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Old 11-12-2012, 11:21   #1
ricky
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What does the IDF do differently?

I did some research and got nowhere In a hurry on this question, what do the Israelis do differently with their m4 and m16 then we do? Do they maintain their's differently,what lube do they use, what ammo and bullet weight do they use?

Is thee something we can learn from them like cleaning,maintaining,modifying them?

I think this would be good reading personally.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:25   #2
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The biggest question is why does what the IDF does matter? I really don't get it. What is the huge fascination with a small country's defense forces? We designed the weapon. We've fielded some variant of it in several different types of environments for more than 40 years. We've been in, more or less, a constant state of conflict (openly or not) somewhere on the globe since the rifle's inception. Why would Israel have more insight and knowledge about the rifle than we do?
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:25   #3
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What makes you think they do anything differently?
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:01   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayaX View Post
The biggest question is why does what the IDF does matter? I really don't get it. What is the huge fascination with a small country's defense forces? We designed the weapon. We've fielded some variant of it in several different types of environments for more than 40 years. We've been in, more or less, a constant state of conflict (openly or not) somewhere on the globe since the rifle's inception. Why would Israel have more insight and knowledge about the rifle than we do?
What he said!
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:13   #5
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This reminds me an Israeli employee I had that would look at you in the eyes and tell you that they take two of our F16's and make one superior F16 out them.....:rolleyes:

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Old 11-12-2012, 12:34   #6
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Perhaps we do not know it all on all subjects, perhaps they have more experience in dusty conditions, perhaps they figured something out we haven't.

Maybe attaining more knowledge is good or perhaps some people have their heads in the sand and enjoy it immensely?
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:37   #7
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I'm still not sure what makes the OP think that the IDF does something differently or better than what the US does.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:41   #8
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How about a true answer to the question and no further unrelated comments?
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:55   #9
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80 million enemies....

Quote:
Originally Posted by WayaX View Post
The biggest question is why does what the IDF does matter? I really don't get it. What is the huge fascination with a small country's defense forces? We designed the weapon. We've fielded some variant of it in several different types of environments for more than 40 years. We've been in, more or less, a constant state of conflict (openly or not) somewhere on the globe since the rifle's inception. Why would Israel have more insight and knowledge about the rifle than we do?
Maybe the 80-100 Million enemies that vow to wipe them off the earth but are afraid to do anything about it. Israel's very existence in that part of the world lets me know they are doing something a lot different. All the big dogs barking in that part of the world but no one moves on the little dog, and its no longer about the US backing them... those days are over if you ask me. The IDF is doing something different alright.
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Old 11-12-2012, 13:05   #10
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Originally Posted by ricky View Post
I did some research and got nowhere In a hurry on this question, what do the Israelis do differently with their m4 and m16 then we do? Do they maintain their's differently,what lube do they use, what ammo and bullet weight do they use?

Is thee something we can learn from them like cleaning,maintaining,modifying them?

I think this would be good reading personally.
I trained a little bit with them in whe mid 90's. They don't do anything different with their M16's.

They were using 62gr 5.56mm and I saw some 55gr. just like I have seen with our forces.

I never bothered to ask what kind of lube they used because it really does not matter. You could use CLP to Mobile 1 and get the same results with the exception of extreme environments such as extreme cold weather.

As far as experience in dusty environments are concerned, think about it for a min. We have been fighting in what some might consider a dusty environment nonstop since at least 2001. That is 12 years of experience. I think we pretty much got that one under control. On top of the last 12 years we have also had guys in the Sinai for a long time as well as NTC. It has always been a myth that we would have more problems in a desert environment than anybody else. We proved that in the first gulf war as well as the second iteration in Iraq and A-stan.

They do have some tactics that are different but so does every other Army in the world and everyone can learn something on a tactical level from someone else.
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Old 11-12-2012, 13:21   #11
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How about a true answer to the question and no further unrelated comments?
I can think of a few things they do differently:

1) Go around in Status: Amber/ Condition 3 so they don't shoot themselves or each other.

2) Open beer bottles with their Galil bipods while having campfire guitar singalong time. Lots of man to man touching too.

