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Old 11-08-2012, 15:29   #141
ColdSteelNail
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Rabbi, I always enjoy reading your posts.

P.S. Could you send me an ounce or two of whatever it is you smoke.
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Old 11-08-2012, 16:03   #142
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After every major election, the losing party/candidate and their supporters/haters begin to decipher what went wrong. Two days after this election, the info from the voting public is starting to trickle out. Some information may help determine why voter turnout was less. It will take weeks/months to have even a reasonable educated guess as to 'what happened'.

This is an interesting note, an article I read last night....it was a female 'think tank' type person who opined that the Hispanics voted Democrat, not because of the immigration issue, but because of the freebies (I paraphrase). Is it true?...could be..it was a very interesting article. Things like this and voter stats will help develop a clearer picture over time.

I say all this, there isn't one or two reasons why Romney lost, but a cornucopia of things, some we may eventually figure out, but at this time.....we just don't know. Could it be some of the things here posted? Yep....but know one really knows...at this time.

So.....its back out on the streets, doing what I did on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, etc.....knowing from a political standpoint, there will fights in the future...some I will be winner...some I won't. But an important thing, for me is, I will be involved. Just my $.02.



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Old 11-08-2012, 16:28   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron007 View Post
After every major election, the losing party/candidate and their supporters/haters begin to decipher what went wrong.
Here's a start.
Political Issues
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Old 11-08-2012, 17:50   #144
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Your swastika is showing...
Political Issues

It has been a while since I meditated.

Are you sure you are not refering to a Hackenkreuz?

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BTW your forgot to mention that you have a Porsche in this thread, you feeling ok?
This is my truck.

Political Issues

The picture is at Camp Hale (google it).
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Old 11-09-2012, 00:25   #145
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Originally Posted by wprebeck View Post
I am not crusading for anyone. I simply won't change my belief system to win a contest. THAT is what you advocate - THAT is your opinion as to what needs to happen in order to win the White House.

I refuse to change my moral viewpoint, in order to win a popularity contest. You will. How's that work at Temple on Sabbath? Try consulting a real rabbi as to what he believes is the right thing to do. I'm betting it has nothing to do with changing moral values in order to win a contest.

The Spock comment is based on your almost uncountable previous postings as to how math rules the world, and logic dominates all. It completely ignores the fact that people are emotional beings, and emotions factor into a large part of our decision making. Life in the real world isn't Spock, and you've obviously never watched the episodes where even Spock realizes that emotions have a valid place in life.

If that hurts your feelings, oh well. I've been around here long enough to see your point of view, and to know that I disagree. We'll leave it at that. I don't particularly care about the opinion of a dilettante who plays cop part time because he's bored, and thinks I should change my morals to win an election.

I'm guessing you missed the reference to a song in my previous post - do a search for Aaron Tippin's "You've Got to Stand for Something". It fits.

Again, I will never change my morals or ethical viewpoint for anyone. Not to make them happy, nor to help win an election. If that means the R's fade into obscurity, so what? As I mentioned, and as the OP's username implies, I am held accountable to a much higher power than whomever is President (although I'm not Jewish, the OP would imply for his religion). While I am worried for the future of our country, taking it further down a road of hedonism and moral turpitude will not solve any problems.

I "do" laugh quite a bit at the folks who seem to think it's a new fad for the R's to be the "morality police". Does no one remember the "Just Say No" campaign of the 80's/90's? The drama that went on between music producers and the enforced labeling of CD's back in the 90's? Hell, go back to the 50's and look at the differences from then to now.

Tell me when life was better for Americans. Then, with moral standards that were adhered to - or now, with moral relativism being the order of the day.
So, all of that to tell me how you think I am wrong because all I do is the math....in a thread where I talk about pretty much nothing but the emotional drive of people?

You have horrid aim. Post after past and you simply cant get a bead on what I am saying, You just want to throw in your feelings. I get that but taking ill placed swipes at me that do not connect doesnt help you.

