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Old 11-11-2012, 23:43   #101
jame
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Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
I'm voting Republican no matter what, can Evangelical Christians say the same thing?
Most do. I don't think most of you guys get that. The way it seems to me is that the evangelical vote is something that is not be valued by you guys. If you don't want our vote, just say so. It seems that many here already have.

And your wish may well come true.

(For the record- I did vote Republican last time. I don't need to be recognized. But you sure as hell don't want to disrespect me.)

Last edited by jame; 11-11-2012 at 23:45..
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Old 11-11-2012, 23:51   #102
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I'm not a religious person. I don't care if gay people want to get married. I have mixed views about MJ. I vote republican.
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Old 11-12-2012, 00:08   #103
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There are very many Republicans who are evangelicals. If you alienate them, it'll do more harm to the party than good.
Concern for preservation of the USA and all it stands for has to be greater than a hand full of fundamental beliefs. Politically, where would the religious right go?
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Old 11-12-2012, 00:15   #104
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When the "pro-life" party loses 50% of the Catholic vote to a guy who is decidedly non pro-life, then you have to ask if these issues still really get people worked up.

I know Catholics are demographically different from evangelicals, but the Catholic Church's position on abortion is pretty clear. Yet 50% of them voted for the pro-choice candidate.

True, Mitt did get more of the non-Hispanic (white) Catholic vote (~60%), but lost Latinos 71-29 overall.

And guess what? Latinos are a growing segment. White Catholics are a shrinking segment. Do the math for 20, 30, 40 years down the road.

Coming from their perspective, other (non-abortion related) social justice issues might be the driving factor in how they see themselves as Catholic voters.
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Old 11-12-2012, 00:21   #105
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Defend your statement.
Ok, no problem. The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. The crime category with the highest percentage... you guessed it -drugs. More people are in prison for drug related offenses at the state and federal level than for violent crime. Canada's rate is about 1/7 of ours. Has it led to social disorder and decay? I don't know, it certainly hasn't lead to lower math and science scores.
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Old 11-12-2012, 00:44   #106
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Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
I'm voting Republican no matter what, can Evangelical Christians say the same thing?
Can I say that, sure I could, but I won't. For me it is about voting for the choice that is more along the lines that are important to me.

As far as forcing my beliefs on someone, this I will not do but I will not apologize for being a conservative Christian either. I do not like the thought of the government being able to make medical decisions for anyone, just don't expect me to support the use of taxes that I pay being used for things like abortion.

And for the record, I know of a lot of Christians who cast their "irrelevant" votes. And they weren't for who we are stuck with now.
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Old 11-12-2012, 00:44   #107
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Ok, no problem. The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. The crime category with the highest percentage... you guessed it -drugs. More people are in prison for drug related offenses at the state and federal level than for violent crime. Canada's rate is about 1/7 of ours. Has it led to social disorder and decay? I don't know, it certainly hasn't lead to lower math and science scores.
So, in other words, your big issue is MJ? But you can't focus your thoughts into a cognitive and relative response to the conversation? Yeah.......just go look at your hand. It'll be ok in a few hours.

Because as it comes to the conversation re: Evangelicals and the Republican party, you got nothing.....
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Old 11-12-2012, 00:52   #108
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So, in other words, your big issue is MJ?
No it's people in prison and the huge amount of money stolen from taxpayers to fund the drug enforcement industry. There's also the patriot act, ndaa, gay rights, abortion rights, non-recreational drug laws, and intelligent design in public schools.


"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
Albert Einstein, "My First Impression of the U.S.A.", 1921
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Old 11-12-2012, 00:59   #109
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No it's people in prison and the huge amount of money stolen from taxpayers to fund the drug enforcement industry. There's also the patriot act, ndaa, gay rights, abortion rights, non-recreational drug laws, and intelligent design in public schools.


"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
Albert Einstein, "My First Impression of the U.S.A.", 1921
So those sharing these concerns cost the Republicans the election?

(I'm going to bed soon, and I doubt anyone else will baby sit you. Either make your intelligent and well thought out contribution now, or fade away.)

I swear, it's like pulling teeth from this guy. Why am I doing this?
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:00   #110
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Screw it.

Good night.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:22   #111
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So those sharing these concerns cost the Republicans the election?

(I'm going to bed soon, and I doubt anyone else will baby sit you. Either make your intelligent and well thought out contribution now, or fade away.)

I swear, it's like pulling teeth from this guy. Why am I doing this?
That's ironic. You initiated our conversation with
Quote:
The evangelicals do pose a threat to liberty.
This ought to be good.

