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Old 11-17-2012, 20:03   #21
t4terrific
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Originally Posted by old wanderer View Post
Got admit it is fun to live in interesting time...

In casual talks with my LEO friends, they just laugh when the talk comes up about bans and confiscation....."Who is going to risk their lives to enforce such an unconstitutional law"

Do you think Big Sis will accomplish the stated goal of Obama to "have a civilian defense force equal to and as well equipped as our military". ? If so who will serve in it?

Maye we all should volunteer, and then take it apart from the inside...
Yeah right!

First of all, cops don't have civilian friends. Second, cops enforce laws regardless of constitutionality, and regardless of personal convictions. They do what they're told. Bottom line. They certainly aren't concerned with a civilian's ability to have weapons
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Old 11-17-2012, 20:16   #22
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Yeah right!

First of all, cops don't have civilian friends. Second, cops enforce laws regardless of constitutionality, and regardless of personal convictions. They do what they're told. Bottom line. They certainly aren't concerned with a civilian's ability to have weapons
Yeah, because all cops are mindless robots.
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Old 11-17-2012, 20:16   #23
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the "little flip up thingy on the barrel" outlawed
Oh that's funny. Don't know what it is or what it's for, but lets outlaw it.
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Old 11-17-2012, 23:55   #24
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Originally Posted by old wanderer View Post
Got admit it is fun to live in interesting time...

In casual talks with my LEO friends, they just laugh when the talk comes up about bans and confiscation....."Who is going to risk their lives to enforce such an unconstitutional law"

Do you think Big Sis will accomplish the stated goal of Obama to "have a civilian defense force equal to and as well equipped as our military". ? If so who will serve in it?

Maye we all should volunteer, and then take it apart from the inside...
Not saying it will happen, but to answer you question who will. Ask the people of New Orleans. "some" local and imported cops and Feds that's who. The UN is chomping at the bit for the chance too. I don't foresee it in the near future but the people in New Orleans didn't believe it would ever happen either. Never say never or it "can't" happen.
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Old 11-18-2012, 00:09   #25
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So the media outlets are saying that feinseins new AWB will not contain any grandfathering???

Can this be true?

I cant imagine the Gov taking thousands of dollars worth of property away from even a single person. I would think that there would have to be a grandfather clause of some sort.
All I have to say is if someone thinks in the United States of America that they are gonna just waltz on in everyone's house and steal whatever property they want, those people are criminals and should be dealt with as such. I don't give a damn who they are. This is not England, this is not North Korea, Cuba or Venezuela.

It's simple...in case anyone doesn't have the Bill of Rights memorized (FACT: Many gun owners only know the first 2), then here I will gladly post all 10 amendments below for you to lock into your memory. You will see that many of the people currently (and formerly) occupying our government have already violated those in many ways.


Bill of Rights: (1st 10 Amendments to the Constitution):

Amendment 1

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment 2

A well regulated Militia, (this means an armed public, anyone who knows anything about the founding fathers' vision for America, knows that), being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment 3

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment 4

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment 5

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment 6

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Amendment 7

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment 8

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment 9

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment 10

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


After reading this, it's pretty clear that our government does not respect our freedom, and we all know they have zero interest in keeping us safe from criminals. So as far as I am concerned, they can ban whatever guns they want, but never will the day come that I just hand over any that I currently own or will own in the future. I'd cut them in half with a torch before I did that. But I wouldn't do that either. But if you stop and think about the rush to buy guns because people think they are gonna be banned, it's pretty obvious not many people plan on "handing them over" either. And Feinstein, **** that old witch.

Last edited by Chris Brines; 11-18-2012 at 00:12..
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Old 11-18-2012, 00:18   #26
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Originally Posted by old wanderer View Post

Do you think Big Sis will accomplish the stated goal of Obama to "have a civilian defense force equal to and as well equipped as our military". ? If so who will serve in it?

.