BTW, did you really just bring up Spock, compare me to Spock and then admonish me for not really knowing what Spock was all about? Dude, are you high? Get a train of thought and stick with it.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:42   #146
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Originally Posted by series1811 View Post
Here's a start.
Political Issues
No question....that is a part of it.




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Old 11-09-2012, 10:36   #147
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Thanks for this, Rabbi.

Your assertion that the US is a center/right country is ringing a little hollow today. Perhaps it is because of the issues vs. principle-oriented voting that you're talking about. I think, though, that the times have changed.

The skeleton in democracy's closet is that it is possible for the majority to be wrong. Electing Obama once could be construed as a mistake by gullible voters caught up in identity politics. Electing him twice, like it or not, is a clear signal from the electorate.
"There are now more people who think like them, rather than like us!"

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Old 11-09-2012, 12:19   #148
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For what little it may be worth (and probably little surprise), I completely agree with Rabbi's OP and the message he's trying to deliver. Unfortunately, I think that message is being missed, or purposely ignored, or perhaps twisted by folks that don't want to think.

True: humans are an emotional bunch. And that can cause a rift in discussions at times, specially when one side is thinking and the other is feeling.

This back-and-forth between Rabbi and you is a perfect example of that. One side is thinking, the other isn't.

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Originally Posted by wprebeck View Post
I simply won't change my belief system to win a contest.
If your belief system means excluding people because of what they believe, then you're going to lose. That's Rabbi's point. If you can't compromise enough to include others (folks of different sexual preferences, folks from different countries, folks from different social classes, etc), then those folks are going to vote against you, not with you.

And IF your beliefs also represent the Right, then the Right is going to continue to lose.

Which means we'll NEVER get to change the country, the laws, or anything else we may want to.

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I refuse to change my moral viewpoint, in order to win a popularity contest. You will.
This "popularity contest" as you put it is what puts leaders into office. And those leaders make regulations and laws that can have massive impacts on us now and in the future. Do you want to continue down the path we're on? Being taxed into oblivion to cover a debt we're never going to get out of? Then stick to your guns (morals) and continue to lose.

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How's that work at Temple on Sabbath? Try consulting a real rabbi as to what he believes is the right thing to do. I'm betting it has nothing to do with changing moral values in order to win a contest.
You're representing precisely what Rabbi is trying to argue against. Why drag religion into this?

Quote:
Again, I will never change my morals or ethical viewpoint for anyone. Not to make them happy, nor to help win an election. If that means the R's fade into obscurity, so what?
"So what" indeed. Well, as it turns out, some of us actually care

Quote:
Does no one remember the "Just Say No" campaign of the 80's/90's?
One technical bit of clarification: who was the primary "pusher" of that campaign in the 80s? I think her last name is... Reagan, isn't it?

Quote:
Tell me when life was better for Americans. Then, with moral standards that were adhered to - or now, with moral relativism being the order of the day.
Once again, you're completely missing Rabbi's point but actually making it for him at the same time.

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Old 11-09-2012, 13:00   #149
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Once again, you're completely missing Rabbi's point but actually making it for him at the same time.

jas
Much of this thread has been just that, people proving my point.

The left really does have a point about the hate of the right. Of course, the right has many points about the flaws of the left....but that doesnt change our faults. (that are destroying us)
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Old 11-09-2012, 17:02   #150
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I also do not think we are a center-right nation anymore. The black/hispanic total is almost 30%, and we know how they vote. Reagan couldn't have beaten Barry last Tuesday. Reagan got the same percentage of the white vote as McCain, but the white total declined from 85% to 74% in that time. Do you think that trend will change?

Hope you all have guns, ammo, and gold. I see this all ending in a severely devalued dollar, and eventually an authoritarian government of the left or right.

As far as the hate of the right, that is total nonsense. Romney didn't call Obama a 'bull*******', and his people didn't call Obama a murderer. Ask Sarah Palin about political hate.

