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Old 11-08-2012, 08:56   #126
Carrys
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Ya know, what I keep hearing is that I must/have to change my views/beliefs and change who I want sharing my beliefs simply because those who voted the opposite from me won.

Our Country has gone through many such upheavels in it's past and despite how some numbers chart may explain things for a few......I suspect there'll be some wild goings on in it's future.

And when we get like Greece, which we most certainly will......because politics are concerned with the short term win.....nothing more, ever, it'll show.

Truth is, those who wish to receive from those who produce has grown in large numbers, and those with a dog in the fight were allowed to vote on the rules of the fight. That's the thing I didn't hear in the great explaination, funny.

Anyway, IMO.......when we do get to the point of Greece there will be only one thing to do to ensure they don't spread, don't cost us even more, nor taint the newer generation. Elininate them. Not my business to say how or when but we must drive them from our society.

I'm too old to care what others think of me for those beliefs but I am old enough to have seen and experienced what those fine nice "others" have done to our Country.......all in the name of receiving free stuff.

It took a lot of hard work and many trials for us to build this Country, but only a few decades of greed to send it in a downward sprial. Some foks want to say, "Hey that's change........everything undergos it." and that's simply their excuse for seeking what they want for themselves. I am ashamed of a lot of folks in my Country......doesn't bother me what they think of me.....when they've made even half the personal sacrifices for this ountry that I have, I may listen. Until then, they can kiss ol' rusty. Doing the right thing has just had it's meaning changed 180 degrees.

I won't abide by that change.


Don't care what anyone else believes, don't care what points I prove for others, don't care what anyone else thinks......I've been shown that simply doesn't matter anyway..........I'm going to continue to ensure that my family is ready for what is with a doubt from me coming.

I'm just happy that I'll be dead before I live to see just what "changes" I gave my body to bring about.

My Daughter isn't gay, she isn't hispanic, and she isn't far afield in the left way of thinking. I do worry about her life, she thinks one should work for what one gets, that other than in an emergency... no one should live off another either.




Yeah, don't know when......don't know how.........though I'm fairly certain I know why.......we are in for another Reveloution. The first one showed us we can do it I suppose. I don't kid myself about how hard it would be.......but as I've told my daughter, I'd rather know she went trying to rebuild our Country than to be this society's milk cow......as I now am.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:10   #127
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I am a right leaning, conservative person. I am on your side. I fight for your side but because I am not just like you and I want to actually win and include as many people as I can on our side...you dismiss me and call me names.
Not everyone reverts to calling you names to disagree with you or your beliefs my friend.

I personally don't want "as many people as I can get on our side" sir, I want as many as will believe and think/feel as I do on my side. Willy Nilly that I am, I feel that's a much better way to be than to do as the other side and to promise everyone everything just to get their support.

If your way were to be followed, me thinks we would simply end up with both parties promising everyone everything.............no thank you. I would much rather have one right minded thinker ( IMO) than a hundred so so believers whoare in it just for what they can get.

I take heart in the fact that the pendulum swings both ways over time. In time, don't know exactly when, the greedy will be hunted down and......well, won't be pretty. We'll either stand strong again or we won't. It'll take time for certain......but my bet's on we will.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:25   #128
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I guess this is why I ended up voting Libertarian.

R's preach "smaller government"...and usually walk the walk.
But then on certain ISSUES, they go skipping off into LA-LA land.

More specifically, they go into peoples' bedrooms (DOMA), into their emails/phone calls/private lives (Patriot Act), and into women's ******s (babies don't vote, women do).

It's very difficult to present yourself as being in favor of a smaller government, yet still have a government that's large enough to stick its nose into all those aspects of peoples' lives.
So it comes across as hypocritical. Or to be more blunt: Lying.

The most important ISSUE to me is: Smaller Government.

A smaller federal government means not only no bail-out of GM, it also means no Americans on Mars (and I'm a space nut). It's sacrificing not only what you want, but the willingness to give up what I want as well, in order to achieve the primary goal: smaller federal government.

That's my issue.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:19   #129
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Your swastika is showing...

