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Old 11-10-2012, 19:52   #176
canis latrans
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
This is a logical fallacy...

Republicans have lost credibility on fiscal responsibility over the funding of the wars.
if fiscal responsibility is now your "thing", who did you vote for?
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:54   #177
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
This is a logical fallacy...

Republicans have lost credibility on fiscal responsibility over the funding of the wars.
Really?
Do you think Medicare was properly funded?
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:07   #178
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
Who said I'm against the war on terror? I just happen to think we should be paying for it up front.
since you're such a fiscal hawk, which federal programs would you have eliminated in order to pay for the war in Afghanistan?
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:11   #179
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Originally Posted by canis latrans View Post
since you're such a fiscal hawk, which federal programs would you have eliminated in order to pay for the war in Afghanistan?



(usually, this is where folks like iiibbb abandon the thread)
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:14   #180
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It is funny that minorities vote strongly Democrat when they tend to very strong conservative family values. The Republicans need to figure out how to engage them on that point.
What is funny is that the answer is not already obvious to the Republicans or everyone who is reading this thread. Really, all you have to do is read this thread pretending to be one of "them". They have been called freeloaders, moochers, irresponsible. criminals and all that is just the more respectable terms. If that is your stated view towards a group, do you really think they will want to support you, regardless of how much they share your values?

A long as the Republicans keep pushing the "us versus them" narrative towards minorities and keep putting them down, the minorities will never support the Republican party.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:19   #181
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As long as the Republicans keep pushing the "us versus them" narrative towards minorities and keep putting them down, the minorities will never support the Republican party.
utter BS!

SHOW me ONE (just one) instance where the Republican Party pushes an "us versus them" narrative against minorities.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:20   #182
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
That is the least true thing that can be said within this 2-party system.

If you believe that a sizable percentage out there aren't holding their noses as they pull the lever you're cynical.
It doesn't matter whether you hold your nose, your family jewels or whether you pick your nose while pulling the lever. You vote what you vote.

Did you look at that D. Prager questionnaire?

http://www.heyjt.com/Lib.htm

Mind telling me how many of those liberal positions you hold?
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:27   #183
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Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
Much of this thread has been just that, people proving my point.
As I was reading your initial post, I thought to myself that not only is everything in this post true, responses in this thread will prove it to be true. I was not disappointed.

One angle that you completely missed is the money making angle. Individuals and organizations like Fox News, Rush etc are fanning the flames for the sake of making money for themselves. The reason some of the people are reacting to your post the way they are is because they have existed too long in the echo chamber that has demonized everyone that is not them and taught them that the correct response to a different viewpoint, or any type of criticism is to attack.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:29   #184
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Originally Posted by canis latrans View Post
utter BS!

SHOW me ONE (just one) instance where the Republican Party pushes an "us versus them" narrative against minorities.
If you have not seen it already in this thread, you are not going to see it. You can go back to your alternate reality.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:33   #185
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If you have not seen it already in this thread, you are not going to see it. You can go back to your alternate reality.
anyone on here an actual official of the Republican Party?

(there are radicals who are members of EVERY political party...I'm talking official planks of the Party)

should ANY party be held totally accountable for every view held by every "member"???
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:47   #186
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Originally Posted by canis latrans View Post
anyone on here an actual official of the Republican Party?

(there are radicals who are members of EVERY political party...I'm talking official planks of the Party)

should ANY party be held totally accountable for every view held by every "member"???
Gosh, don't you know only Republicans are guilty of racism, name calling, slandering, lying etc etc etc.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:47   #187
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Originally Posted by canis latrans View Post
since you're such a fiscal hawk, which federal programs would you have eliminated in order to pay for the war in Afghanistan?
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...oices=wht6nbp1

I solved the deficit...
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:48   #188
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Originally Posted by MrGlock21 View Post
It doesn't matter whether you hold your nose, your family jewels or whether you pick your nose while pulling the lever. You vote what you vote.

Did you look at that D. Prager questionnaire?

http://www.heyjt.com/Lib.htm

Mind telling me how many of those liberal positions you hold?
No worse than people who declare the death of the country and disavow themselves of the country when they lose an election.
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Jude 1:10 "But these people scoff at things they do not understand. Like unthinking animals, they do whatever their instincts tell them, and so they bring about their own destruction."
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:54   #189
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I suggest you people read Rabbi's post again... or risk never winning an election, or worse, never having input in how this country operates again.

Only reason I care is that I happen to see if your way on some things. I'd prefer all stakeholders have a voice... but I don't care about ideologues who saddle up with "conservatives" who think the feds should decide whether gays should be married, or civil unioned, or whatever; or those who think a woman has no say in her body in all cases; or those who think that religion should be taught in science classes and have no idea what a "theory" really is.
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Jude 1:10 "But these people scoff at things they do not understand. Like unthinking animals, they do whatever their instincts tell them, and so they bring about their own destruction."
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:55   #190
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Our economy tanked because the checks and balances that should be controlling the system were not in place. You lay it at Dodd and Frank's feet then you're only looking at part of the puzzle. The whole thing is a clusteF... the blame lies at the feet of many many entities including the financial markets, the credit rating firms, banks etc etc.