A wise man observed that a long time ago in the US, what matters changed from character to personality. We saw the results of that Tuesday.
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Old 11-09-2012, 17:08   #151
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No question....that is a part of it.




red
Looks like about 47%.

Here's another prediction: In the next few decades, Texas will vote Democratic for president due to their growing hispanic population.
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Old 11-09-2012, 21:07   #152
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Rab

There is no such thing as UTOPIA! But there is such a thing as personnel responsibility.

I'm a ripoff-rep in Oklahoma. The reddist of the red. I would rather be dead than a dumb-o-crat give me give me idiot. And your damn sure going to pay for it!

But I violate the rip off reds to a point. The Feds need to be there,,, but small. Research early American politics. The dumb-o-crats have always pandered to the give me class. But as a renagade rip-off-rep. I only care about abortion. I could careless about the war on drug's, gay right's, the beaners need to be stopped. Invest in American Production. But GM and Mopar have built junk for years!


I'm just rambling,,,, sorry.

But ripples of Obummer being reelected has sent our co. owner in hiding. We saw him the day after election. My money is on,,,, Him selling the co. out, and walking. And who he would sell the company to is a joke of investment idiots. Even our customers are concerned. What will happen to this pool of experance if we all scatter.

Will I be out of a job for long? NO,,, With all my hernias and health problems born of wreckless youth. And i don't need you to play for my issues. I will have a positive cash flow. But my college educated wife was laid off her job of 15 years two months ago and has only had three real interviews. Cough, Cough,,, she has no real skills. Just near worthless paper....
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Old 11-09-2012, 22:55   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .264 magnum View Post
Right now across the world a Taliban member or a Saudi Morals Police officer is thinking the same thing.

Julius Sthreicher would admire your adherence to the hardline.
Yes, but the Taliban are winning. They have the long view. They will cut your throat in your sleep. They will kill your women and children. They will use your humanity and "liberalism" against you, eventually they will kill you.

I don't know if this is a good example. They are using a different path to winning.
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Old 11-09-2012, 23:20   #154
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The Republicans need to change their tactics, not their principles.

Why were they not screaming from the top of their lungs that voting for Obama proves that those people are bigots, like the democrats did when they said that voting people were voting for McCain because they did not want a "black" president. Clearly the people that voted against Romney did it because he is a Mormon. The religious bigotry is plain.

The Republicans should have rightly pointed out to blacks that it was the Republicans that freed the slaves. It was the southern Democrats that fought integration. Point out to the Latinos that the things that caused their families and millions like them to come to America was because of the Republican principles and issues of economic freedom and the equal opportunity that allows poor immigrants to to become rich through education and hard work or maybe just hard work. The principles that built what allows even our poor to live well compared to where they came from. The vast majority of Latinos did not come here with an eye to lounging on the welfare roles, but to work their tails off to send money home and bring their families out of true poverty.

The republicans would be better off stop talking about gays. Maybe they should talk about fighting for families and laws that support keeping families together. Two parent families are are a better support than a single parent family. A stable family may be more important than than that one parent is a mom and the other is a dad. I certainly believe a mom and a dad is better than two parents that are the same sex. Having a mom and a dad gives you a role model of each sex. Believe it or not there are natural biological differences between men and women. I have studied women very closely over decades and they are very different from me. Should Republicans support Gay civil unions? Maybe they should encourage them among gay parents for "the children". They should encourage dual adoptions so that if the union fails or one dies that they is a parent responsible for the child and not just the state. That is one of the major purposes of civil marriages.

Maybe Republicans should be more cut throat towards their opponents.

It is funny that minorities vote strongly Democrat when they tend to very strong conservative family values. The Republicans need to figure out how to engage them on that point.


The Republicans have the worst marketing ever.
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Old 11-10-2012, 16:00   #155
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Rabbi, throughout the thread you are absolutely correct.

I'm a center right voter who's thinks the current Republican bloc has too much baggage with regards to values I don't share... in spite of the fact that I share the a general principle of small government and fiscal responsibility.

I feel the Republican party as a whole has abandoned those principals.

