GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-09-2012, 05:34   #151
Ruble Noon
"Cracker"
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
About a generation after, they get the big earth movers out to dig trenches to push the bodies into.

Folks like gunhaver always assume they'll be on the right side of those trenches when they're covered up but they're often sadly mistaken.
They come face to face with reality when they are kneeling in front of the trench with a gun to the back of their head.
Ruble Noon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 05:35   #152
writwing
Senior Member
 
writwing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by M 7 View Post
Have a little faith, man. We'll get through this.

We've endured worse although not recently and I believe that we can come outta this once the error of these "gimme summa theirs 'cause they have more than me" policies is realized. One way or another it will have to come to a stop.

Just remember M. Thatcher's words-

"The problem with Socialism is that eventually, you run out of other people's money."

It (money) is a finite resource. Sure we can always print more, but eventually we'll demonetize the currency and even then the Left will still be handing it out for use as toilet paper to both constituencies reduced to living in the woods and under highway overpasses. Rest assured, I don't wish to see it come to that, but it very well may have to before Americans realize that "free stuff" ain't.

I don't think so. The demographics have changed and the predominant cultures are takers not producers. They have been told that the white man has kept them down when in fact it is their own culture that has limited their progress. Has any group been hated more then the Jews? Yet their culture of hard work and education has allowed them to overcome the prejudice. And what about the Indians who come to this country and are successful? Arent they dark skinned too? Its their culture that allows them to succeed over prejudice.

The gop want you to succeed the dems want you on the teat.
__________________
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. T. Roosevelt
writwing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 05:48   #153
writwing
Senior Member
 
writwing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjv View Post
or maybe it's the media repeating the lies over and over and over again without any fear of being challenged.

- mitt wants to kill grandma
- mitt will make abortion illegal
- mitt will only help the rich
- mitt's budget will wipe out all social programs
- when mitt ran bain capital, he sent jobs overseas
- mitt hates gays
- the economy is recovering
- fast & furious? Never heard of it
- fast & furious? Bush started it
- embassy killings, was because of a hate film
- embassy killing? There was no prior about an attack.
- obama has improved the economy
- unemployment is down
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
__________________
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. T. Roosevelt
writwing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 05:51   #154
writwing
Senior Member
 
writwing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaMatt View Post
"Seize money under threat of violence"?

You mean, "pay taxes as part of the social contract, like in every civilized society that has ever existed on earth"?
But just under 50% are not paying income tax and in fact many are receiving "refunds" on taxes they didn't pay.

That aint in my social contract.
__________________
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. T. Roosevelt
writwing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 05:57   #155
writwing
Senior Member
 
writwing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaMatt View Post
What a terrible thing to say to someone.
He spoke the truth. How many jobs are YOU working to take care of your sick girlfriend???
__________________
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. T. Roosevelt
writwing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 06:17   #156
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,137


Quote:
Originally Posted by series1811 View Post
It doesn't matter who it was. We passed the tipping point in 2008, we just didn't realize it. Who doesn't realize it now?

You can't outpromise the Democrats. They invented it and are masters at it.

Sometimes, things really can go past the point of being fixed.
It also ha a lot to do with identity politics. It would have been interesting to watch Heman Cain take a stab at it, but he proved not to be so bright running with that many skeletons in his closet.
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 06:31   #157
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,702


Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
The real hypocrisy would be the thread in general chat where certifiedfunds said he didn't want to pay any taxes at all, yet he wants to partake in all of the benefits of living in a civilized society. Talk about entitlement, certified is as entitled as they come.
You challenged my statistic that 100% of federal tax revenue is spent on social welfare and not infrastructure or common good services.

I provided you with a chart and math that shows just that.

Do you agree or disagree with this fact?


Without exception I have found that people who believe as you do aren't net payers into the system. No, they may not be the out and out leeches who are drawing checks but they aren't carrying a full tax load. I suspect that is the case with you too. It makes it easy to point at people like me and ridicule but the truth is you need people like me or your entire house of cards will come tumbling down.

I guess I should take comfort in the fact that it WILL come tumbling down. In fact, your election of Obama just brought it nearer.
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 07:01   #158
pspez
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Coconut Creek, Fl
Posts: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
True. The only way to win now is to pander. Are you Hispanic? We'll give you amnesty. Like leeching off society? Welfare for all. Female? Abortions on-demand up to 9 months and free birth control. Underwater on your home because you were stupid and greedy? We'll bail you out. Too much student loan debt because you picked a worthless education? We'll wipe out your debt. Etc. Gimme gimme gimme.

