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Old 11-10-2012, 19:27   #81
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I'm tired.
Nice to meet you tired. I'm Daniel.
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:41   #82
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The answer varies based on who you ask. Unless a person is a trainer, competitor or rich, it's pretty low. Most of the people I ask in a class/clinic/at the range are in the few hundred rounds a year category. I taught a class a few weeks ago and had the guys shoot about 150 rounds throught their carbines. Most of them said that was about their annual allotment. I'm at about 9500 through the ARs so far this year.
That's disappointing.


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If someone posts that they shoot 15k per year through their Bushmaster\DPMS\Stag\Doublestar\Rock River without any problem, do you really think the brand whores are going to believe them?
I did not say nor imply anything about the round count relating to the quality of the brand, nor did I even have that in mind. Inferiority complex or something?

...even if somebody says they have X number or rounds through their rifle without any problem...do you really expect people to believe them?

Reference my DPMS example where I was told to watch out for that ammo (Federal Lake City XM855) failing to fire.
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:46   #83
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Nice to meet you tired. I'm Daniel.
Lmao

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Old 11-10-2012, 19:52   #84
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That's disappointing.




I did not say nor imply anything about the round count relating to the quality of the brand, nor did I even have that in mind. Inferiority complex or something?

...even if somebody says they have X number or rounds through their rifle without any problem...do you really expect people to believe them?

Reference my DPMS example where I was told to watch out for that ammo (Federal Lake City XM855) failing to fire.
Sportacus, Warp Is neither a fan boy nor a guy who scours the world looking for things that support a unfounded opinion. He is a smart, inquisitive, thoughtful, and honest fellow who you should take at face value. There are varying opinions out there, and reasonable men will differ. Know that Warp is a guy who will help you know the issues better, and know yourself better as well.

Warp, would you believe that a significant number of my civilian carbine course students shoot at least part of it with a .22 to save on ammo cost? Leaves them more $ to spend on training!

Have you noticed how frequently I mention less expensive gear alternatives? Leaves shooters more money to spend on training. One cannot replace practice with products!
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Last edited by Matthew Courtney; 11-10-2012 at 19:57..
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:54   #85
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For reference I got my rifle in June. I have 1,300 rounds through it so far with another 400-500 scheduled for tomorrow, and I feel like I need to shoot a good bit more, but cannot afford it.

Also please note that often, including in this thread, I refer to it as my rifle, or my gun, or whatever (such as when I told the DPMS story) without even mentioning the brand. No need to name drop brand selection or preference in every post, you know?
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:02   #86
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Sportacus, Warp Is neither a fan boy nor a guy who scours the world looking for things that support a unfounded opinion. He is a smart, inquisitive, thoughtful, and honest fellow who you should take at face value. There are varying opinions out there, and reasonable men will differ. Know that Warp is a guy who will help you know the issues better, and know yourself better as well.
HUH? I don't know what to make of that.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:11   #87
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HUH? I don't know what to make of that.
My Apologies. I mistakenly believed that your reference to brand whores was directed at Warp, and was letting you know that he is not one.
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:29   #88
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My Apologies. I mistakenly believed that your reference to brand whores was directed at Warp, and was letting you know that he is not one.
Not at warp, just in general. Think about it. If someone posts that they have 30k rounds a year through a Stag AR with no problems, someone is going to call them a liar because that takes it to the next level. They just cannot have their brand outdone, and they desperately need validation that they have the "best".

I don't pay much attention to screen names.
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Old 11-10-2012, 22:03   #89
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Not at warp, just in general. Think about it. If someone posts that they have 30k rounds a year through a Stag AR with no problems, someone is going to call them a liar because that takes it to the next level. They just cannot have their brand outdone, and they desperately need validation that they have the "best".

I don't pay much attention to screen names.
No they are going to have one of those,
"oh yeah?" moments due to the manufacturers history. More so w/ other manufacturers but you get the idea.

That's the thing. People get defensive and start throwing out words like "snob" "brand whore" etc. when they feel their brand is being insulted.

Look at that 19 rounds at dirt clods w/ my DPMS thread where the author felt it neccessary to attempt to bad mouth one of the most consistent/ trusted company in the AR market.
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Old 11-10-2012, 23:24   #90
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I have shot Armalite and S&W rifles that worked. I have owned 2 Bushmasters (made 2006 and earlier) that worked and were/are decent. I have multiple Colts that work.


I have a stag arms SBR that will now function but had to be returned 3 times; I am the reason they were given an F rating by the BBB and apparently they have gotten worse in customer service- months later at least one other complaint was filed and their rating remains the same.

Last edited by zhix; 11-10-2012 at 23:24..
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:35   #91
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I keep seeing M4C getting thrown out as the end all authority, and people disparaging DSC guns. Lets face it, if you are not an approved vendor or a gun sold by the approved vendors on M4C everything else sucks (can we say conflict of interest).

I don't know the parts anymore because I just don't care, but DSC/JT supply or used to supply many parts for the "approved by M4C" companies. Which is sort of laughable consider what they charge. FWIW I've seen lemons come out of Wilson's. sorry if I'm stepping on any toes.

You need to inspect the gun you are buying.

