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Old 11-09-2012, 16:08   #151
Paul7
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Originally Posted by redbaron007 View Post
No question....that is a part of it.




red
Looks like about 47%.

Here's another prediction: In the next few decades, Texas will vote Democratic for president due to their growing hispanic population.
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Old 11-09-2012, 20:07   #152
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Rab

There is no such thing as UTOPIA! But there is such a thing as personnel responsibility.

I'm a ripoff-rep in Oklahoma. The reddist of the red. I would rather be dead than a dumb-o-crat give me give me idiot. And your damn sure going to pay for it!

But I violate the rip off reds to a point. The Feds need to be there,,, but small. Research early American politics. The dumb-o-crats have always pandered to the give me class. But as a renagade rip-off-rep. I only care about abortion. I could careless about the war on drug's, gay right's, the beaners need to be stopped. Invest in American Production. But GM and Mopar have built junk for years!


I'm just rambling,,,, sorry.

But ripples of Obummer being reelected has sent our co. owner in hiding. We saw him the day after election. My money is on,,,, Him selling the co. out, and walking. And who he would sell the company to is a joke of investment idiots. Even our customers are concerned. What will happen to this pool of experance if we all scatter.

Will I be out of a job for long? NO,,, With all my hernias and health problems born of wreckless youth. And i don't need you to play for my issues. I will have a positive cash flow. But my college educated wife was laid off her job of 15 years two months ago and has only had three real interviews. Cough, Cough,,, she has no real skills. Just near worthless paper....
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Old 11-09-2012, 21:55   #153
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Originally Posted by .264 magnum View Post
Right now across the world a Taliban member or a Saudi Morals Police officer is thinking the same thing.

Julius Sthreicher would admire your adherence to the hardline.
Yes, but the Taliban are winning. They have the long view. They will cut your throat in your sleep. They will kill your women and children. They will use your humanity and "liberalism" against you, eventually they will kill you.

I don't know if this is a good example. They are using a different path to winning.
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Old 11-09-2012, 22:20   #154
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The Republicans need to change their tactics, not their principles.

Why were they not screaming from the top of their lungs that voting for Obama proves that those people are bigots, like the democrats did when they said that voting people were voting for McCain because they did not want a "black" president. Clearly the people that voted against Romney did it because he is a Mormon. The religious bigotry is plain.

The Republicans should have rightly pointed out to blacks that it was the Republicans that freed the slaves. It was the southern Democrats that fought integration. Point out to the Latinos that the things that caused their families and millions like them to come to America was because of the Republican principles and issues of economic freedom and the equal opportunity that allows poor immigrants to to become rich through education and hard work or maybe just hard work. The principles that built what allows even our poor to live well compared to where they came from. The vast majority of Latinos did not come here with an eye to lounging on the welfare roles, but to work their tails off to send money home and bring their families out of true poverty.

The republicans would be better off stop talking about gays. Maybe they should talk about fighting for families and laws that support keeping families together. Two parent families are are a better support than a single parent family. A stable family may be more important than than that one parent is a mom and the other is a dad. I certainly believe a mom and a dad is better than two parents that are the same sex. Having a mom and a dad gives you a role model of each sex. Believe it or not there are natural biological differences between men and women. I have studied women very closely over decades and they are very different from me. Should Republicans support Gay civil unions? Maybe they should encourage them among gay parents for "the children". They should encourage dual adoptions so that if the union fails or one dies that they is a parent responsible for the child and not just the state. That is one of the major purposes of civil marriages.

Maybe Republicans should be more cut throat towards their opponents.

It is funny that minorities vote strongly Democrat when they tend to very strong conservative family values. The Republicans need to figure out how to engage them on that point.


The Republicans have the worst marketing ever.
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Old 11-10-2012, 15:00   #155
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Rabbi, throughout the thread you are absolutely correct.

I'm a center right voter who's thinks the current Republican bloc has too much baggage with regards to values I don't share... in spite of the fact that I share the a general principle of small government and fiscal responsibility.