I can't wait until the dollar collapses and the whole thing implodes. Don't come crying to me when it does.

Right on the money. All you bleeding hearts should be careful of what you ask for.
pspez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 07:04   #159
Stubudd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kennesaw GA
Posts: 4,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
On a large scale? Not really. Most people are inherently selfish. I agree with you that it's not the government's job, but to say that donations and charity are enough to supply the whole country with some type of safety net is simply unrealistic.
Supplying the whole country with a safety net, or spending trillions of dollars to destroy health care, education and everything else they touch? That's what those programs have done. Why are higher education costs leaving most of a generation as indentured servants hopelessly indebted for the rest of their lives? Why do textbooks cost $150? Because the feds guaranteed money to everybody and corrupted the market. Schools charge more because they know the government is paying for it. The kids say we can't afford it, so the politicians promise more. The schools charge even more. Endless repeat, until they are charging $150 for a frickin book.

The exact same thing with the housing market- government backs mortgages that shouldn't have been made, so everybody can buy a house- prices inflate- reality eventually sets in, housing crash.

Same thing in health care. Medicare and other programs inflate prices and distort the market- an aspirin tablet costs $20 at the hospital. People ask the politicians to help them pay, even though the government created the horrible situation in the first place. Even more programs- obamacare. Even worse situation, eventually- reality will set in there too.

It's always the same. Always. More government is never the right answer. You can't save all the people, not in the real world. You say it's not realistic to think charity would be able to supply a safety net to the whole country. Who knows? Maybe if everybody didn't feel like half their money was already being confiscated by force for that safety net, more would be willing to donate some. Maybe it would only be enough to cover those who really need it, instead of being used to buy votes from leeches that won't work. God forbid. You say people are selfish- how is not selfish to take money from the government for people that could be working but won't? How is keeping what you have worked for more selfish than taking money from somebody else?

What kind of person believes they have a right to live at another's expense, from another's labor? A thief. Using the government as intermediary, as muscle, just makes one a thief by proxy. CF is right, obviously. Maybe gunhaver should pause to consider why health care is so expensive in the first place. The root of the problem is always the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
The real hypocrisy would be the thread in general chat where certifiedfunds said he didn't want to pay any taxes at all, yet he wants to partake in all of the benefits of living in a civilized society. Talk about entitlement, certified is as entitled as they come.
The federal government is society? We need to send trillions of dollars to washington DC to be civilized? Say what? Think about what you are saying. Please take 15 minutes and read the link in my sig.
Stubudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 07:08   #160
Stubudd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kennesaw GA
Posts: 4,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunhaver View Post
I'm not entitled to your money. It's not your money. It's everyone's
well that was creepy
Stubudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 07:08   #161
rgregoryb
Sapere aude
 
rgregoryb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Republic of Alabama
Posts: 12,703


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubudd View Post
Supplying the whole country with a safety net, or spending trillions of dollars to destroy health care, education and everything else they touch? That's what those programs have done. Why are higher education costs leaving most of a generation as indentured servants hopelessly indebted for the rest of their lives? Why do textbooks cost $150? Because the feds guaranteed money to everybody and corrupted the market. Schools charge more because they know the government is paying for it. The kids say we can't afford it, so the politicians promise more. The schools charge even more. Endless repeat, until they are charging $150 for a frickin book.

The exact same thing with the housing market- government backs mortgages that shouldn't have been made, so everybody can buy a house- prices inflate- reality eventually sets in, housing crash.

Same thing in health care. Medicare and other programs inflate prices and distort the market- an aspirin tablet costs $20 at the hospital. People ask the politicians to help them pay, even though the government created the horrible situation in the first place. Even more programs- obamacare. Even worse situation, eventually- reality will set in there too.

It's always the same. Always. More government is never the right answer. You can't save all the people, not in the real world. You say it's not realistic to think charity would be able to supply a safety net to the whole country. Who knows? Maybe if everybody didn't feel like half their money was already being confiscated by force for that safety net, more would be willing to donate some. Maybe it would only be enough to cover those who really need it, instead of being used to buy votes from leeches that won't work. God forbid. You say people are selfish- how is not selfish to take money from the government for people that could be working but won't? How is keeping what you have worked for more selfish than taking money from somebody else?

What kind of person believes they have a right to live at another's expense, from another's labor? A thief. Using the government as intermediary, as muscle, just makes one a thief by proxy. CF is right, obviously. Maybe gunhaver should pause to consider why health care is so expensive in the first place. The root of the problem is always the same.