It is astounding to me that no safeguards have been put in place to prevent the same thing from happening again... and in fact have been actively resisted.

Just to demonstrate one of the areas I diverge from libertarians is the idea that industries can "self regulate". Markets don't favor self regulators... markets favor people who skirt the rules, because those are the ones that have a competitive advantage; most outsiders don't have the information needed to identify and punish a cheater through markets. Markets also don't favor innovators, it favors "fast followers".

At any rate... If you don't think the people lording over the markets aren't gaming it to their advantage and our collective disadvantage; then you've really fallen for something.
Well said. Just look what happened in 2008: banks were writing sub-prime mortgages, then re-packaging and selling them as investment grade, and having Moody's rubber stamp them...then other people like Lehman and AIG were leveraging out the whazoo and making money with CDOs and credit default swaps (unregulated because they were "insurance products" and not subject to the rules for financial instruments) on those instruments, and then watch all that tank when the crappy mortgages did in fact start to fail...well, hell. And then they walked away with their yearly bonuses and stuck the bill for the losses with the taxpayer.

If proper oversight were in place, with regs against that kind of stuff, and maybe by allowing partnerships where individuals put their own money at risk instead of corporations who could be bailed out without penalty anyone, especially to senior management, then its likely we wouldn't have gone through that mess.

That's the case for regulation. Otherwise, it'll probably happen again.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:56   #191
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Doubling down, gridlocking, and making no decision about the budget is the equivalent of making bad decisions about the budget.

Still screws up the country.
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Jude 1:10 "But these people scoff at things they do not understand. Like unthinking animals, they do whatever their instincts tell them, and so they bring about their own destruction."
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Old 11-10-2012, 21:01   #192
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
No worse than people who declare the death of the country and disavow themselves of the country when they lose an election.
If I may ask one last time. How many of those liberal positions do you hold?

http://www.heyjt.com/Lib.htm

.....Never mind, probably too irritable for you to realize where you stand.
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Old 11-10-2012, 21:32   #193
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Originally Posted by MrGlock21 View Post
It doesn't matter whether you hold your nose, your family jewels or whether you pick your nose while pulling the lever. You vote what you vote.

Did you look at that D. Prager questionnaire?

http://www.heyjt.com/Lib.htm

Mind telling me how many of those liberal positions you hold?
1. Standards for admissions to universities, fire departments, etc. should be lowered for people of color.

Race should not be on the application. Applications should probably even be anonymous.

2. Bilingual education for children of immigrants, rather than immersion in English, is good for them and for America.

No

3. Murderers should never be put to death.

I believe in the death penalty. I also believe it is over applied. I'd rather 100 criminals be saved than one innocent put to death wrongly.

4. During the Cold War, America should have adopted a nuclear arms freeze.

This is a non-issue. We all had enough bombs to destroy the world 100 times over. MAD worked.

5. Colleges should not allow ROTC (Reserve Officer Training Corps) programs.

ROTC is a great program. Many people in my family have served. Both my brothers and an uncle serve this country.

6. It was wrong to wage war against Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War.

Which one? The first one we were absolutely right. Second one we wasted a lot of money for what goal and what gain? We went from WMD’s to freeing the Iraqi people. The story kept changing.

7. Poor parents should not be allowed to have vouchers to send their children to private schools.

Undecided. I value public education. Served me well. I think a strong public education system ensures talent is given a path to the top. The country benefits from having the cream rise.

8. It is good that trial lawyers and teachers unions are the two biggest contributors to the Democratic Party.

Campaign finance reform. I am with McCain on this… money has made politics very dirty.

9. Marriage should be redefined from male-female to any two people.

In the eyes of government, civil unions for everyone. Government should not be in the business of marriage, and should only recognize the legal aspects of forming a union (health insurance, sharing assets, estates, making medical decisions for your partner).

10. A married couple should not have more of a right to adopt a child than two men or two women.

Not an issue to me. I’d rather have the child loved and taken care of. Have you ever read some of the scary foster situations children wind up in? Find children families… if they’re gay, so what. I do not care about peoples’ sexual preference.

11. The Boy Scouts should not be allowed to use parks or any other public places and should be prohibited from using churches and synagogues for their meetings.

Any organization should have access to public places.

12. The present high tax rates are good.

Taxes are lower than they’ve been in years. Taxes are necessary. Simplify the tax code. Infrastructure costs money. The public interest costs money. Some people think they shouldn’t have to pay for anything… until they need the help (i.e. FEMA). Government can’t run a-la-carte.

13. Speech codes on college campuses are good and American values.

Not all colleges have speech codes. Pretty easy to find one that matches your personal views.

14. The Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent.

I strongly support Israel’s right to exist.

15. The United Nations is a moral force for good in the world, and therefore America should be subservient to it and such international institutions as a world court.

The United Nations exists. Many times it is the only forum. It has value, but America should protect it’s interests.

16. It is good that colleges have dropped hundreds of men's sports teams in order to meet gender-based quotas.

I think colleges should drop sports. Waste of money. Takes resources away from education and are not a central purpose to land-grant institutions.

