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Old 11-08-2012, 00:45   #101
unit1069
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Yeah, I addressed this.

For some reason, some of yall think if you can find an exception, the trend falls apart. It doesnt work that way.

Yes, (as I said) the Left will destroy a person. The Right will hate a group.

Come on people. We are talking raw numbers (votes) We are not speaking in absolutes we are speaking in majorities. When we play that game, the Democrats are the party of inclusion and the Republicans are the party of exclusion. The demographics of who votes for who proves this.

If you people refuse to undertand the situation for what it is, you wont be able to fix it.
This is exactly how your entire story line fell apart, Rabbi.

You started off with the distinction between principle and issues and your entire thrust has now devolved into nothing more than identity politics, your defense of which can only lead to the conclusion that you accept Balkanization as a means to an end. You ask the impossible of us when you attempt to define "inclusion" as acceptance dependent solely upon adherence to ideological purity instead of (among other things) diversity of thought.

And as far as the recent vote goes, Obama received about 1.5 million votes less than he received in 2008 while Romney received about 10 million votes less than McCain did. The percentage breakdown for women, Latinos, blacks, and the young were roughly the same yesterday as in 2008. Republicans just didn't turn out the way their models predicted, for whatever reason.
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Old 11-08-2012, 00:49   #102
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Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
This is exactly how your entire story line fell apart, Rabbi.

You started off with the distinction between principle and issues and your entire thrust has now devolved into nothing more than identity politics, your defense of which can only lead to the conclusion that you accept Balkanization as a means to an end. You ask the impossible of us when you attempt to define "inclusion" as acceptance dependent solely upon adherence to ideological purity instead of (among other things) diversity of thought.

And as far as the recent vote goes, Obama received about 1.5 million votes less than he received in 2008 while Romney received about 10 million votes less than McCain did. The percentage breakdown for women, Latinos, blacks, and the young were roughly the same yesterday as in 2008. Republicans just didn't turn out the way their models predicted, for whatever reason.
Prepare to be talked down to.
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Old 11-08-2012, 00:56   #103
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This is exactly how your entire story line fell apart, Rabbi.

You started off with the distinction between principle and issues and your entire thrust has now devolved into nothing more than identity politics, your defense of which can only lead to the conclusion that you accept Balkanization as a means to an end. You ask the impossible of us when you attempt to define "inclusion" as acceptance dependent solely upon adherence to ideological purity instead of (among other things) diversity of thought.

And as far as the recent vote goes, Obama received about 1.5 million votes less than he received in 2008 while Romney received about 10 million votes less than McCain did. The percentage breakdown for women, Latinos, blacks, and the young were roughly the same yesterday as in 2008. Republicans just didn't turn out the way their models predicted, for whatever reason.
You want to keep hating groups of people because they are different....you will keep getting the same results.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:01   #104
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Prepare to be talked down to.
What is talking down to people?

Me trying to have a frank conversation about the lack (some perceived and some real) inclusion of the Republican party and how that probably needs to change.

Or...

You, who keeps saying over and over again "They are idiot socialist who just want to take"

Irony and again, you illustrate the point I am trying to make very well.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:01   #105
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You want to keep hating groups of people because they are different....you will keep getting the same results.
Sheesh, Rabbi! I never expected you to make such a baseless ad hominem argument! I don't hate any group and I don't believe you can find anything in what I've written to justify your sad insult.

Looks like 427 has your number, all right.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:04   #106
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Sheesh, Rabbi! I never expected you to make such a baseless ad hominem argument! I don't hate any group and I don't believe you can find anything in what I've written to justify your sad insult.

Looks like 427 has your number, all right.
The general *you.*

And again, you made a point with specific people against large groups of people and want to say "see....they all do it...." Which is true but doesnt solve the problem or change the overall reality and perception of the issue.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:10   #107
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What is talking down to people?

Me trying to have a frank conversation about the lack (some perceived and some real) inclusion of the Republican party and how that probably needs to change.

Or...

You, who keeps saying over and over again "They are idiot socialist who just want to take"

Irony and again, you illustrate the point I am trying to make very well.
I'm countering each of your many different arguments with different examples and you keep moving your goal posts.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:24   #108
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I'm countering each of your many different arguments with different examples and you keep moving your goal posts.
That's what's happening when playing his game. Take it as a learning process.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:47   #109
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:53   #110
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They ignore there are millions of average everyday Americans, many who are educated and successful, who find them self in the middle. They may agree economically, agree with the Republicans military policy but they are turned off by some of the hard line stances on civil freedoms.
Wow. Ya think?

Can you tell us some examples of hard line stances on civil freedoms? I see them all the time on GT.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:24   #111
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I find Rabbi's posts interesting, and spot on. I think you can even look at GTGNG and see this.

In general, I wouldnt describe myself as a Republican. I am more of a libertarian. I see many many instances where people on GT are about "freedom" but have lines like "play stupid games win stupid prizes", make comments about if people hesitated to vote for Romney because he was Mormon, (and sorry Rabbi and JMS) worry about where we will a candidate will put Israel because they are the "chosen people", etc, etc.