I feel the Republican party as a whole has abandoned those principals.

- cavalier about environmental issues (environmental issues are no different to me than national defense)
- gay rights
- women's rights

Republicans are responsible for 2 unfunded wars and as far as I can tell refuse to be circumspect about why our economy went down during/after Bush.

I feel I could meet on a great deal of common ground with regards to economic issues --- but I'm not going to concede my, and others, individual rights just because certain, or even a majority of conservative, think they should be illegal.

I'd rather take my chances with the economy than give them the power to control my personal life.

The Republican party would be well served if it dumped the gay issue, moderated on abortion, got more serious about people gaming the stock market, and got more serious about the environment (rather than in complete rejection/denial of science).
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Old 11-10-2012, 16:03   #156
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
Rabbi, throughout the thread you are absolutely correct.

I'm a center right voter who's thinks the current Republican bloc has too much baggage with regards to values I don't share... in spite of the fact that I share the a general principle of small government and fiscal responsibility.

I feel the Republican party as a whole has abandoned those principals.

- cavalier about environmental issues (environmental issues are no different to me than national defense)
- gay rights
- women's rights

Republicans are responsible for 2 unfunded wars and as far as I can tell refuse to be circumspect about why our economy went down during/after Bush.

I feel I could meet on a great deal of common ground with regards to economic issues --- but I'm not going to concede my, and others, individual rights just because certain, or even a majority of conservative, think they should be illegal.

I'd rather take my chances with the economy than give them the power to control my personal life.

The Republican party would be well served if it dumped the gay issue, moderated on abortion, got more serious about people gaming the stock market, and got more serious about the environment (rather than in complete rejection/denial of science).
From your description, you are nothing close to Center Right.
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Old 11-10-2012, 16:06   #157
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Originally Posted by norton View Post
From your description, you are nothing close to Center Right.
Whatever you say... fiscally I am. Socially I'm libertarian.

I'm a voter Republicans could have... but not going to get in their current configuration. Now... they may feel that moving further right will get them further than making themselves palatable to people like me.

I suppose that's their wager to make.
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Jude 1:10 "But these people scoff at things they do not understand. Like unthinking animals, they do whatever their instincts tell them, and so they bring about their own destruction."

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Old 11-10-2012, 16:33   #158
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Originally Posted by norton View Post
From your description, you are nothing close to Center Right.
also... you're saying that the "right" is okay with unfunded wars and people gaming financial sectors? You are for ignoring environmental issues, even though the costs of cleanup foisted on society, rather than the people who profit from the destruction are good for society? No different to me than the ponzi scheme known as social security.

This is what the right truly stands for?

My right is small government, libertarian, and generally limited powers except in things that are of national interest.
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Old 11-10-2012, 17:03   #159
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
- cavalier about environmental issues (environmental issues are no different to me than national defense).

got more serious about the environment (rather than in complete rejection/denial of science).
If you are a Libertarian you would recognize that the EPA is an overreaching, freedom stopping, job preventing, foreign energy depending strong arm of the government. Some regulation is fine, the amount of power this agency of government has is too far reaching and has a strangle hold on freedom and the economy.

Maybe a LINO.

Quote:
We demand the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.
http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Lib...nvironment.htm

It's easy to call yourself something but believe differently. Do some research before you label yourself.
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Old 11-10-2012, 17:14   #160
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Originally Posted by concretefuzzynuts View Post
If you are a Libertarian you would recognize that the EPA is an overreaching, freedom stopping, job preventing, foreign energy depending strong arm of the government. Some regulation is fine, the amount of power this agency of government has is too far reaching and has a strangle hold on freedom and the economy.

Maybe a LINO.



http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Lib...nvironment.htm
They may be over-reaching, but the correct alternative isn't dissolution. These environmental issues are important to our long-term economy.

