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Old 11-10-2012, 18:15   #161
iiibbb
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Originally Posted by concretefuzzynuts View Post

It's easy to call yourself something but believe differently. Do some research before you label yourself.

It is also possible to share 80% of the values and be declared a pretender by ideologue.
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Old 11-10-2012, 18:21   #162
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
It is also possible to share 80% of the values and be declared a pretender by ideologue.
We should have no battle, but you drew first blood with me in another thread.

If I am an ideologue because I believe the EPA is bad for the country, so be it.
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Old 11-10-2012, 18:21   #163
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
Republicans are responsible for 2 unfunded wars
the democrats were knocking people over in their rush to say "me, too!" when the war funding was up for debate shortly after 9/11/2001.

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Old 11-10-2012, 18:48   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concretefuzzynuts View Post


http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Lib...nvironment.htm

It's easy to call yourself something but believe differently. Do some research before you label yourself.

Happens all the time. People label themselves 'right' or Right of Center but are in fact Left of Center with a sense of fiscal responsibility. The lack of self awareness is astonishing.

But it happens on the other side too. Many folks label themselves
liberal when in fact they are not according to their mindset. Check out this test

http://www.heyjt.com/Lib.htm

Time and time again I hear folks say after doing the test ... "wait, I'm not a liberal"

At the end of the day it doesn't matter anyway, label yourself as you wish, your actual vote is more defining than your self description.
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:02   #165
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Republicans are responsible for 2 unfunded wars and as far as I can tell refuse to be circumspect about why our economy went down during/after Bush.
our economy tanked because Chris Dodd and Barney Frank threatened the lending industry with severe sanctions if it didn't throw away common sense lending restrictions (like...making pretty sure the borrowers could repay the loan).

Bush warned Dodd and Frank several times that they were risking a catastrophe but alas...
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:27   #166
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also... you're saying that the "right" is okay with unfunded wars and people gaming financial sectors? You are for ignoring environmental issues, even though the costs of cleanup foisted on society, rather than the people who profit from the destruction are good for society? No different to me than the ponzi scheme known as social security.

This is what the right truly stands for?

My right is small government, libertarian, and generally limited powers except in things that are of national interest.
First of all, what exactly is an unfunded war? Has their always been a savings account built up prior to every War the U.S. has been involved in?

Man made global warming is a charade, meant to destroy Capitalism.

If you think S/S is a ponzi scheme, thank the hero of liberals, FDR.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:10   #167
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First of all, what exactly is an unfunded war? Has their always been a savings account built up prior to every War the U.S. has been involved in?

Man made global warming is a charade, meant to destroy Capitalism.

If you think S/S is a ponzi scheme, thank the hero of liberals, FDR.
An unfunded war is one where the funding of the war isn't part of the budget...

...the money that has gone to Iraq and Afghanistan wasn't part of the budget, wasn't counted against the budget.

I do think SS is a Ponzi scheme. I'm not a liberal, but they are right about some things, they are wrong about things. There are a lot of lines the Republicans have drawn in the sand that are superfluous.

I've been forced to choose between platforms I don't agree with every election since I could vote.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:16   #168
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Originally Posted by canis latrans View Post
our economy tanked because Chris Dodd and Barney Frank threatened the lending industry with severe sanctions if it didn't throw away common sense lending restrictions (like...making pretty sure the borrowers could repay the loan).

Bush warned Dodd and Frank several times that they were risking a catastrophe but alas...

Our economy tanked because the checks and balances that should be controlling the system were not in place. You lay it at Dodd and Frank's feet then you're only looking at part of the puzzle. The whole thing is a clusteF... the blame lies at the feet of many many entities including the financial markets, the credit rating firms, banks etc etc.

It is astounding to me that no safeguards have been put in place to prevent the same thing from happening again... and in fact have been actively resisted.

Just to demonstrate one of the areas I diverge from libertarians is the idea that industries can "self regulate". Markets don't favor self regulators... markets favor people who skirt the rules, because those are the ones that have a competitive advantage; most outsiders don't have the information needed to identify and punish a cheater through markets. Markets also don't favor innovators, it favors "fast followers".

At any rate... If you don't think the people lording over the markets aren't gaming it to their advantage and our collective disadvantage; then you've really fallen for something.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:17   #169
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Since you are apparently against the war on terror, what would you have had the U.S. to do after 9/11?
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:19   #170
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Originally Posted by MrGlock21 View Post
At the end of the day it doesn't matter anyway, label yourself as you wish, your actual vote is more defining than your self description.
That is the least true thing that can be said within this 2-party system.