Just sayin'

Last edited by Chris Brines; 11-18-2012 at 00:19..
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:02   #27
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That vid has a few tid bits of BS in it that really make it hard to believe.

Training ammo vs. hollow point ammo for instance. As far as I know, most if not all of these agencies use the same ammo to train with as what they carry. They carry hollow points.

Another poster did a rough calculation (I think it was on this forum) about the number of people trained at FLETC. There are a lot of rounds being put down range for training purposes.

Also, the contract for ammo IIRC was for "up to" a certain amount over a 5 year period, not all at once. This is very common for govt. contract with everything from bullets to boots. It leaves the requesting entity the ability to cut short the quantity at some point if they find that they no longer need the full amount.

Finally, in my opinion, why would a govt. agency only be ordering pistol ammo if they were planning on shooting or rounding up civilians? It does not make sense to me. When was the last time you saw any LEO in a tactical situation with just a sidearm? They always have long guns when they expect trouble. If they are intending on using that amount of ammo then that would be expecting trouble and pistols are simply not enough. Where are the rifle ammo contracts?

Why did the report not address any of the issues that I have brought up? I think the answer to that is because they want to stir up emotions and draw attention to their product (their news broadcasts and websites)
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:45   #28
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Yeah, because all cops are mindless robots.
Disobeying orders means no more job.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:15   #29
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All I have to say is if someone thinks in the United States of America that they are gonna just waltz on in everyone's house and steal whatever property they want, those people are criminals and should be dealt with as such. I don't give a damn who they are. This is not England, this is not North Korea, Cuba or Venezuela.

It's simple...in case anyone doesn't have the Bill of Rights memorized (FACT: Many gun owners only know the first 2), then here I will gladly post all 10 amendments below for you to lock into your memory. You will see that many of the people currently (and formerly) occupying our government have already violated those in many ways.
Again, I don't see it happening nation wide. However! I checked and the Bill of Rights was in effect when they waltzed right in and took them in New Orleans and surrounding Parishes. I also double checked to make sure our state constitution was in effect and said it was unlawful at the time they waltzed right in and took them. Yes it was! Words on paper don't stop politicians and the Jack Booted Drones that blindly follow their orders. And where were all the "GOOD" cops. I've talked to several "officers" that were in the city and on duty at the time. They claim they didn't participate. They get insulted when I ask; so you didn't take any guns? What did you did you do to the criminals (LEO's) that were stealing them? "Oh, they were just following orders". Now where have I hear that before?

Will "ALL" LEO's participate in a confiscation. No! But I also predict few, very few would do anything to stop it. And "MOST" citizens will just hand them over.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:28   #30
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Disobeying orders means no more job.
And if the Sheriff or Chief refuses to give the order? Have you considered that possibility? Not all law enforcement agencies are run by anti gunners.
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Old 11-18-2012, 13:18   #31
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Again, I don't see it happening nation wide. However! I checked and the Bill of Rights was in effect when they waltzed right in and took them in New Orleans and surrounding Parishes. I also double checked to make sure our state constitution was in effect and said it was unlawful at the time they waltzed right in and took them. Yes it was! Words on paper don't stop politicians and the Jack Booted Drones that blindly follow their orders. And where were all the "GOOD" cops. I've talked to several "officers" that were in the city and on duty at the time. They claim they didn't participate. They get insulted when I ask; so you didn't take any guns? What did you did you do to the criminals (LEO's) that were stealing them? "Oh, they were just following orders". Now where have I hear that before?

Will "ALL" LEO's participate in a confiscation. No! But I also predict few, very few would do anything to stop it. And "MOST" citizens will just hand them over.
Good post. Very good post.
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Old 11-18-2012, 15:29   #32
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Again, I don't see it happening nation wide. However! I checked and the Bill of Rights was in effect when they waltzed right in and took them in New Orleans and surrounding Parishes. I also double checked to make sure our state constitution was in effect and said it was unlawful at the time they waltzed right in and took them. Yes it was! Words on paper don't stop politicians and the Jack Booted Drones that blindly follow their orders. And where were all the "GOOD" cops. I've talked to several "officers" that were in the city and on duty at the time. They claim they didn't participate. They get insulted when I ask; so you didn't take any guns? What did you did you do to the criminals (LEO's) that were stealing them? "Oh, they were just following orders". Now where have I hear that before?