17. No abortions can be labeled immoral.

This issue will never be resolved. I think abortions should be allowed until the first trimester (arbitrary). I think contraception and sex education are needed in schools to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place and will do more to prevent abortions than abstinence. I think the morning after pill (which prevents conception from taking place) should be legal.

18. Restaurants should be prohibited by law from allowing customers to choose between a smoking and a non-smoking section.

I hate smoking. Smokers claim that they’re not bothering anyone is a false. It pollutes my air. I support smoking bans for public establishments.

19. High schools should make condoms available to students and teach them how to use them.

Yes. It will prevent abortions.

20. Racial profiling for terrorists is wrong -- a white American grandmother should as likely be searched as a Saudi young male.

Shouldn’t limit ourselves to race. We should take the Israeli approach to air travel security. TSA is kabuki theater.

21. Racism and poverty -- not a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in the inner city.

All of those things are inter-related.

22. It is wrong and unconstitutional for students to be told, "God bless you" at their graduation.

Separate church and state.

23. No culture is morally superior to any other.

Waste of time to try to figure that out. America is a melting pot. We are unique. We have our own flaws. It is a waste of time to compare ourselves to other cultures. We should protect our interests.
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Jude 1:10 "But these people scoff at things they do not understand. Like unthinking animals, they do whatever their instincts tell them, and so they bring about their own destruction."

Last edited by iiibbb; 11-10-2012 at 21:40..
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Old 11-10-2012, 22:41   #194
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
Doubling down, gridlocking, and making no decision about the budget is the equivalent of making bad decisions about the budget.

Still screws up the country.
Obama hasn't put up or passed budget since his first year. So there really hasn't been a budget. Therefore officially the war cannot now be off budget unless everything else is too.
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Old 11-10-2012, 22:50   #195
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Originally Posted by c6601a View Post
What is funny is that the answer is not already obvious to the Republicans or everyone who is reading this thread. Really, all you have to do is read this thread pretending to be one of "them". They have been called freeloaders, moochers, irresponsible. criminals and all that is just the more respectable terms. If that is your stated view towards a group, do you really think they will want to support you, regardless of how much they share your values?

A long as the Republicans keep pushing the "us versus them" narrative towards minorities and keep putting them down, the minorities will never support the Republican party.
The level of bigotry in your post is astounding. Your assumption is that minorities are poor, welfare taking, non-federal income tax paying people, and criminals to boot. I certainly don't assume that, or think that. I find that people that fit your descriptions are of all races. I don't find any of those traits to be acceptable to the cultural history of any minority. I find that culturally parents don't wish any of those things for their children.

Why do you assume such nasty things about minorities? Your stated views are appalling and despicable. You really should be ashamed of yourself.
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:09   #196
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The level of bigotry in your post is astounding.....
The level of lack of reading comprehension in your post is shocking. I was pointing out that the Republican establishment and a lot of people who claim to be supporters of the party espouse those views and that those views are wrong.
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:12   #197
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Reagan couldn't have beaten Barry last Tuesday.
That RINO Reagan could not have beaten anyone in this year's Republican primary to get the nomination.
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:06   #198
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so, you're going to hope the bad guys in the world will stop being mean to us, you're CUTTING (do you hear me? CUTTING the Park Service!!!!) and you're going to throw Grandma off the cliff?

and WHY don't you want our kids to be educated & safe???? you're going to cut PUBLIC SAFETY programs? oh, the horror!

Last edited by canis latrans; 11-11-2012 at 06:32..
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:40   #199
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The reason some of the people are reacting to your post the way they are is because they have existed too long in the echo chamber that has demonized everyone that is not them and taught them that the correct response to a different viewpoint, or any type of criticism is to attack.
perhaps that response is what they have been taught by the Left?

"Mr. Reid. Calling Harry Reid"

try going over to the Daily Kos or Democratic Underground and posting something that doesn't tow the communist party line and see what their reaction is.
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:42   #200
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so, you're going to hope the bad guys in the world will stop being mean to us, you're CUTTING (do you hear me? CUTTING the Park Service!!!!) and you're going to throw Grandma off the cliff?

and WHY don't you want our kids to be educated & safe???? you're going to cut PUBLIC SAFETY programs? oh, the horror!
Is this your simulation of government... someone makes a proposal, and rather than pose a counter proposal, or talk about common ground, you call my whole plan stupid and don't come up with any alternative of your own?

Why is it that conservatives demand that every element of the government work smarter and more efficiently --- but not the military?

We've got programs in the military even THEY say we don't need. We keep them alive because they are pet projects by state senators. There are inefficiencies within that should be addressed. Forcing the military work more efficiently is only good for national security.

But beside the point... at least I sat down and made a proposal. Your response wasn't to use this applette to figure out another way and put an alternative up.

The main thing you should learn from playing with the little game is that we're not going to a balanced budget by cutting piddly little programs and earmarks. We have to cut meat and figure out how to do it.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...s-graphic.html

You do it if you have something better.
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Last edited by iiibbb; 11-11-2012 at 06:52..
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