If you believe that a sizable percentage out there aren't holding their noses as they pull the lever you're cynical.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:20   #171
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Since you are apparently against the war on terror, what would you have had the U.S. to do after 9/11?
Who said I'm against the war on terror? I just happen to think we should be paying for it up front.

Iraq was a waste.

Afghanistan was worthy.

The war on terror is worthy.

I just think we should be feeling it in our pocket books if we're being honest about it.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:31   #172
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This is my take on Iraq.
After 9/11, somebody had to pay the piper. Tin horn dictators all over the world were watching to see what we would do.
S Hussein paid the price. He was a despot, with a sordid history with the U.S. He had weapons of mass destruction. He just had enough time to get them out of his country before the shooting started.
But make no mistake. It sent a message around the world to third world turds who hate the U.S. Watching Hussein swing from a noose was a cold reality. They could be next.

And if you think the war was an unfunded mandate, wait until the boondoggle of Obama Care rains down on us.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:33   #173
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Originally Posted by iiibbb View Post
Our economy tanked because the checks and balances that should be controlling the system were not in place.
nonsense!

The system worked for hundreds of years until Clinton eased the federal requirements for backing loans. this set up Dodd, Frank & Co. who decided [in order to buy votes, presumably] to threaten lending institutions with discrimination suits if they didn't give anyone with a pulse an interest-only mortgage payment loan...

guess what happened when they all defaulted?
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:47   #174
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And if you think the war was an unfunded mandate, wait until the boondoggle of Obama Care rains down on us.
This is a logical fallacy...

Republicans have lost credibility on fiscal responsibility over the funding of the wars.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:51   #175
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Originally Posted by canis latrans View Post
nonsense!

The system worked for hundreds of years until Clinton eased the federal requirements for backing loans. this set up Dodd, Frank & Co. who decided [in order to buy votes, presumably] to threaten lending institutions with discrimination suits if they didn't give anyone with a pulse an interest-only mortgage payment loan...

guess what happened when they all defaulted?
And let's not forget it was Bill Clinton/Robert Rubin who decided to convert the bulk of long-term Treasury debt into short term instruments so Clinton could claim he lowered interest rates while running for re-election in 1996.

Once a real recovery takes place --- probably after Marco Rubio is sworn in as president in 2017 --- and interest rates begin rising dramatically the Radical Left will claim it's Rubio's fault that inflation/interest rates will be holding back prosperity. Let's at least hold out hope that after four more years of Obama we still have free elections in the USA.

The provable danger that the Radical Left mainstream media poses to freedom, liberty, and prosperity is that they accuse moderates and conservatives for the failures of the Marxist/Left. And until there's a Great Awakening among the American people I'm afraid the neo-Stalinists are succeeding beyond their own imagination. Academia/Radical Left mainstream media are destroying America, paving the way for a global dictator not seen since the days of the Roman Emperors.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:52   #176
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This is a logical fallacy...

Republicans have lost credibility on fiscal responsibility over the funding of the wars.
if fiscal responsibility is now your "thing", who did you vote for?
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:54   #177
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This is a logical fallacy...

Republicans have lost credibility on fiscal responsibility over the funding of the wars.
Really?
Do you think Medicare was properly funded?
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Old 11-10-2012, 21:07   #178
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Who said I'm against the war on terror? I just happen to think we should be paying for it up front.
since you're such a fiscal hawk, which federal programs would you have eliminated in order to pay for the war in Afghanistan?
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Old 11-10-2012, 21:11   #179
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since you're such a fiscal hawk, which federal programs would you have eliminated in order to pay for the war in Afghanistan?



(usually, this is where folks like iiibbb abandon the thread)
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Old 11-10-2012, 21:14   #180
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It is funny that minorities vote strongly Democrat when they tend to very strong conservative family values. The Republicans need to figure out how to engage them on that point.
What is funny is that the answer is not already obvious to the Republicans or everyone who is reading this thread. Really, all you have to do is read this thread pretending to be one of "them". They have been called freeloaders, moochers, irresponsible. criminals and all that is just the more respectable terms. If that is your stated view towards a group, do you really think they will want to support you, regardless of how much they share your values?

A long as the Republicans keep pushing the "us versus them" narrative towards minorities and keep putting them down, the minorities will never support the Republican party.
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