The federal government is society? We need to send trillions of dollars to washington DC to be civilized? Say what? Think about what you are saying. Please take 15 minutes and read the link in my sig.
Well said!
__________________
"I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves."
Ludwig Wittgenstein

"demography is destiny"
rgregoryb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 07:16   #162
Stubudd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kennesaw GA
Posts: 4,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
This is fundamentally false. Keep telling yourself this, it will just cost the GOP another election.
I can't find his original quote to quote but i agree with yours. Obama turned out 10 million or so LESS people. He was so beatable. Only the pathetic GoP and could have managed to lose to this guy. The answer is so obvious if the knuckleheads will just accept it. "Leave people alone, keep the government out of peoples' lives, and reduce the size of it altogether".

If the GoP was actually interested in doing any of those things, they could have sent obama to oblivion in a landslide. Even a pathetic candidate like lying flip flopping un-charismatic snake of a man romney almost managed to win. Of course the GoP honchos and the big money behind them would rather nominate romney and lose than really risk their own power by nominating someone who might actually reduce it. That's the real problem. The mind melting media backed by those same people, fox news and all the rest.
Stubudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 07:19   #163
Stubudd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kennesaw GA
Posts: 4,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubudd View Post
You say people are selfish- how is not selfish to take money from the government for people that could be working but won't? How is keeping what you have worked for more selfish than taking money from somebody else?
It may be that you didn't say that and i'm confusing who said what here and in other threads. That post was meant generally anyway, no offense
Stubudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 07:56   #164
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,702


They seem to have gotten quiet when that chart came out.

In college I had a job mowing grass at a section 8 apartment complex. If we went in the afternoon the welfare leeches would steal all of our equipment so we learned to go first thing in the morning. Leeches tend to sleep late.
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 08:21   #165
IvanVic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubudd View Post
Supplying the whole country with a safety net, or spending trillions of dollars to destroy health care, education and everything else they touch? That's what those programs have done. Why are higher education costs leaving most of a generation as indentured servants hopelessly indebted for the rest of their lives? Why do textbooks cost $150? Because the feds guaranteed money to everybody and corrupted the market. Schools charge more because they know the government is paying for it. The kids say we can't afford it, so the politicians promise more. The schools charge even more. Endless repeat, until they are charging $150 for a frickin book.

The exact same thing with the housing market- government backs mortgages that shouldn't have been made, so everybody can buy a house- prices inflate- reality eventually sets in, housing crash.

Same thing in health care. Medicare and other programs inflate prices and distort the market- an aspirin tablet costs $20 at the hospital. People ask the politicians to help them pay, even though the government created the horrible situation in the first place. Even more programs- obamacare. Even worse situation, eventually- reality will set in there too.

It's always the same. Always. More government is never the right answer. You can't save all the people, not in the real world. You say it's not realistic to think charity would be able to supply a safety net to the whole country. Who knows? Maybe if everybody didn't feel like half their money was already being confiscated by force for that safety net, more would be willing to donate some. Maybe it would only be enough to cover those who really need it, instead of being used to buy votes from leeches that won't work. God forbid. You say people are selfish- how is not selfish to take money from the government for people that could be working but won't? How is keeping what you have worked for more selfish than taking money from somebody else?

What kind of person believes they have a right to live at another's expense, from another's labor? A thief. Using the government as intermediary, as muscle, just makes one a thief by proxy. CF is right, obviously. Maybe gunhaver should pause to consider why health care is so expensive in the first place. The root of the problem is always the same.



The federal government is society? We need to send trillions of dollars to washington DC to be civilized? Say what? Think about what you are saying. Please take 15 minutes and read the link in my sig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubudd View Post
Supplying the whole country with a safety net, or spending trillions of dollars to destroy health care, education and everything else they touch?
Supplying a safety net, and nothing more. I don't think we need to spend anymore money on education. Much of what we've already spent has been wasted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubudd View Post
You say it's not realistic to think charity would be able to supply a safety net to the whole country. Who knows?
Anyone that is being remotely realistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubudd View Post
What kind of person believes they have a right to live at another's expense, from another's labor? A thief.
Using this logic, every single American is a thief, because they ALL partake in some type of entitlement. Some people conveniently think that only food stamps are entitlements, or only poor minorities get entitlements. That's the attitude harbored by about 90% of the posters in this section.

