[jame]

Originally Posted by ysr_racer

I'm voting Republican no matter what, can Evangelical Christians say the same thing?

Most do. I don't think most of you guys get that. The way it seems to me is that the evangelical vote is something that is not be valued by you guys. If you don't want our vote, just say so. It seems that many here already have.

And your wish may well come true.

(For the record- I did vote Republican last time. I don't need to be recognized. But you sure as hell don't want to disrespect me.)

[rednoved]

I'm not a religious person. I don't care if gay people want to get married. I have mixed views about MJ. I vote republican.

[PhotoFeller]

Originally Posted by arclight610

There are very many Republicans who are evangelicals. If you alienate them, it'll do more harm to the party than good.

Concern for preservation of the USA and all it stands for has to be greater than a hand full of fundamental beliefs. Politically, where would the religious right go?

[Henry's Dad]

When the "pro-life" party loses 50% of the Catholic vote to a guy who is decidedly non pro-life, then you have to ask if these issues still really get people worked up.

I know Catholics are demographically different from evangelicals, but the Catholic Church's position on abortion is pretty clear. Yet 50% of them voted for the pro-choice candidate.

True, Mitt did get more of the non-Hispanic (white) Catholic vote (~60%), but lost Latinos 71-29 overall.

And guess what? Latinos are a growing segment. White Catholics are a shrinking segment. Do the math for 20, 30, 40 years down the road.

Coming from their perspective, other (non-abortion related) social justice issues might be the driving factor in how they see themselves as Catholic voters.

[Harper]

Originally Posted by jame

Defend your statement.

Ok, no problem. The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. The crime category with the highest percentage... you guessed it -drugs. More people are in prison for drug related offenses at the state and federal level than for violent crime. Canada's rate is about 1/7 of ours. Has it led to social disorder and decay? I don't know, it certainly hasn't lead to lower math and science scores.

[Pwhfirefighter]

Originally Posted by ysr_racer

I'm voting Republican no matter what, can Evangelical Christians say the same thing?

Can I say that, sure I could, but I won't. For me it is about voting for the choice that is more along the lines that are important to me.

As far as forcing my beliefs on someone, this I will not do but I will not apologize for being a conservative Christian either. I do not like the thought of the government being able to make medical decisions for anyone, just don't expect me to support the use of taxes that I pay being used for things like abortion.

And for the record, I know of a lot of Christians who cast their "irrelevant" votes. And they weren't for who we are stuck with now.

[jame]

Originally Posted by Harper

Ok, no problem. The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. The crime category with the highest percentage... you guessed it -drugs. More people are in prison for drug related offenses at the state and federal level than for violent crime. Canada's rate is about 1/7 of ours. Has it led to social disorder and decay? I don't know, it certainly hasn't lead to lower math and science scores.

So, in other words, your big issue is MJ? But you can't focus your thoughts into a cognitive and relative response to the conversation? Yeah.......just go look at your hand. It'll be ok in a few hours.

Because as it comes to the conversation re: Evangelicals and the Republican party, you got nothing.....

[Harper]

Originally Posted by jame

So, in other words, your big issue is MJ?

No it's people in prison and the huge amount of money stolen from taxpayers to fund the drug enforcement industry. There's also the patriot act, ndaa, gay rights, abortion rights, non-recreational drug laws, and intelligent design in public schools.


"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
Albert Einstein, "My First Impression of the U.S.A.", 1921

[jame]

Originally Posted by Harper

No it's people in prison and the huge amount of money stolen from taxpayers to fund the drug enforcement industry. There's also the patriot act, ndaa, gay rights, abortion rights, non-recreational drug laws, and intelligent design in public schools.


"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
Albert Einstein, "My First Impression of the U.S.A.", 1921

So those sharing these concerns cost the Republicans the election?

(I'm going to bed soon, and I doubt anyone else will baby sit you. Either make your intelligent and well thought out contribution now, or fade away.)

I swear, it's like pulling teeth from this guy. Why am I doing this?

[jame]

Screw it.

Good night.