Educate me.
That's a different question than "So those sharing these concerns cost the Republicans the election?" So to answer your new question and all the others you haven't asked yet - 42.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:30   #112
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Obama won with about 28% of the vote of those eligable to vote. When 40% of the people who could vote don't even bother this is what we get. Plus both parties are corrupt from top to bottom. Of the people who did bother to vote, repubs did horribly with blacks, latinos, asian, and youth demographics. Those are the groups who need to be educated that progressive socialism has/will ruin their chances of a good life. What can a reinvigorated republican party offer them to get their votes? Hint- it isn't any kind of religious fundamentalism.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:55   #113
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Obama won with about 28% of the vote of those eligable to vote. When 40% of the people who could vote don't even bother this is what we get. Plus both parties are corrupt from top to bottom. Of the people who did bother to vote, repubs did horribly with blacks, latinos, asian, and youth demographics. Those are the groups who need to be educated that progressive socialism has/will ruin their chances of a good life. What can a reinvigorated republican party offer them to get their votes? Hint- it isn't any kind of religious fundamentalism.
I'm against government handouts as a rule, but I'd like to see the republicans support student aid and education more. Unlike welfare, this is an investment.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:16   #114
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I maintain that until the Republicans ditch the Christian Conservative nonsense, we'll never win another election.

When I'm talking to my fellow Republicans, none of them ever mentions abortion, birth control, gay marriage, or marijuana.

The times have changed, if we don't, we'll end up like the dinosaurs. They were unwilling to change too.

What say you?
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:24   #115
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the real sad thing is that we have huge group that has very republican values...the hispanic vote.

i know alot of latinos,mostly mexican and they want less goverment and are against abortion etc etc, the whole play book of the rep party but they only vote dem because the red party seems intent on makeing life hard on them.

as for the mj subject,ive never smoked it but it seems kinda stupid to try to ban something that a person can grow in thier closet..
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:57   #116
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The religious right has money and power. If you exclude them, you weaken the party.

Somehow, the GOP has to figure out how to bring them and the libertarians in the tent.

But, frankly, I'm convinced that it won't happen and it doesn't matter anymore. We are living in strange times.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:00   #117
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Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
Why did they stay home? A no vote is the same thing as a vote for Obama.

What were they thinking?

They all went to church or stayed home and prayed for a good outcome instead of voting.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:27   #118
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I maintain that until the Republicans ditch the Christian Conservative nonsense, we'll never win another election.

When I'm talking to my fellow Republicans, none of them ever mentions abortion, birth control, gay marriage, or marijuana.

The times have changed, if we don't, we'll end up like the dinosaurs. They were unwilling to change too.

What say you?
This is an uninformed opinion. I'm not saying that to pick on you. I'm simply saying that if you look at the Conservative Christian Vote in the Republican Party it makes up well over 40% of the base. You loose that and you have a Voting Demographic that looks like this: Dems ~40% of Registered Voters. Rep ~23% of Registered Voters. Congratulations. You just made the party irrelevant.

There was nothing in the National Republican message this year that made it overtly religious. The Republicans got beat on the ground this year. They didn't turn out their base--for whatever reason. Romney got 10% fewer Republican voters than McCain! Yet somehow your formula for gaining back voters is to dismiss 40% of the party? Think about that for a moment and come back and tell me how that math works.

Reagan won BECAUSE of the Conservative Christian voters... Why did it work back then and not now? Again...think about it... Our Demographics haven't shifted THAT dramatically--some for sure.

Romney f-ed up. His strategy wasn't tight and the election required it to be tight. Obama and the Dems had their stuff wired. We didn't We got beat by the better team. Nobody likes to admit that but its what happened. We go around beating ourselves up over our message and our marketing and that's NOT what killed us. Our execution sucked. Pure and simple.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:21   #119
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The christians are one of the biggest chunks of the republican party. But they do not add up to as many votes as the combined groups the republicans have alienated with abortion, gay marriage, and immigration.

And incidentally. I was listening to a christian talk radio station yesterday. They said a lot of young christians just stayed home because they see the republicans as just too hateful to everybody. Particularly on immigration.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:26   #120
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The christians are one of the biggest chunks of the republican party. But they do not add up to as many votes as the combined groups the republicans have alienated with abortion, gay marriage, and immigration.

And incidentally. I was listening to a christian talk radio station yesterday. They said a lot of young christians just stayed home because they see the republicans as just too hateful to everybody. Particularly on immigration.
More indications that the Marxists will rule for decades.
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