BTW your forgot to mention that you have a Porsche in this thread, you feeling ok?
Because I could care less about someones religion and dont think religion has anything to do why we should support Israel? I think we should support them because they are the single actual "democracy" (we dont live in a democracy..we are a constitutional republic...so I use the term vaguely) where the citizens of the country are allowed self determination. Turkey the closest second to them and we also support them for the same reasons.

You seem to think anyone who doesn't support your religion is against it. Your religion is your business; not mine. You sexual preference is your business' not mine. If you like chocolate ice cream that is your business not mine.

You seem to get confused why I support some countries and governments and not others.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:37   #130
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Because I could care less about someones religion and dont think religion has anything to do why we should support Israel? I think we should support them because they are the single actual "democracy" (we dont live in a democracy..we are a constitutional republic...so I use the term vaguely) where the citizens of the country are allowed self determination. Turkey the closest second to them and we also support them for the same reasons.

You seem to think anyone who doesn't support your religion is against it. Your religion is your business; not mine. You sexual preference is your business' not mine. If you like chocolate ice cream that is your business not mine.

You seem to get confused why I support some countries and governments and not others.
Here is the problem with the Republican party. They think/feel that this country should be run by the steerings of their religious views. That is the error, or folly.

I grew up in a nothern baptist church. My family was extremely involved. I was raised to believe that abortion is wrong. Morally, I more or less agree. Politically, it has no place in our platform. Abortion is legal, currently (Roe v. Wade). If you feel, morally, that it should be illegal: then get out there and drum up the support you need, and take the time to get a good case, with merit, up to your state's supreme court. What we should be fighting against, is having to pay for them.

I'd like to be able to include the Libertarians as part of the Republican platform, as well as the religious right. But if I had to choose between them, the religious folks can go. They cause more infighting in our platform than any other group. We need to unite behind the Constitution, and what it stands for; not what your particular religion says is right. If we can't ever become united as a party, and figure out enough principles to agree on and promote, then we'll never do it with the Dems. This country will never again be united.

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Old 11-08-2012, 10:41   #131
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But if I had to choose between them, the religious folks can go. They cause more infighting in our platform than any other group. We need to unite behind the Constitution, and what it stands for; not what your particular religion says is right.
I agree with this. Of course that makes me a nazi, communist, socialist, anarchist, anti-authoritarian, religious zealot, robber baron, depending who you ask...
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:02   #132
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Because I could care less about someones religion and dont think religion has anything to do why we should support Israel? I think we should support them because they are the single actual "democracy" (we dont live in a democracy..we are a constitutional republic...so I use the term vaguely) where the citizens of the country are allowed self determination. Turkey the closest second to them and we also support them for the same reasons.

You seem to think anyone who doesn't support your religion is against it. Your religion is your business; not mine. You sexual preference is your business' not mine. If you like chocolate ice cream that is your business not mine.

You seem to get confused why I support some countries and governments and not others.
Please show me 1 quote in which I say Israel should be supported because Jews are the chosen people. Feel free to take your time to find 1 example please.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:06   #133
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No matter what choice you wish to make or ultimately make, there are forces opposed to that choice. You must endeavour to stand strong in your path. You must rise above the forces that, be they real or imagined, seek to hold you back from your dreams.
Its not the choice you make, its the ones that will now be made for you going forward.

Still looking for guidance on "rising above the forces" that may now be wielded by the IRS. Good luck rising above that.