Sorry for any typos.




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Smart man!

BCM and GR OWM M4C.

M4C is exactly where all the brand hate originated and gets parroted by the good ole boy pawns. They know who they are.
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:40   #92
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Smart man!

BCM and GR OWM M4C.
OWM (OWN)? First time I heard of this. Any supporting documentation? If you're correct does it somehow change anything?
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:19   #93
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I don't think he's speaking literally.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:29   #94
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I don't think he's speaking literally.
I don't think he knows what he's speaking of, literally.

If a product is good it garners a following. It is weird that anyone would dislike something for being of extreme quality and a great value.

The same line of thinking goes for dislikeing someone because they have more experience. There seems to be a lot of dislike for M4C on GT yet there is a lot more knowledge based posts over at M4C. Kinda like the way girls always seem to dislike the girl all the guys want to date for no other reason than all the boys want to date her.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:12   #95
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M4C is exactly where all the brand hate originated and gets parroted by the good ole boy pawns. They know who they are.
Brand hatred has been around longer than M4C
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:15   #96
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The same line of thinking goes for dislikeing someone because they have more experience. There seems to be a lot of dislike for M4C on GT yet there is a lot more knowledge based posts over at M4C. Kinda like the way girls always seem to dislike the girl all the guys want to date for no other reason than all the boys want to date her.
Yep that's the kind of arrogant attitude, everyone hates. You know, the girl that takes herself WAY too seriously then you get out of High School, and realize she wasn't all that.

Look I appreciate knowledge base, but you have to admit the "I'm so hard it hurts as I type this" attitude gets old over there. Warrior talk is the only forum that's worse. I will say that most acredited individuals don't come off that way, on any forum.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:36   #97
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Buy once... cry once.

Colt
LMT
BCM
Noveske
DD
LWRC
LaRue
POF
JPE
Stag
HK
FN

The budget ARs are fine for occasional plinking, but if you use one for extended periods of shooting, you'll see why they are less expensive (i.e. cheap).

Just my opinion.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:47   #98
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Yep that's the kind of arrogant attitude, everyone hates. You know, the girl that takes herself WAY too seriously then you get out of High School, and realize she wasn't all that.

Look I appreciate knowledge base, but you have to admit the "I'm so hard it hurts as I type this" attitude gets old over there. Warrior talk is the only forum that's worse. I will say that most acredited individuals don't come off that way, on any forum.
Imagine giving rock solid advice over and over mostly about the same 2-3 topics based on hands-on experience. Then a couple guys that spend a couple weekends a year shooting dirt clods at the farm start some "just fine" "good enough" BS.

I think the "I'm so hard...." attitude is a misconception by those who have had their feelings hurt. But I do agree if you're not aware it can be abrasive at first.

I don't know a fraction of what some of those guys know and I find myself getting annoyed at times. I can imagine making the effort to candy coat things quickly becomes labor intensive. I personally like M4C for the direct and to the point information. I'm not looking for conversation and it saves time. Blunt works. We are men after all.
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:40   #99
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Imagine giving rock solid advice over and over mostly about the same 2-3 topics based on hands-on experience. Then a couple guys that spend a couple weekends a year shooting dirt clods at the farm start some "just fine" "good enough" BS.
Yeah, I get all that, comes with the territory of being on the internet though. In the same sense you have guys that have no-name rifles with thousands of rounds through them and some will keep telling them they bought a POS because it wasn't a BCM, Nov, Colt, etc etc....

Now I'm not saying buy the cheapest by any means, I'm just saying there's a LOT of gray area it seems.



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I think the "I'm so hard...." attitude is a misconception by those who have had their feelings hurt.
Nah, speaking for myself, I've been out in the real world long enough to understand some guys are insecure and have to throw their virtual d$cks out once in awhile to feel better. Happens quite often behind a computer for sure, but I will say again, that most acredited individuals don't act that way from my experience.


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I don't know a fraction of what some of those guys know and I find myself getting annoyed at times. I can imagine making the effort to candy coat things quickly becomes labor intensive. I personally like M4C for the direct and to the point information. I'm not looking for conversation and it saves time. Blunt works. We are men after all.
Yeah, preachin to the choir here again...... try working in an ER sometime. I think the manner by which information is relayed isn't the problem. It's the self-perceived absolutism.

Last edited by MD357; 11-11-2012 at 10:50..
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:50   #100
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Yeah, I get all that, comes with the territory of being on the internet though. In the same sense you have guys that have no-name rifles with thousands of rounds through them and some will keep telling them they bought a POS because it wasn't a BCM, Nov, Colt, etc etc....

Now I'm not saying buy the cheapest by any means, I'm just saying there's a LOT of gray area it seems.

Nah, speaking for myself, I've been out in the real world long enough to understand some guys are insecure and have to throw their virtual d$cks out once in awhile to feel better. Happens quite often behind a computer for sure, but I will say again, that most acredited individuals don't act that way from my experience.

Yeah, I get all that...... try working in an ER sometime. I think the manner by which information is relayed isn't the problem. It's the self-perceived absolutism.
There are always exceptions to every rule for sure. I think we are on the same page for the most part.
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