I believe in personal, social, and economic freedom. I see the biggest threats to these as taxes and then govt officials that I am likely to deal with. Typically these are more "local variety" of govt official but I do deal with TSA often.

The right is very far tolerant. The is also not so tolerant but more inclusive.

As an example, on GT we generally support unlimited 2A rights. Now, go back and read the OWS threads on GT and see how tolerant the right was towards these peoples 1A rights. Sure, there were "reasons" why they needed to be terminated.

I saw on the news that last weekend in Clear Creek County there was an eviction. People (OWS crowd) was standing in the street to prevent police for doing the eviction. Two counties worth of SWAT showed up because one person had a BB gun. There was no threats made. No charges were filed. But they have video of people being thrown to the ground with ARs pointed at them and arrested. Again, NO CHARGES were even filed. The police said they couldnt tolerate a situation where a gun was present. And this in a state where CCW is legal and easy.

We see people taken out of 20-30 cars at gun point, hand cuffed, vehicles searched because a bank robber had the GPS tracked to that general area. http://kdvr.com/2012/06/02/aurora-po...bbery-suspect/

If the democrats didnt want to take my money so badly, I would vote for them because I cannot stand what the right is doing with police powers (TSA, stops like I indicated above), their religious views, etc.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:30   #112
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I see both sides of this debate as legitimate.

-In order to gain the numbers to win, a party must be more inclusive and more accepting.

or


-To maintain ones principals and standards, it is difficult to justify inclusion of opposing views.

Perhaps now would be the time to begin looking at finding the charismatic, electable Libertarian candidate for 2016. After all the Libertarian party is the ultimate inclusive party with the least restrictive views.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:40   #113
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I see both sides of this debate as legitimate.

-In order to gain the numbers to win, a party must be more inclusive and more accepting.

or


-To maintain ones principals and standards, it is difficult to justify inclusion of opposing views.

Perhaps now would be the time to begin looking at finding the charismatic, electable Libertarian candidate for 2016. After all the Libertarian party is the ultimate inclusive party with the least restrictive views.
Except the religious right is not exactly into not having restrictive views....

And that is where the money it....far right and far left put up the money
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:46   #114
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Except the religious right is not exactly into not having restrictive views....

And that is where the money it....far right and far left put up the money
And this is why the GOP is dead in the water.

The left has the big tent.

Get used to democratic rule for a loooonnnngggg time.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:57   #115
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Perhaps Rabbi should change his name to "Syncophant". After all, one who will say or do anything, and has no real principles guiding him, should be using a more apt screen name.

Perhaps one of these days, you'll discover that the Spock approach to the real world doesn't work. You can't quantify and put everything in a neat litte series of numbers.

As for the comment 264 made - suck it, buddy. Some of us have morals, and aren't going to stop doing the right thing merely because it isnt popular anymore. When you see me beating a female down because she took off her hijab in public, then you can compare me to the Wahabbis. Until then, stick it in your ass.
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:06   #116
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For the record, it matters not who is elected President. Not in the long term. I answer to someone a bit higher than whomever zis residing in the White House. I'll live my life, and retain my morals, in accordance with my beliefs.

The race for the White House has become nothing more than another popularity contest, similar to the ones we endured in high school. That much is obvious from the past two elections. If I remember correctly, the largest Democratic block of voters was the youngest. You really think the average 18 year old kid has a clue about the issues at stake?

And the suggested remedy for this is to become more like the Democrats? I'm guessing few in here are country music fans - there's a rather apt song that goes nicely with this train of thought.

And Dana -

Please, stay in Deutschland. Go find yourself in trouble with the local law, and let me know how that works out for you. Methinks you'll be begging for a return ticket to America. After all, der Polezei have a rather....unique....history. And it wasn't all that long ago, either.
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:12   #117
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I don't have time to read through the new posts (SOME of us have to work ) so if it's already been said...TOUGH!, but...

assuming (for a moment) Rabbi is right that the reality doesn't matter, just the perception...

wouldn't it make more sense to change the perception through advertising than to change who (you say) we are?

I envision an ad campaign several weeks before the next election where a long suffering suburban housewife with a worried look on her face is facing the due bills. she looks outside to see her fat, lazy husband drooling over their new bass boat, the high end ATV, giant smoker/grill, jet skis, etc...

"you wouldn't run your OWN house into debt like this..."

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Old 11-08-2012, 06:26   #118
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:46   #119
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(and sorry Rabbi and JMS) worry about where we will a candidate will put Israel because they are the "chosen people", etc, etc.
Your swastika is showing...

BTW your forgot to mention that you have a Porsche in this thread, you feeling ok?
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:05   #120
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Great post, the populace is against the party that wants to legislate who they love and what someone does with their bodies. Maybe during the heyday of the KKK the republicans actually spoke for the majority but in today's times people enjoy personal freedom. The republican party and it's agenda is becoming less and less relevant and they just don't seem to get it....except for the day after the election.

You DO realize that the KKK was all Democrat....just as Democrats created and enforced all the Jim Crow laws.

Or did they teach you ANY history at Rap Brown Hight School?
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