They ain't here yet, but they're on the way.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:14   #134
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Please show me 1 quote in which I say Israel should be supported because Jews are the chosen people. Feel free to take your time to find 1 example please.
I responded to you calling me a nazi because I dont vote for candidates based upon their support for a "chosen people". I am not going through threads finding quote where people go on about supporting Israel because they are the "chosen people." I don't believe they are any more any less chosen than anyone else.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:08   #135
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I responded to you calling me a nazi because I dont vote for candidates based upon their support for a "chosen people". I am not going through threads finding quote where people go on about supporting Israel because they are the "chosen people." I don't believe they are any more any less chosen than anyone else.
And you're assuming because "Rabbi" and I are Jewish that we do, that we'd only support a candidate that felt the Jews are the chosen people? I've never spoken to another Jew about how we're the 'chosen people' nor is it something I believe, if you have a chip on your shoulder you have to deal with it, it's not based on something anyone ever said to you. "Let me in front of you, I'm a chosen person." The only thing I feel we've been chosen to do is to be the scape goat for failing societies, see Islam/Germany/etc. I support Israel A)because that is where I was born (dual citizenship) and B)because they are an ally to the US in the Middle East who's only interest is a stable supply of oil above all else, the US doesn't support Israel because of anything but that.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:13   #136
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the US doesn't support Israel because of anything but that.
And ho wmany threads have there been on GT that the USA must support Israel because they are the chosen people? I not saying you nor Rabbi have said this..just how common is it on GT. I would in general say its more the evangelical Christians that say this on GT.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:24   #137
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And ho wmany threads have there been on GT that the USA must support Israel because they are the chosen people? I not saying you nor Rabbi have said this..just how common is it on GT. I would in general say its more the evangelical Christians that say this on GT.
Once again we're scapegoated
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:29   #138
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Once again we're scapegoated
And observation is not scapegoating. I am saying what I have seen over and over. Do you deny this is a re-occurring theme on GT?
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Old 11-08-2012, 13:20   #139
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And there you go folks. A perfect example of the problem.

I am a right leaning, conservative person. I am on your side. I fight for your side but because I am not just like you and I want to actually win and include as many people as I can on our side...you dismiss me and call me names.

You are not some noble crusader, you are the proof that what I have been saying is correct. The moderates (and for sure the left) isnt wrong about the right being exclusive, it isnt perception, it is real. You just did it. You are fighting for it.

I am not crusading for anyone. I simply won't change my belief system to win a contest. THAT is what you advocate - THAT is your opinion as to what needs to happen in order to win the White House.

I refuse to change my moral viewpoint, in order to win a popularity contest. You will. How's that work at Temple on Sabbath? Try consulting a real rabbi as to what he believes is the right thing to do. I'm betting it has nothing to do with changing moral values in order to win a contest.

The Spock comment is based on your almost uncountable previous postings as to how math rules the world, and logic dominates all. It completely ignores the fact that people are emotional beings, and emotions factor into a large part of our decision making. Life in the real world isn't Spock, and you've obviously never watched the episodes where even Spock realizes that emotions have a valid place in life.

If that hurts your feelings, oh well. I've been around here long enough to see your point of view, and to know that I disagree. We'll leave it at that. I don't particularly care about the opinion of a dilettante who plays cop part time because he's bored, and thinks I should change my morals to win an election.

I'm guessing you missed the reference to a song in my previous post - do a search for Aaron Tippin's "You've Got to Stand for Something". It fits.

Again, I will never change my morals or ethical viewpoint for anyone. Not to make them happy, nor to help win an election. If that means the R's fade into obscurity, so what? As I mentioned, and as the OP's username implies, I am held accountable to a much higher power than whomever is President (although I'm not Jewish, the OP would imply for his religion). While I am worried for the future of our country, taking it further down a road of hedonism and moral turpitude will not solve any problems.

I "do" laugh quite a bit at the folks who seem to think it's a new fad for the R's to be the "morality police". Does no one remember the "Just Say No" campaign of the 80's/90's? The drama that went on between music producers and the enforced labeling of CD's back in the 90's? Hell, go back to the 50's and look at the differences from then to now.

Tell me when life was better for Americans. Then, with moral standards that were adhered to - or now, with moral relativism being the order of the day.
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:12   #140
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Because I could care less about someones religion and dont think religion has anything to do why we should support Israel? I think we should support them because they are the single actual "democracy" (we dont live in a democracy..we are a constitutional republic...so I use the term vaguely) where the citizens of the country are allowed self determination. Turkey the closest second to them and we also support them for the same reasons.

You seem to think anyone who doesn't support your religion is against it. Your religion is your business; not mine. You sexual preference is your business' not mine. If you like chocolate ice cream that is your business not mine.