[Harper]

Originally Posted by jame

So those sharing these concerns cost the Republicans the election?

(I'm going to bed soon, and I doubt anyone else will baby sit you. Either make your intelligent and well thought out contribution now, or fade away.)

I swear, it's like pulling teeth from this guy. Why am I doing this?

That's ironic. You initiated our conversation with

The evangelicals do pose a threat to liberty.
This ought to be good.

Educate me.

That's a different question than "So those sharing these concerns cost the Republicans the election?" So to answer your new question and all the others you haven't asked yet - 42.

[czsmithGT]

Obama won with about 28% of the vote of those eligable to vote. When 40% of the people who could vote don't even bother this is what we get. Plus both parties are corrupt from top to bottom. Of the people who did bother to vote, repubs did horribly with blacks, latinos, asian, and youth demographics. Those are the groups who need to be educated that progressive socialism has/will ruin their chances of a good life. What can a reinvigorated republican party offer them to get their votes? Hint- it isn't any kind of religious fundamentalism.

[SunsetMan]

Originally Posted by czsmithGT

Obama won with about 28% of the vote of those eligable to vote. When 40% of the people who could vote don't even bother this is what we get. Plus both parties are corrupt from top to bottom. Of the people who did bother to vote, repubs did horribly with blacks, latinos, asian, and youth demographics. Those are the groups who need to be educated that progressive socialism has/will ruin their chances of a good life. What can a reinvigorated republican party offer them to get their votes? Hint- it isn't any kind of religious fundamentalism.

I'm against government handouts as a rule, but I'd like to see the republicans support student aid and education more. Unlike welfare, this is an investment.

[Captain Ron]

Originally Posted by ysr_racer

I maintain that until the Republicans ditch the Christian Conservative nonsense, we'll never win another election.

When I'm talking to my fellow Republicans, none of them ever mentions abortion, birth control, gay marriage, or marijuana.

The times have changed, if we don't, we'll end up like the dinosaurs. They were unwilling to change too.

What say you?

[lunarspeak]

the real sad thing is that we have huge group that has very republican values...the hispanic vote.

i know alot of latinos,mostly mexican and they want less goverment and are against abortion etc etc, the whole play book of the rep party but they only vote dem because the red party seems intent on makeing life hard on them.

as for the mj subject,ive never smoked it but it seems kinda stupid to try to ban something that a person can grow in thier closet..

[Restless28]

The religious right has money and power. If you exclude them, you weaken the party.

Somehow, the GOP has to figure out how to bring them and the libertarians in the tent.

But, frankly, I'm convinced that it won't happen and it doesn't matter anymore. We are living in strange times.

[Psychman]

Originally Posted by ysr_racer

Why did they stay home? A no vote is the same thing as a vote for Obama.

What were they thinking?

They all went to church or stayed home and prayed for a good outcome instead of voting.

[Big Bird]

Originally Posted by ysr_racer

I maintain that until the Republicans ditch the Christian Conservative nonsense, we'll never win another election.

When I'm talking to my fellow Republicans, none of them ever mentions abortion, birth control, gay marriage, or marijuana.

The times have changed, if we don't, we'll end up like the dinosaurs. They were unwilling to change too.

What say you?

This is an uninformed opinion. I'm not saying that to pick on you. I'm simply saying that if you look at the Conservative Christian Vote in the Republican Party it makes up well over 40% of the base. You loose that and you have a Voting Demographic that looks like this: Dems ~40% of Registered Voters. Rep ~23% of Registered Voters. Congratulations. You just made the party irrelevant.

There was nothing in the National Republican message this year that made it overtly religious. The Republicans got beat on the ground this year. They didn't turn out their base--for whatever reason. Romney got 10% fewer Republican voters than McCain! Yet somehow your formula for gaining back voters is to dismiss 40% of the party? Think about that for a moment and come back and tell me how that math works.

Reagan won BECAUSE of the Conservative Christian voters... Why did it work back then and not now? Again...think about it... Our Demographics haven't shifted THAT dramatically--some for sure.