- cavalier about environmental issues (environmental issues are no different to me than national defense)
- gay rights
- women's rights

Republicans are responsible for 2 unfunded wars and as far as I can tell refuse to be circumspect about why our economy went down during/after Bush.

I feel I could meet on a great deal of common ground with regards to economic issues --- but I'm not going to concede my, and others, individual rights just because certain, or even a majority of conservative, think they should be illegal.

I'd rather take my chances with the economy than give them the power to control my personal life.

The Republican party would be well served if it dumped the gay issue, moderated on abortion, got more serious about people gaming the stock market, and got more serious about the environment (rather than in complete rejection/denial of science).
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Old 11-10-2012, 17:03   #156
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Rabbi, throughout the thread you are absolutely correct.

I'm a center right voter who's thinks the current Republican bloc has too much baggage with regards to values I don't share... in spite of the fact that I share the a general principle of small government and fiscal responsibility.

I feel the Republican party as a whole has abandoned those principals.

- cavalier about environmental issues (environmental issues are no different to me than national defense)
- gay rights
- women's rights

Republicans are responsible for 2 unfunded wars and as far as I can tell refuse to be circumspect about why our economy went down during/after Bush.

I feel I could meet on a great deal of common ground with regards to economic issues --- but I'm not going to concede my, and others, individual rights just because certain, or even a majority of conservative, think they should be illegal.

I'd rather take my chances with the economy than give them the power to control my personal life.

The Republican party would be well served if it dumped the gay issue, moderated on abortion, got more serious about people gaming the stock market, and got more serious about the environment (rather than in complete rejection/denial of science).
From your description, you are nothing close to Center Right.
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Old 11-10-2012, 17:06   #157
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From your description, you are nothing close to Center Right.
Whatever you say... fiscally I am. Socially I'm libertarian.

I'm a voter Republicans could have... but not going to get in their current configuration. Now... they may feel that moving further right will get them further than making themselves palatable to people like me.

I suppose that's their wager to make.
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Old 11-10-2012, 17:33   #158
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From your description, you are nothing close to Center Right.
also... you're saying that the "right" is okay with unfunded wars and people gaming financial sectors? You are for ignoring environmental issues, even though the costs of cleanup foisted on society, rather than the people who profit from the destruction are good for society? No different to me than the ponzi scheme known as social security.

This is what the right truly stands for?

My right is small government, libertarian, and generally limited powers except in things that are of national interest.
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Old 11-10-2012, 18:03   #159
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- cavalier about environmental issues (environmental issues are no different to me than national defense).

got more serious about the environment (rather than in complete rejection/denial of science).
If you are a Libertarian you would recognize that the EPA is an overreaching, freedom stopping, job preventing, foreign energy depending strong arm of the government. Some regulation is fine, the amount of power this agency of government has is too far reaching and has a strangle hold on freedom and the economy.

Maybe a LINO.

Quote:
We demand the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.
http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Lib...nvironment.htm

It's easy to call yourself something but believe differently. Do some research before you label yourself.
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Old 11-10-2012, 18:14   #160
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Originally Posted by concretefuzzynuts View Post
If you are a Libertarian you would recognize that the EPA is an overreaching, freedom stopping, job preventing, foreign energy depending strong arm of the government. Some regulation is fine, the amount of power this agency of government has is too far reaching and has a strangle hold on freedom and the economy.

Maybe a LINO.



http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Lib...nvironment.htm
They may be over-reaching, but the correct alternative isn't dissolution. These environmental issues are important to our long-term economy.

Also, congress doesn't have to leave it to the EPA. Ignoring climate change isn't going to make it go away; but that seems to be many peoples' response to it. "It doesn't exist". It does, and it is going to affect this country... and calling the EPA names and calling scientists names isn't going make it go away. We collectively stand to lose more than an individual has to gain.

IF some company is extracting a resource and screwing up everyone elses' water-- they don't have a right to do that. Being a libertarian doesn't mean one person's rights > another's.
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