You seem to get confused why I support some countries and governments and not others.
Supporting Israel is not about a religion although there are those here in the USA who are stupid enough to think that. Its all about their geographical location, common enemies and the fact that the USA needs a means of testing their new weapons software. Having Israel as its proxy testing lab is a fantastic opportunity....my Israeli Agency boss once said to me " listen...you only THINK your ICBM can land on Moscow, you dont KNOW they can do that. You need to shoot one into Moscow to see if they can really do that"
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:29   #141
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Rabbi, I always enjoy reading your posts.

P.S. Could you send me an ounce or two of whatever it is you smoke.
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Old 11-08-2012, 15:03   #142
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After every major election, the losing party/candidate and their supporters/haters begin to decipher what went wrong. Two days after this election, the info from the voting public is starting to trickle out. Some information may help determine why voter turnout was less. It will take weeks/months to have even a reasonable educated guess as to 'what happened'.

This is an interesting note, an article I read last night....it was a female 'think tank' type person who opined that the Hispanics voted Democrat, not because of the immigration issue, but because of the freebies (I paraphrase). Is it true?...could be..it was a very interesting article. Things like this and voter stats will help develop a clearer picture over time.

I say all this, there isn't one or two reasons why Romney lost, but a cornucopia of things, some we may eventually figure out, but at this time.....we just don't know. Could it be some of the things here posted? Yep....but know one really knows...at this time.

So.....its back out on the streets, doing what I did on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, etc.....knowing from a political standpoint, there will fights in the future...some I will be winner...some I won't. But an important thing, for me is, I will be involved. Just my $.02.



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Old 11-08-2012, 15:28   #143
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After every major election, the losing party/candidate and their supporters/haters begin to decipher what went wrong.
Here's a start.
Political Issues
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Old 11-08-2012, 16:50   #144
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Your swastika is showing...
Political Issues

It has been a while since I meditated.

Are you sure you are not refering to a Hackenkreuz?

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BTW your forgot to mention that you have a Porsche in this thread, you feeling ok?
This is my truck.

Political Issues

The picture is at Camp Hale (google it).
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Old 11-08-2012, 23:25   #145
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I am not crusading for anyone. I simply won't change my belief system to win a contest. THAT is what you advocate - THAT is your opinion as to what needs to happen in order to win the White House.

I refuse to change my moral viewpoint, in order to win a popularity contest. You will. How's that work at Temple on Sabbath? Try consulting a real rabbi as to what he believes is the right thing to do. I'm betting it has nothing to do with changing moral values in order to win a contest.

The Spock comment is based on your almost uncountable previous postings as to how math rules the world, and logic dominates all. It completely ignores the fact that people are emotional beings, and emotions factor into a large part of our decision making. Life in the real world isn't Spock, and you've obviously never watched the episodes where even Spock realizes that emotions have a valid place in life.

If that hurts your feelings, oh well. I've been around here long enough to see your point of view, and to know that I disagree. We'll leave it at that. I don't particularly care about the opinion of a dilettante who plays cop part time because he's bored, and thinks I should change my morals to win an election.

I'm guessing you missed the reference to a song in my previous post - do a search for Aaron Tippin's "You've Got to Stand for Something". It fits.

Again, I will never change my morals or ethical viewpoint for anyone. Not to make them happy, nor to help win an election. If that means the R's fade into obscurity, so what? As I mentioned, and as the OP's username implies, I am held accountable to a much higher power than whomever is President (although I'm not Jewish, the OP would imply for his religion). While I am worried for the future of our country, taking it further down a road of hedonism and moral turpitude will not solve any problems.

I "do" laugh quite a bit at the folks who seem to think it's a new fad for the R's to be the "morality police". Does no one remember the "Just Say No" campaign of the 80's/90's? The drama that went on between music producers and the enforced labeling of CD's back in the 90's? Hell, go back to the 50's and look at the differences from then to now.

Tell me when life was better for Americans. Then, with moral standards that were adhered to - or now, with moral relativism being the order of the day.
So, all of that to tell me how you think I am wrong because all I do is the math....in a thread where I talk about pretty much nothing but the emotional drive of people?