I understand your point, and I agree with some of it. On the other hand, you are not being realistic when it comes to certain things. What you're preaching as a whole is never going to happen. Ever. I promise you. The quicker the libertarians in this country understand that, the faster we can stop the democratic party from engraving their liberal agenda into our law books. Forget liberals and moderates, even the conservative party does not agree with most of the stuff that comes from posters like certifiedfunds. He has said, multiple times, that if we just started turning away people who show up to the ER that had a heart attack but don't have health insurance, they'd die in the parking lot, and this would be a step in the right direction for our country. If he sincerely believes this, good for him, and he can preach that message all he wants, as long as he does so far away from the Republican party. I don't want him, or any other person that believes this stuff, costing us another election. The moron in the debate crowd during the primaries that cheered "Yeah!!!" when the moderator asked if the person without health insurance should die in the parking lot was played over and over and over again by the media and permanently connected to the Republican party. So were the handful of jackasses that booed the gay soldier during the primary debates. If the Republican party cannot banish these extremists from their ranks, I promise you, the democrats will win every election from here on out.

As I said before, issues like gay marriage, bible thumping, abortion, etc., invoke a lot of emotion, and I'm almost certain that the far right will not be able to walk away from them. They'll be back in 2016 with the same message, and we'll lose again, unless the economy is godawful, and I mean GODAWFUL. The economy blows and Obama was able to win this election. The demographics will be even more in their favor come 2016, unless the GOP does something to broaden their horizons and win over women and Latinos.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
IvanVic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 08:43   #166
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,702


There was a time when businessmen built libraries, and nuns built hospitals and schools.

Charity certainly can't do it when government sucks 50% out of the productive class and regulates the economy down to a idle.

Will charity voluntarily provide the volume of wealth the government does? No, but we can't afford it anyways. However it will also make more efficient use of the resources it receives.

Liberty doesn't work well under the umbrella of socialism.
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 11:02   #167
IndianaMatt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
They seem to have gotten quiet when that chart came out.

In college I had a job mowing grass at a section 8 apartment complex. If we went in the afternoon the welfare leeches would steal all of our equipment so we learned to go first thing in the morning. Leeches tend to sleep late.
There are many things I disagree with on "the chart." But the chart seems to support Obamacare, since it makes clear that a massive proportion of Americans currently have no way of paying their own way for healthcare.

I'm guessing you're not a very devout Christian either. What would Jesus say of your "**** her. Let the poor biatch die in the street if she can't afford health care. Not my problem."

Last edited by IndianaMatt; 11-09-2012 at 11:03..
IndianaMatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 11:15   #168
czsmithGT
Senior Member
 
czsmithGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunhaver View Post

I'm not entitled to your money. It's not your money. It's everyone's
This is the most reprehensible thing I've read today. Or this century for that matter.
czsmithGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 11:23   #169
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,702


Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaMatt View Post
There are many things I disagree with on "the chart." But the chart seems to support Obamacare, since it makes clear that a massive proportion of Americans currently have no way of paying their own way for healthcare.

I'm guessing you're not a very devout Christian either. What would Jesus say of your "**** her. Let the poor biatch die in the street if she can't afford health care. Not my problem."
The chart doesn't invite agreement or disagreement. It is simply a statement of fact.

And it doesn't say a thing about the American people other than the fact that we are enslaving future generations with debt.

My faith aside Jesus said to care for the poor. Charity. Government isn't charity.

It's really bizarre to see you unable to admit that 100% of federal revenue is spent on welfare entitlement programs. You questioned the statistic so I provided you irresputible proof in color coded fashion.

I suppose what I always suspected was true: liberals are incapable of separating emotion from rational thought.
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 11:27   #170
427
 
427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: KUMSC
Posts: 7,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaMatt View Post
There are many things I disagree with on "the chart." But the chart seems to support Obamacare, since it makes clear that a massive proportion of Americans currently have no way of paying their own way for healthcare.
Now that Obamacare is a certainty with the resulting cut in hours those same people and a lot more, won't be able to afford anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaMatt View Post
I'm guessing you're not a very devout Christian either. What would Jesus say of your "**** her. Let the poor biatch die in the street if she can't afford health care. Not my problem."
Jesus condemned stealing, but then the disciples stole a donkey on his behalf.
__________________
Death twitches my ear. "Live," he says, "I am coming."
Virgil, Minor Poems

Enjoy yourself. It's later than you think.
427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 11:34   #171
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,702


Matt - that big Medicare slice is the reason WHY healthcare is unaffordable for some people.
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 11:53   #172
IndianaMatt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
The chart doesn't invite agreement or disagreement. It is simply a statement of fact.

And it doesn't say a thing about the American people other than the fact that we are enslaving future generations with debt.

