else, this thread has shown that people can read the same words and come up with a variety of different interpretations none of which are consistent with each other. Thusly, how can one assume that this is the divine word of god? Shouldn't it be incorruptible? Shouldn't god (of all beings) be able to convey what he wants of us in a manner that is clear and concise and not easily misunderstood?

Some theist will say that it is and it's the other interpretations that are corrupt or the result of evil forces at work trying to lead people astray. I would remind that person that they have no more proof that their interpretation is correct than anyone else. You believe your opinion because you feel that it is right (and so does everyone else).
The one defense of Christ's fulfillment that I always find funny is "He has to have fulfilled it... otherwise his sacrifice wouldn't mean anything and we wouldn't be saved." As if his death having meaning is an absolute fact therefore the other must be true. It's another example of assuming your conclusion and reasoning from their to enforce it.

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Old 11-02-2012, 10:23   #142
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Well the argument put forth here has been that Jesus said the law would remain until all was fulfilled and that he fulfilled the law by never breaking with it once.

Now we know this not to be true because Jesus disregarded the law more than once in favor of his own ideology of love and peace.

There are also some that say his sacrifice was the fulfillment. When these laws were written they were never meant to be removed or replaced with a new covenant. Schabasbert (I hope I spelled it right) seems to speak much about the "Spirit" of the law yet I think he forgets that those who established this covenant NEVER intended for it to go away... and that is the true spirit of the law. It was to bind man to God for all time. THAT was the spirit of it.
I agree that the law is to bind us to God for all time. Reference to Scripture stating otherwise was not spoken directly from Jesus, and those speaking on account of what Jesus said is completely suspect. To that point there is very little written in the Bible that was spoken directly from Jesus. This can easily be noticed when reading or looking through a Bible with Jesus's direct word highlighted in red. I see nothing that Jesus said directly that indicates abolishment of the Mosaic laws.

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Old 11-02-2012, 10:24   #143
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Old 11-02-2012, 17:48   #144
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Awww again... insulting me doesn't substantiate your position. Even you have to admit snowbird is nuts.

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Old 11-03-2012, 10:53   #145
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Giving a 'perfect ten' to the bashing of Christianity (which gave us American freedom) and, implicitly, to the promotion of Islam (which gives us war, slavery, and blind hatred -today's total of deadly Muslim attacks since 9/11 has reached 19,862), hmmmm...let's look at some of the company you keep.

A British Muslim writer, Iqbal Siddiqui, is hailing the Mohammed-video riots, and claiming that Muslims are winning the war against freedom of speech. OTOH, a Christian writer, long ago, wrote, "Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?" (Galatians 4:16)

So congratulations, dhimmis! You're doing such a bang-up job of deconstructing Christian Western freedom.
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Old 11-03-2012, 13:25   #146
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Giving a 'perfect ten' to the bashing of Christianity (which gave us American freedom) and, implicitly, to the promotion of Islam (which gives us war, slavery, and blind hatred -today's total of deadly Muslim attacks since 9/11 has reached 19,862), hmmmm...let's look at some of the company you keep.
How many million Native Americans did the Christians slaughter giving us that "American Freedom". You guys are no better. You see something you want and you take it... regardless of how many folks you gotta kill.
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Old 11-03-2012, 14:06   #147
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How many million Native Americans did the Christians slaughter giving us that "American Freedom". You guys are no better. You see something you want and you take it... regardless of how many folks you gotta kill.

I think he meant the bashing of Christianity gave us American freedom. A much more accurate statement and this broken clock has got to find his nut at least once today.
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Old 11-03-2012, 14:39   #148
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I think he meant the bashing of Christianity gave us American freedom. A much more accurate statement and this broken clock has got to find his nut at least once today.
I can't imagine a universe where snowbird would think bashing christianity gave us American Freedom.

I read it as him saying bashing christianity (christianity being what gave us american freedom) is supporting Islam. Sounds closer to what he spews non stop in here.
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Old 11-03-2012, 20:21   #149
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hmmmm...let's look at some of the company you keep.
Snowbird, you just can't put any two names together in a post and claim that the association is valid.
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Old 11-03-2012, 20:28   #150
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Giving a 'perfect ten' to the bashing of Christianity (which gave us American freedom) and, implicitly, to the promotion of Islam (which gives us war, slavery, and blind hatred -today's total of deadly Muslim attacks since 9/11 has reached 19,862), hmmmm...let's look at some of the company you keep.

