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Old 11-23-2012, 21:39   #1
ithaca_deerslayer
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Gruesome hunting day, for the deer.

I was hunting with two of my brothers. I wasn't much trying for a deer because there's already two in my freezer.

So we hunt in the morning sitting in tree stands. Nice out, I saw a big gray squirrel. After a while I figure we're heading toward lunch. I walk back and they decide to work thick tangled hedgerow.

One brother walks in, can't see him, other one waiting outside it on the middle, I take up the end. Boom, first brother shot at something. Then, boom boom boom, as second brother shoots. It's down he yells, heading in. Not dead yet. First brother says don't use a slug, shoot him with your pistol. 2nd brother decides to head shoot the mercy kill with a Sig .380. Bad idea, cause I'm not sure it will work. One shot and the deer is moving again. Find him a few yards later, down again, terrible gut shot, and lower jaw shot, both of those being 12ga slug hits. Don't know where or if the .380 hit, was supposed to be the head.

Want me to finish him off? Hunting Contender left back at the truck ( I thought he had the deer down and done). I pull my Glock 26 with Gold Dots. Maybe 7 feet away. Bam, headshot, he stops breathing, all quiet, all done. Second brother goes to drag him out. Grabs hold and legs start kicking!

Move aside, bam, another headshot, deer still not breathing, still seems dead. Grabs legs, and deer starts kicking again. What the? Bam, bam, and repeat. Bam, bam bam. Bam bam bam bam. Jeepers creapers, 11 shots drill through the skull between the ear and the eye. My first shot did the mercy kill on that deer, must have, no breathing after that. Not sure why the legs moved, kicking. Reflex like a chicken?

Turns out first brother actually shot a dfferent deer. He had been tracking while we were playing 20 bullets. There she goes! We scramble down there into position, me grabbing my Contender on the way. He catches up with her, BAM. I get there and she tries to get up. Shot through the front shoulders from his first shot, and the back the second shot. He figures she's probably lunged and dead in 10 seconds. Head shot to be sure? No he sayd, she'll die any second, and then she did.

Go get tractor. Who's gutting? I'm not guttin, all brothers say. What a freaking mess 1st brother guts them out. The gut shot one makes him want to puke but he doesn't. Done, ready for buthering.

Man, those rushed jump shots are just not my style. I think my 9mm headshot put that deer out. Legs kicking was some natural zombie mode, not conscious. The brains were blown out yet it still kicked when grabbed.
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Old 11-23-2012, 22:16   #2
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I don't care how long somene has hunted, how many times their pet caliber has worked "perfectly" the very next time something like that can happen. It's part of the deal and the responsibility.
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Old 11-23-2012, 22:42   #3
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I shot a deer once rearward through the eye and it removed most of her brain. It seemed like at least five minutes later she was still moving her back legs some. Sometimes it just doesn't go as we think it should.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:25   #4
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I shot a deer once rearward through the eye and it removed most of her brain. It seemed like at least five minutes later she was still moving her back legs some. Sometimes it just doesn't go as we think it should.
Thanks, that helps. I wonder more about the physiology of it. But I'm glad to know I'm not crazy.

I gave the deer a quick clean finishing brain shot when I entered the scene. The deer appeared to go lifeless. We thought we were done, and then the chaos I described above kept going on.

My only guess as this point is maybe there is a higher brain and a lower brain, different regions. And maybe one part can be blown out and the animal seemingly dead. But then the other part still functioning on some level to keep those legs kicking.

A 10mm could have had the same result, or more likely the initially punch through of the bullet would have given a wider destructive path and maybe taken out more of the brain for a better finishing kill shot. Or maybe it would have taken multiple 10mm shots.

Maybe the kicking wasn't related to the brain?

It is hard to say how much time went by before I got the kicking stopped. 30 seconds, a minute, 2 minutes. Don't know. But that gut shot deer was going to take up to a day or two to die if nothing was done.

My first lesson, that I already knew myself, is I'm not not taking a running shot without the confidence and skill to heart lung the deer. Gut shots are to be avoided. I'd like to think I would not have tsken the shot my brother did.

My second lesson is deer that are not heart/lung shot and need another kill shot should have it done with the main hunting weapon.

Brother was an idiot to use the .380. You guys can judge in your opinion whether the use of the 9mm puts me in the idiot category too. I had it on me for self-defense, not for hunting. But had set my hunting gun down because I thought my brother was done. After crawling into the thickets to the deer, all I had with me there was my 9.

Maybe the 9 was fine but the kill shot was off. The deer was brained no doubt, but maybe not good enough. I will reseach that some more. The angle used is what I had available to me from where I was. Not easy to move around in there, so that's part of the difficulty. I was shooting from the side and not directly in front to do the traditional farm X marks the spot. My aim was between the bass of the ear and the eye.

Researching this best placement from the side, and other angles, will be my lesson number 3.
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:36   #5
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You gonna mount that head?
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Old 11-24-2012, 18:30   #6
ithaca_deerslayer
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You gonna mount that head?
Pretty much just one clean hole drilled through the head. I shoot tight groups
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:35   #7
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I killed a deer this year - one shot one kill. And I was using a bow and arrow.