My faith aside Jesus said to care for the poor. Charity. Government isn't charity.

It's really bizarre to see you unable to admit that 100% of federal revenue is spent on welfare entitlement programs. You questioned the statistic so I provided you irresputible proof in color coded fashion.

I suppose what I always suspected was true: liberals are incapable of separating emotion from rational thought.
Its not possible for anyone to separate moral arguments from policy ones. Policy inevitable involves moral judgments (i.e., "Shall we spend on the military, or on public schools?).

The above chart, however accurate, points out that there is something very wrong with how money is spent at the federal level.

A more useful discussion would be why the federal government spends so much on entitlement programs. You can't be suggesting that most of Americans would rather sit around collecting benefits, can you?

While I don't work in healthcare policy, it seems to me from that chart that there is a massive segment of people who can't afford to take care of themselves. Why is that?

Last edited by IndianaMatt; 11-09-2012 at 11:54..
IndianaMatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 11:59   #173
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,702


Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaMatt View Post
Its not possible for anyone to separate moral arguments from policy ones. Policy inevitable involves moral judgments (i.e., "Shall we spend on the military, or on public schools?).
Sure it is. Aren't you a lawyer? You should know that the fedgov doesn't have a constitutional role in public schools.

See? Done.

Quote:
The above chart, however accurate, points out that there is something very wrong with how money is spent at the federal level.
Most definitely. I agree.

Quote:
A more useful discussion would be why the federal government spends so much on entitlement programs. You can't be suggesting that most of Americans would rather sit around collecting benefits, can you?
You seriously don't know the answer to that? Even after this last election?

Quote:
While I don't work in healthcare policy, it seems to me from that chart that there is a massive segment of people who can't afford to take care of themselves. Why is that?
Same reason zoo animals will starve to death if released into the wild.

As to the healthcare questions, it isn't a healthcare question at all. It is a very, very basic economic question. It is the same reason the middle class can no longer afford a college education.
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 12:11   #174
IndianaMatt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Sure it is. Aren't you a lawyer? You should know that the fedgov doesn't have a constitutional role in public schools.

See? Done.



Most definitely. I agree.



You seriously don't know the answer to that? Even after this last election?



Same reason zoo animals will starve to death if released into the wild.

As to the healthcare questions, it isn't a healthcare question at all. It is a very, very basic economic question. It is the same reason the middle class can no longer afford a college education.
The constitution also doesn't say anything about the fed coordinating commercial flights in domestic airspace, though I would argue this is a pretty essential role for the FAA, not lending itself to being privatized.

But I suppose you are a constitutional literalist, so we're not gonna agree on fed v. state roles.

One of the things I do is bankruptcy. I'd say about 2/3 of couples who come in to our firm to file BK, do so after a major health "event" sent their finances into a downward spiral. Doing BK law, I'd say probably most Americans have no idea that all that separates them from the "good life" and total financial ruin is a year or two of very serious illness.

These aren't social "leeches." They're usually self-employed "Joe the Plumber" types, actually. Hardworking people. White.

The economics of medicine are broken. No other country in Europe forces people to file BK after getting sick. Here, its a virtual guarantee.

The zoo animals analogy doesn't quite work, because most people I know would rather take care of themselves, but are not able to once they get very sick.

Last edited by IndianaMatt; 11-09-2012 at 12:14..
IndianaMatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 12:20   #175
427
 
427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: KUMSC
Posts: 7,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaMatt View Post
Its not possible for anyone to separate moral arguments from policy ones. Policy inevitable involves moral judgments (i.e., "Shall we spend on the military, or on public schools?).
Is it moral to take from someone to give to someone else? The .gov can't give what it does if it doesn't take from someone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaMatt View Post
The above chart, however accurate, points out that there is something very wrong with how money is spent at the federal level.

A more useful discussion would be
why the federal government spends so much on entitlement programs. You can't be suggesting that most of Americans would rather sit around collecting benefits, can you?
The .gov, through promises made by politicians is why the feds spend money the way it does. It seems that a segment of the population has realized that it can vote itself stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaMatt View Post
While I don't work in healthcare policy, it seems to me from that chart that there is a massive segment of people who can't afford to take care of themselves. Why is that?
Where does the chart say that people can or can't afford anything?

When tax payer money is used, whatever it's used to fund becomes more expensive. Look at what federal money has done to the cost of education.
__________________
Death twitches my ear. "Live," he says, "I am coming."
Virgil, Minor Poems

Enjoy yourself. It's later than you think.
427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 22:50.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,182
332 Members
850 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42