Also, congress doesn't have to leave it to the EPA. Ignoring climate change isn't going to make it go away; but that seems to be many peoples' response to it. "It doesn't exist". It does, and it is going to affect this country... and calling the EPA names and calling scientists names isn't going make it go away. We collectively stand to lose more than an individual has to gain.

IF some company is extracting a resource and screwing up everyone elses' water-- they don't have a right to do that. Being a libertarian doesn't mean one person's rights > another's.
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Old 11-10-2012, 17:15   #161
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Originally Posted by concretefuzzynuts View Post

It's easy to call yourself something but believe differently. Do some research before you label yourself.

It is also possible to share 80% of the values and be declared a pretender by ideologue.
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Old 11-10-2012, 17:21   #162
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
It is also possible to share 80% of the values and be declared a pretender by ideologue.
We should have no battle, but you drew first blood with me in another thread.

If I am an ideologue because I believe the EPA is bad for the country, so be it.
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Old 11-10-2012, 17:21   #163
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
Republicans are responsible for 2 unfunded wars
the democrats were knocking people over in their rush to say "me, too!" when the war funding was up for debate shortly after 9/11/2001.

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Old 11-10-2012, 17:48   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concretefuzzynuts View Post


http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Lib...nvironment.htm

It's easy to call yourself something but believe differently. Do some research before you label yourself.

Happens all the time. People label themselves 'right' or Right of Center but are in fact Left of Center with a sense of fiscal responsibility. The lack of self awareness is astonishing.

But it happens on the other side too. Many folks label themselves
liberal when in fact they are not according to their mindset. Check out this test

http://www.heyjt.com/Lib.htm

Time and time again I hear folks say after doing the test ... "wait, I'm not a liberal"

At the end of the day it doesn't matter anyway, label yourself as you wish, your actual vote is more defining than your self description.
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Old 11-10-2012, 18:02   #165
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post

Republicans are responsible for 2 unfunded wars and as far as I can tell refuse to be circumspect about why our economy went down during/after Bush.
our economy tanked because Chris Dodd and Barney Frank threatened the lending industry with severe sanctions if it didn't throw away common sense lending restrictions (like...making pretty sure the borrowers could repay the loan).

Bush warned Dodd and Frank several times that they were risking a catastrophe but alas...
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Old 11-10-2012, 18:27   #166
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
also... you're saying that the "right" is okay with unfunded wars and people gaming financial sectors? You are for ignoring environmental issues, even though the costs of cleanup foisted on society, rather than the people who profit from the destruction are good for society? No different to me than the ponzi scheme known as social security.

This is what the right truly stands for?

My right is small government, libertarian, and generally limited powers except in things that are of national interest.
First of all, what exactly is an unfunded war? Has their always been a savings account built up prior to every War the U.S. has been involved in?

Man made global warming is a charade, meant to destroy Capitalism.

If you think S/S is a ponzi scheme, thank the hero of liberals, FDR.
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:10   #167
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First of all, what exactly is an unfunded war? Has their always been a savings account built up prior to every War the U.S. has been involved in?

Man made global warming is a charade, meant to destroy Capitalism.

If you think S/S is a ponzi scheme, thank the hero of liberals, FDR.
An unfunded war is one where the funding of the war isn't part of the budget...

...the money that has gone to Iraq and Afghanistan wasn't part of the budget, wasn't counted against the budget.

I do think SS is a Ponzi scheme. I'm not a liberal, but they are right about some things, they are wrong about things. There are a lot of lines the Republicans have drawn in the sand that are superfluous.

I've been forced to choose between platforms I don't agree with every election since I could vote.
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:16   #168
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Originally Posted by canis latrans View Post
our economy tanked because Chris Dodd and Barney Frank threatened the lending industry with severe sanctions if it didn't throw away common sense lending restrictions (like...making pretty sure the borrowers could repay the loan).

Bush warned Dodd and Frank several times that they were risking a catastrophe but alas...