Next time, give it some time before you run up on them. If the first shot hit vitals, they will die without putting eleven 9mm rounds into their brain.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:52   #8
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Animals shot in the head tend to either turn off like you hit a switch, or they kick / flail around for a while. Not sure why, but you got the latter.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:39   #9
ithaca_deerslayer
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I killed a deer this year - one shot one kill. And I was using a bow and arrow.

Next time, give it some time before you run up on them. If the first shot hit vitals, they will die without putting eleven 9mm rounds into their brain.
No vitals, gut shot and jaw shot. That deer was not going to die for hours or the next day.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:01   #10
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I take it your brothers are new to both hunting and shooting?

How the *$^% do you manage to shoot a deer in the jaw, or decide to use a .380?

I do the same thing every time - shoot the deer one time, then sit still for a couple of hours waiting for another one (unless that's my second or it's dark) then go get him and field dress him. Nobody ever told them to sit still and wait for a wounded deer to die?

If you can't do that, stay up north and buy beef at the store.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:46   #11
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With a name like Ithacadeerslayer you would think he would have seen this dozens of times before.

Pheasants move even after you put them in the game bag, frog legs jump and move hours after they are dead and soaking in salt water, rabbits kick even when are you carrying them, and a deer has its involuntary reflexes if you are there as it dies or right after.

No reason to shoot them all again.

And I also subscribe to the theory if you can't make a clean one-shot kill, don't pull the trigger.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:09   #12
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Sad to hear about such a messy kill, the offending gut shooter should have done his job and cleaned it.
Hopefully a lesson was learned.
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Old 11-25-2012, 18:38   #13
ithaca_deerslayer
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I take it your brothers are new to both hunting and shooting?

How the *$^% do you manage to shoot a deer in the jaw, or decide to use a .380?

I do the same thing every time - shoot the deer one time, then sit still for a couple of hours waiting for another one (unless that's my second or it's dark) then go get him and field dress him. Nobody ever told them to sit still and wait for a wounded deer to die?

If you can't do that, stay up north and buy beef at the store.
No, they not new, not by a long shot. 380 idea was goofy, that's for sure. New gun, I guess he was willing to try it out.

Gut shot deer wasn't gonna die. The jaw hit, as well as the gut hit, were both bad shots on a running deer.
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Old 11-25-2012, 18:47   #14
ithaca_deerslayer
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Originally Posted by Jonesee View Post
With a name like Ithacadeerslayer you would think he would have seen this dozens of times before.

Pheasants move even after you put them in the game bag, frog legs jump and move hours after they are dead and soaking in salt water, rabbits kick even when are you carrying them, and a deer has its involuntary reflexes if you are there as it dies or right after.

No reason to shoot them all again.

And I also subscribe to the theory if you can't make a clean one-shot kill, don't pull the trigger.
I don't have much experience happening upon wounded deer. My own shots tend to be double lung, and the deer is dead by time I get to it.

Yeah, the deer would have died soon after my 1st headshot. But I was surprised it wasn't the magic off switch.

I guess no extra harm with additional shots as I was trying to get a complete shutdown of all movements. All shots were in the same area of the head.

I agree with you about the one shot kill.

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Old 11-25-2012, 19:01   #15
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My friends and I used to trap rabbits when I was a boy. We would hold them up by the back feet and give them a sharp karate chop to the back of the neck. Normally that killed them instantly. I remember one though that started kicking, my friend let go, and it ran around a bit. One of us picked it up, gave it another whack, and it's head went flying. He probably ably was actually dead the first time.

A heart shot deer will often run pretty far. Be patient.
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Old 11-25-2012, 20:44   #16
ithaca_deerslayer
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Well, it seems the kicking reflexes come from the spinal column:

http://m.wikihow.com/Slaughter-Cattle
"Before and during the sticking process many people who have viewed videos of animal slaughter or have personally watched the slaughter process observed that the animals' legs were still moving and kicking as their throats were being slit, and this has lead them to believe that the animal was still alive after being stunned or killed.**This is false.**Leg movements are merely unconscious reflexes that are initiated by synapses that come from not the brain itself because the brain would already be non-functioning after being killed, but the spinal cord. Even decapitated animals will kick."

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Old 11-25-2012, 20:45   #17
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As stated this is typical of head shot animals. There are cases of animals being euthanized and continuing to kick and such. A horse actually killed someone hours after it was put down when a kick from the horse hit a mans head or so i've heard.
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Old 11-25-2012, 20:49   #18
ithaca_deerslayer
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A heart shot deer will often run pretty far. Be patient.
Yes I know about that, have done it many times.

It was gut shot. The heart and lungs were fine, upon dressing they came out intact and in good shape. Thus that deer had many hours to go, unless a kill shot was administered.
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Old 11-25-2012, 20:57   #19
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I think you have to take out the brain stem (like a neck shot) for them to drop and not kick around. Just a brain shot leaves the stem to control some involuntary spasms.

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Old 11-25-2012, 21:12   #20
ithaca_deerslayer
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As stated this is typical of head shot animals. There are cases of animals being euthanized and continuing to kick and such. A horse actually killed someone hours after it was put down when a kick from the horse hit a mans head or so i've heard.
Thanks, I wouldn't doubt the horse story.

Some deer people say to slit the throat. The kick danger makes that a bit risky, in my opinion
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