You have horrid aim. Post after past and you simply cant get a bead on what I am saying, You just want to throw in your feelings. I get that but taking ill placed swipes at me that do not connect doesnt help you.

BTW, did you really just bring up Spock, compare me to Spock and then admonish me for not really knowing what Spock was all about? Dude, are you high? Get a train of thought and stick with it.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:42   #146
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Here's a start.
Political Issues
No question....that is a part of it.




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Old 11-09-2012, 09:36   #147
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Thanks for this, Rabbi.

Your assertion that the US is a center/right country is ringing a little hollow today. Perhaps it is because of the issues vs. principle-oriented voting that you're talking about. I think, though, that the times have changed.

The skeleton in democracy's closet is that it is possible for the majority to be wrong. Electing Obama once could be construed as a mistake by gullible voters caught up in identity politics. Electing him twice, like it or not, is a clear signal from the electorate.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:19   #148
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For what little it may be worth (and probably little surprise), I completely agree with Rabbi's OP and the message he's trying to deliver. Unfortunately, I think that message is being missed, or purposely ignored, or perhaps twisted by folks that don't want to think.

True: humans are an emotional bunch. And that can cause a rift in discussions at times, specially when one side is thinking and the other is feeling.

This back-and-forth between Rabbi and you is a perfect example of that. One side is thinking, the other isn't.

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I simply won't change my belief system to win a contest.
If your belief system means excluding people because of what they believe, then you're going to lose. That's Rabbi's point. If you can't compromise enough to include others (folks of different sexual preferences, folks from different countries, folks from different social classes, etc), then those folks are going to vote against you, not with you.

And IF your beliefs also represent the Right, then the Right is going to continue to lose.

Which means we'll NEVER get to change the country, the laws, or anything else we may want to.

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I refuse to change my moral viewpoint, in order to win a popularity contest. You will.
This "popularity contest" as you put it is what puts leaders into office. And those leaders make regulations and laws that can have massive impacts on us now and in the future. Do you want to continue down the path we're on? Being taxed into oblivion to cover a debt we're never going to get out of? Then stick to your guns (morals) and continue to lose.

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How's that work at Temple on Sabbath? Try consulting a real rabbi as to what he believes is the right thing to do. I'm betting it has nothing to do with changing moral values in order to win a contest.
You're representing precisely what Rabbi is trying to argue against. Why drag religion into this?

Quote:
Again, I will never change my morals or ethical viewpoint for anyone. Not to make them happy, nor to help win an election. If that means the R's fade into obscurity, so what?
"So what" indeed. Well, as it turns out, some of us actually care

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Does no one remember the "Just Say No" campaign of the 80's/90's?
One technical bit of clarification: who was the primary "pusher" of that campaign in the 80s? I think her last name is... Reagan, isn't it?

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Tell me when life was better for Americans. Then, with moral standards that were adhered to - or now, with moral relativism being the order of the day.
Once again, you're completely missing Rabbi's point but actually making it for him at the same time.

jas
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Last edited by jasonvp; 11-09-2012 at 11:20..
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:00   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonvp View Post


Once again, you're completely missing Rabbi's point but actually making it for him at the same time.

jas
Much of this thread has been just that, people proving my point.

The left really does have a point about the hate of the right. Of course, the right has many points about the flaws of the left....but that doesnt change our faults. (that are destroying us)
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Old 11-09-2012, 16:02   #150
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I also do not think we are a center-right nation anymore. The black/hispanic total is almost 30%, and we know how they vote. Reagan couldn't have beaten Barry last Tuesday. Reagan got the same percentage of the white vote as McCain, but the white total declined from 85% to 74% in that time. Do you think that trend will change?

Hope you all have guns, ammo, and gold. I see this all ending in a severely devalued dollar, and eventually an authoritarian government of the left or right.

As far as the hate of the right, that is total nonsense. Romney didn't call Obama a 'bull*******', and his people didn't call Obama a murderer. Ask Sarah Palin about political hate.

A wise man observed that a long time ago in the US, what matters changed from character to personality. We saw the results of that Tuesday.
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