Will "ALL" LEO's participate in a confiscation. No! But I also predict few, very few would do anything to stop it. And "MOST" citizens will just hand them over.
Finally a post by Jerry I can agree with 100%.
It's easy to post on the internet we'd never give up our guns, but when a dozen people in tactical gear show up, I doubt many people would go out blasting away.
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Old 11-18-2012, 15:45   #33
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Finally a post by Jerry I can agree with 100%.
It's easy to post on the internet we'd never give up our guns, but when a dozen people in tactical gear show up, I doubt many people would go out blasting away.
If you haven't set up an ambush in another neighborhood when they come for your guns, you're too late. Waiting at home for a stand off is planning for failure.
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Old 11-18-2012, 16:54   #34
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Again, I don't see it happening nation wide. However! I checked and the Bill of Rights was in effect when they waltzed right in and took them in New Orleans and surrounding Parishes. I also double checked to make sure our state constitution was in effect and said it was unlawful at the time they waltzed right in and took them. Yes it was! Words on paper don't stop politicians and the Jack Booted Drones that blindly follow their orders. And where were all the "GOOD" cops. I've talked to several "officers" that were in the city and on duty at the time. They claim they didn't participate. They get insulted when I ask; so you didn't take any guns? What did you did you do to the criminals (LEO's) that were stealing them? "Oh, they were just following orders". Now where have I hear that before?

Will "ALL" LEO's participate in a confiscation. No! But I also predict few, very few would do anything to stop it. And "MOST" citizens will just hand them over.
I think alot of people are prepared for a NOLA style gun grab attempt. Gun owners talk about these things every single day now. Most have zero intentions of handing their guns over. Now, how they intend to go about not doing that, is another story. People have woken up DRASTICALLY since 05. All I know is I am not handing over my guns to anyone.

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Old 11-18-2012, 20:30   #35
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I think alot of people are prepared for a NOLA style gun grab attempt. Gun owners talk about these things every single day now. Most have zero intentions of handing their guns over. Now, how they intend to go about not doing that, is another story. People have woken up DRASTICALLY since 05. All I know is I am not handing over my guns to anyone.
I'm sceptical about anyone really being prepared an am very doubtful that more than a handful would put up any restance. They may try to hide their guns but I feel if it's time to hide them it's time to use them. Very very few are prepared to use them.
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Old 11-18-2012, 21:15   #36
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"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."

When will the sheeple wake up. Has history taught us nothing.
The Govt has the ability to shut down the internet and bar certain news reports and all the major networks have been anti-gun for a long time and would not hesitate to go along with the administration on this.
I know what people are saying they will do but lets face it, with no organization and/or time to organize how many will actually stand up alone and die for the right to own a firearm? Not too damn many I fear.
All just hypothetical now so don't get all excited about it.
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Old 11-18-2012, 21:18   #37
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I'm sceptical about anyone really being prepared an am very doubtful that more than a handful would put up any restance. They may try to hide their guns but I feel if it's time to hide them it's time to use them. Very very few are prepared to use them.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. That's about all I can say on that subject. On GlockTalk anyway.

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Old 11-19-2012, 15:39   #38
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Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. That's about all I can say on that subject. On GlockTalk anyway.
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Old 11-19-2012, 15:48   #39
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I hope she's successful and they come to collect them. It's time we get all this crap settled once and for all.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:49   #40
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Originally Posted by expatman View Post
Another poster did a rough calculation (I think it was on this forum) about the number of people trained at FLETC. There are a lot of rounds being put down range for training purposes.

That is correct. Check out Post #10 of this thread here:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...&highlight=dhs


Quote:
Originally Posted by NewCop761

I qualify quarterly. (For those of you alarmed by the article, that means FOUR times each year.)