Romney f-ed up. His strategy wasn't tight and the election required it to be tight. Obama and the Dems had their stuff wired. We didn't We got beat by the better team. Nobody likes to admit that but its what happened. We go around beating ourselves up over our message and our marketing and that's NOT what killed us. Our execution sucked. Pure and simple.

[frank4570]

The christians are one of the biggest chunks of the republican party. But they do not add up to as many votes as the combined groups the republicans have alienated with abortion, gay marriage, and immigration.

And incidentally. I was listening to a christian talk radio station yesterday. They said a lot of young christians just stayed home because they see the republicans as just too hateful to everybody. Particularly on immigration.

[Restless28]

Originally Posted by frank4570

The christians are one of the biggest chunks of the republican party. But they do not add up to as many votes as the combined groups the republicans have alienated with abortion, gay marriage, and immigration.

And incidentally. I was listening to a christian talk radio station yesterday. They said a lot of young christians just stayed home because they see the republicans as just too hateful to everybody. Particularly on immigration.

More indications that the Marxists will rule for decades.

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by TK-421

I agree with you ysr, if Republicans don't drop all the women/gay/minority hating, they'll never win an election. It's really not that hard to fathom why you lost when you piss off the exact people you need to help you win.

Mr. Democrat, thank you for spreading the patent lie that Republicans "hate" women/gay/minorities.

Marriage is marriage, if two homosexuals want to live together that is their business - but don't politicize your bedroom habits and try to force society to call it something it is not.

Making this true statement is not expressing hatred toward anyone!

I can't even dream up what gets twisted around as hatred for women and minorities? Protecting the lives of unborn children? Wanting to limit rampant ILEGAL immigration? No hatred in either of those wound positions either.

If you don't agree with those three positions, go join the democrats.

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by SunsetMan

I'm against government handouts as a rule, but I'd like to see the republicans support student aid and education more. Unlike welfare, this is an investment.

The Republicans do support this nonsense. Education has no business at the Federal level however.

[badge315]

Originally Posted by Sporaticus

I think I would consider the religious right independent voters. They apparently don't have any ties that make them come out and vote for republicans every time regardless of the candidate. The republican party seem to count them as guaranteed votes and part of their base, but experience should show the republicans that the religious right aren't necessarily votes they can take for granted.

So maybe the answer is to court the religious right, and at least pay them lip service. Much like the democrats do black folks.

So if the religious right didn't vote for Romney, who did they vote for?

If they stayed home, then they can take all their self-righteous talk about morals and principles and shove it where the sun doesn't shine, because there is nothing morally superior about shirking a civic duty like voting. Voting, even for a candidate that you know won't win, is morally superior to sitting at home in a snit with your arms folded across your chest because you didn't get your way.

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by Sporaticus

I wonder about that. I never held Romney's religion against him, his liberalism was enough, but I cannot help but wonder how it played to a group who didn't show up on election day.

I don't have the link right now because I'm on my phone, but I've previously posted a poll from summer 2011 that asked voters if your party nominated a candidate who was ______ would you vote for them. Then they listed Catholic, Jewish, Mormon, gay etc.

As I recall Mormon was about 23% "no". However in reality I imagine it was quite a bit lower than that given the "anyone but Obama" voters.

-ArtificialGrape

[Big Bird]

Originally Posted by frank4570

The christians are one of the biggest chunks of the republican party. But they do not add up to as many votes as the combined groups the republicans have alienated with abortion, gay marriage, and immigration.

And incidentally. I was listening to a christian talk radio station yesterday. They said a lot of young christians just stayed home because they see the republicans as just too hateful to everybody. Particularly on immigration.

You are wrong. I know from working in campaigns and strategy sessions that what you think is wrong. The vast majority of people in this nation agree with the Republican party on abortion and gay marriage BTW. And what's the Republican stance on immigration? Its pro LEGAL immigration. What's wrong with that?

Again, your own personal views cloud the reality of the actual numbers. Any number of very valid national surveys will refute what you believe if you just take some time to go do the research. There are not surveys that I've ever seen that back up what you say. None...