A British Muslim writer, Iqbal Siddiqui, is hailing the Mohammed-video riots, and claiming that Muslims are winning the war against freedom of speech. OTOH, a Christian writer, long ago, wrote, "Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?" (Galatians 4:16)

So congratulations, dhimmis! You're doing such a bang-up job of deconstructing Christian Western freedom.
Christianity did NOT give us American freedom. I'm not sure where you are getting this idea, but it's wrong. Further more my perfect 10 was in regards to the comment made towards you. You are just as radical as a radical Muslim except the shoe is on the other foot.
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Old 11-03-2012, 20:36   #151
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Christianity did NOT give us American freedom. I'm not sure where you are getting this idea, but it's wrong.
I've said this before, but it's worth repeating. The only form of government put forth as an ideal model in the bible is that of a (hopefully) benevolent monarchy. The idea of individual liberty and religious freedom appears nowhere in this "book". All the christians here (if they were true to their faith) should be looking to re-institute a feudalistic governing system (I'm convinced that many of them secretly are).
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Old 11-03-2012, 20:56   #152
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Old 11-03-2012, 23:20   #153
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Easy guys. There is a little too much truth being written here. The Christian's heads just might explode.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:38   #154
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I've said this before, but it's worth repeating. The only form of government put forth as an ideal model in the bible is that of a (hopefully) benevolent monarchy. The idea of individual liberty and religious freedom appears nowhere in this "book". All the christians here (if they were true to their faith) should be looking to re-institute a feudalistic governing system (I'm convinced that many of them secretly are).
There is no conflict between Christianity and freedom of religion. In fact, most of the Founding Fathers were Christians; that's why we have freedom. Freedom never evolved in Islamic or communist-atheist societies -in fact, those places lie (for exp, claiming that Americans murdered millions of Natives) and commit genocides in order to suppress Christianity.

Ancient Israel was theocracy, but it wasn't intended to be a model for the rest of the world. Nations with self-styled theocracy, such as Inquisition-ruled Spain, were unfree and nightmarish, under the thumb of power-hungry, sinful men. But remember Spain had been mostly conquered by Muslims who ruled for centuries, thus negatively influencing their way of thinking.

In the New Testament, Romans 13: 3-4, we see government's responsibilities outlined: punish evil deeds, reward good deeds, and render justice. Notice that it does not say that government is to enforce any particular system of worship.

God gave us freedom of choice (Genesis 13: 8-12, Joshua 24:15), even if we choose wrong. It is the Holy Spirit, not government, who changes hearts (John 6:63).

Only Jesus saves.

God's personal relationship with you is beyond government control (Matthew 15: 7-8).
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:37   #155
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Easy guys. There is a little too much truth being written here. The Christian's heads just might explode.
Deleted my post. I figured it had a little more truth they they could bear and would possibly lead to the thread being locked...

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Old 11-04-2012, 08:12   #156
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:07   #157
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The Biblical ideal for government, and the one that you will all live under if you happen to live that long, will be a Monarchy in which every citizen obeys all the laws happily and willingly because doing so will eliminate all war, famine, and sickness.

The Torah brings blessing when obeyed and cursing when disobeyed. Hence, why the world is so screwed up right now and He has to come back and clean the slate.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:37   #158
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Deleted my post. I figured it had a little more truth they they could bear and would possibly lead to the thread being locked...

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This thread is done anyway. We've absolutely substantiated that Christ did not abolish nor did he fulfill the Mosaic laws. This is why the usual suspects have turned tail and run... of course that comment will probably ding their christian pride and bring them back. Nevertheless your post was eloquent and filled with a powerful truth. I think it's a shame you deleted it.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:48   #159
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(for exp, claiming that Americans murdered millions of Natives) and commit genocides in order to suppress Christianity.
You're a liar. No one said this. Christians murdered millions of native americans plain and simple. Like it or not. This is a fact.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:50   #160
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The Biblical ideal for government, and the one that you will all live under if you happen to live that long, will be a Monarchy in which every citizen obeys
Sounds like something a terrorist would say

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The Torah brings blessing when obeyed and cursing when disobeyed. Hence, why the world is so screwed up right now and He has to come back and clean the slate.
Sounds like something a terrorist would say.
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