Between qualification and training I shoot about 200 - 250 rounds on a training day.
That means I use about 1,000 rounds of .40 a year. Contrary to the linked article, we only shoot our carry ammo. Wasteful, yeah I think so, but that's how we do it.

CJStudent already mentioned FLETC. He didn't mention that there are several FLETC locations:
FLETC Glynco
FLETC Artesia
FLETC Charleston
FLETC Cheltenham
FLETC International (Hungary, Thailand, Botswana, and El Salvador)

On top of that here are the majority of gun-toters that fall under the umbrella of DHS. This doesn't include DHS-OIG and I didn't include the U.S. Coast Guard. I know they carry the Sig P229 in .40 also.

8,500 Special Agents HSI
7,000 Deportation Officers & Immigration Enforcement Agents
21,370 Border Patrol agents
21,186 CBP Officers
4,400 +/- Secret Service Special Agents + Uniformed Divison
???? Federal Air Marshals
And Post #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-1
I am at a loss as to what the problem is.

At my agency, each officer shoots 50 rounds per month at the range and qualifies once per quarter. On top of that, each officer probably shoot another 100 round per year practicing new drills. That comes out to 700 rounds per officer, per year. We shoot the same ammo at the range as we shoot in the field for reasons of civil liability. This way if someone sues us over an officer involved shooting, their lawyer can't claim we were unfamiliar with the characteristics of our duty ammo because we only shoot ball at the range.

I am going to assume the Fed follow a similar protocol. The article says the Feds bought 40,220,000 rounds. By my agency's standards that's enough annual practice ammo for 54,457 officers. So how many cops do the Feds have? Let's count -

8,500 Special Agents HSI
7,000 Deportation Officers & Immigration Enforcement Agents
21,370 Border Patrol agents
21,186 CBP Officers
4,400 +/- Secret Service Special Agents + Uniformed Division
295 Social Security Special Agents

Total 62,751

I'm sure there are a lot more, but lets just go with these.

62,751 Feds X 700 rounds per year = 43,925,700 rounds needed

OOPS. It looks like the Feds didn't order enough ammo for everyone to practice monthly at the range over the next fiscal year. They are either going to have to order 3,705,700 more rounds, or someone is going to have to skip going to the range, or they are going to have to stop shooting bad guys in the field.

Based on what the federal agents on this very forum are saying, it doesn't look like DHS ordered enough!


[quote=expatman;19643898]Also, the contract for ammo IIRC was for "up to" a certain amount over a 5 year period, not all at once. This is very common for govt. contract with everything from bullets to boots. It leaves the requesting entity the ability to cut short the quantity at some point if they find that they no longer need the full amount.[QUOTE]


I also believe that to be true, but regardless, they still don't have enough ammo for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by expatman View Post
Finally, in my opinion, why would a govt. agency only be ordering pistol ammo if they were planning on shooting or rounding up civilians? It does not make sense to me. When was the last time you saw any LEO in a tactical situation with just a sidearm? They always have long guns when they expect trouble. If they are intending on using that amount of ammo then that would be expecting trouble and pistols are simply not enough. Where are the rifle ammo contracts?

Why did the report not address any of the issues that I have brought up? I think the answer to that is because they want to stir up emotions and draw attention to their product (their news broadcasts and websites)
Exactly!

I am actually MORE worried about an economic collapse and rioting and pillaging than I am about a weapons seizure. Although after the rioting, the government will probably try. Assuming the government still has any effective control at all.


With the number of unregistered weapons out there, the government will have to steam-roll across the US to take control. Which I wouldn't put past a totalitarian government, but if that's the case, my little .223 rifles aren't going to do jack against tanks/APCs and a couple hundred (or thousand) guys.

Unless I have a couple of my own tanks (or some brave guys with rocket launchers and/or explosives) and a couple hundred of my own guys,

I will have bigger things to worry about. Like hiding out until they pass by.
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