Our economy tanked because the checks and balances that should be controlling the system were not in place. You lay it at Dodd and Frank's feet then you're only looking at part of the puzzle. The whole thing is a clusteF... the blame lies at the feet of many many entities including the financial markets, the credit rating firms, banks etc etc.

It is astounding to me that no safeguards have been put in place to prevent the same thing from happening again... and in fact have been actively resisted.

Just to demonstrate one of the areas I diverge from libertarians is the idea that industries can "self regulate". Markets don't favor self regulators... markets favor people who skirt the rules, because those are the ones that have a competitive advantage; most outsiders don't have the information needed to identify and punish a cheater through markets. Markets also don't favor innovators, it favors "fast followers".

At any rate... If you don't think the people lording over the markets aren't gaming it to their advantage and our collective disadvantage; then you've really fallen for something.
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:17   #169
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Since you are apparently against the war on terror, what would you have had the U.S. to do after 9/11?
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:19   #170
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Originally Posted by MrGlock21 View Post
At the end of the day it doesn't matter anyway, label yourself as you wish, your actual vote is more defining than your self description.
That is the least true thing that can be said within this 2-party system.

If you believe that a sizable percentage out there aren't holding their noses as they pull the lever you're cynical.
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:20   #171
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Since you are apparently against the war on terror, what would you have had the U.S. to do after 9/11?
Who said I'm against the war on terror? I just happen to think we should be paying for it up front.

Iraq was a waste.

Afghanistan was worthy.

The war on terror is worthy.

I just think we should be feeling it in our pocket books if we're being honest about it.
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:31   #172
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This is my take on Iraq.
After 9/11, somebody had to pay the piper. Tin horn dictators all over the world were watching to see what we would do.
S Hussein paid the price. He was a despot, with a sordid history with the U.S. He had weapons of mass destruction. He just had enough time to get them out of his country before the shooting started.
But make no mistake. It sent a message around the world to third world turds who hate the U.S. Watching Hussein swing from a noose was a cold reality. They could be next.

And if you think the war was an unfunded mandate, wait until the boondoggle of Obama Care rains down on us.
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:33   #173
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Our economy tanked because the checks and balances that should be controlling the system were not in place.
nonsense!

The system worked for hundreds of years until Clinton eased the federal requirements for backing loans. this set up Dodd, Frank & Co. who decided [in order to buy votes, presumably] to threaten lending institutions with discrimination suits if they didn't give anyone with a pulse an interest-only mortgage payment loan...

guess what happened when they all defaulted?
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:47   #174
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And if you think the war was an unfunded mandate, wait until the boondoggle of Obama Care rains down on us.
This is a logical fallacy...

Republicans have lost credibility on fiscal responsibility over the funding of the wars.
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:51   #175
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nonsense!

The system worked for hundreds of years until Clinton eased the federal requirements for backing loans. this set up Dodd, Frank & Co. who decided [in order to buy votes, presumably] to threaten lending institutions with discrimination suits if they didn't give anyone with a pulse an interest-only mortgage payment loan...

guess what happened when they all defaulted?
And let's not forget it was Bill Clinton/Robert Rubin who decided to convert the bulk of long-term Treasury debt into short term instruments so Clinton could claim he lowered interest rates while running for re-election in 1996.

Once a real recovery takes place --- probably after Marco Rubio is sworn in as president in 2017 --- and interest rates begin rising dramatically the Radical Left will claim it's Rubio's fault that inflation/interest rates will be holding back prosperity. Let's at least hold out hope that after four more years of Obama we still have free elections in the USA.

The provable danger that the Radical Left mainstream media poses to freedom, liberty, and prosperity is that they accuse moderates and conservatives for the failures of the Marxist/Left. And until there's a Great Awakening among the American people I'm afraid the neo-Stalinists are succeeding beyond their own imagination. Academia/Radical Left mainstream media are destroying America, paving the way for a global dictator not seen since the days of the Roman Emperors.
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