3) Randomly and thoughtlessly cut back CAR barrels to ~10.3" and then wonder why they don't run.

4) Get free equipment, get free money. Sell free equipment to Chinese, knock off free equipment for local production, spy on our defense industry, steal land.

5) Hang junk Chinese accessories off of their free equipment. Sell junk Chinese accessories to the American consumer.

6) Use free equipment to oppress/murder the former/ rightful occupants of their stolen land.

7) Children as human shields.

8) Traffic (almost all) drugs from South America into Europe.

9) Field a huge formation of barely-trained conscripts, get their asses handed to them by Hezbollah in '06.

Oh... I just realized you were asking about AR type rifles...

#3 then.

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Old 11-12-2012, 13:26   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt. Rambo View Post
Maybe the 80-100 Million enemies that vow to wipe them off the earth but are afraid to do anything about it. Israel's very existence in that part of the world lets me know they are doing something a lot different. All the big dogs barking in that part of the world but no one moves on the little dog, and its no longer about the US backing them... those days are over if you ask me. The IDF is doing something different alright.
If you think the U.S. no longer backs Israel then you're mistaken. The moment the U.S. comes out and says "We will no longer back Israel militarily, either overtly or covertly", Israel will be attacked.
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Old 11-12-2012, 14:21   #13
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The biggest thing that the Israelis do differently is conscript forces from a homogeneous population of a very small nation that is out numbered and surrounded by its enemies who have vowed to destroy them. When Israeli forces are trained, it is very much in the forefront of their minds that tomorrow may be another battle upon which depends the very survival of their people. Americans have never been in such a battle. The Israelis are in one every ten years or so.
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Old 11-12-2012, 14:27   #14
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
I can think of a few things they do differently:

1) Go around in Status: Amber/ Condition 3 so they don't shoot themselves or each other.

2) Open beer bottles with their Galil bipods while having campfire guitar singalong time. Lots of man to man touching too.

3) Randomly and thoughtlessly cut back CAR barrels to ~10.3" and then wonder why they don't run.

4) Get free equipment, get free money. Sell free equipment to Chinese, knock off free equipment for local production, spy on our defense industry, steal land.

5) Hang junk Chinese accessories off of their free equipment. Sell junk Chinese accessories to the American consumer.

6) Use free equipment to oppress/murder the former/ rightful occupants of their stolen land.

7) Children as human shields.

8) Traffic (almost all) drugs from South America into Europe.

9) Field a huge formation of barely-trained conscripts, get their asses handed to them by Hezbollah in '06.

Oh... I just realized you were asking about AR type rifles...

#3 then.

Save the anti-Semitism for the PI issues forum. Freaking morons.
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Old 11-12-2012, 14:29   #15
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Save the anti-Semitism for the PI issues forum. Freaking morons.
How is what he said in any way degrading to Jewish people? The state of Israel is not perfect, that in no way reflects on all people of Jewish ancestry. If someone said negative things about the state of Rome, would you consider that to be anti-Catholic?
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Old 11-12-2012, 14:46   #16
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How is what he said in any way degrading to Jewish people? The state of Israel is not perfect, that in no way reflects on all people of Jewish ancestry. If someone said negative things about the state of Rome, would you consider that to be anti-Catholic?
Much of what was said was outright lies. For example, Israel did not steal land from anybody. The Israelis were given the land by the Brits, who got it from the Ottoman empire, who stole it from the Palistinians, who got it from somebody who stole it from someone else, who got it from the Romans, who stole it from the Jews, who stole it from some other party.
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Old 11-12-2012, 14:49   #17
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Originally Posted by ricky View Post
I did some research and got nowhere In a hurry on this question, what do the Israelis do differently with their m4 and m16 then we do? Do they maintain their's differently,what lube do they use, what ammo and bullet weight do they use?

Is thee something we can learn from them like cleaning,maintaining,modifying them?

I think this would be good reading personally.
The area where we can learn much from the Israeli's is not in weapons, it is in body language and human intelligence.
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Old 11-12-2012, 14:50   #18
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How about a true answer to the question and no further unrelated comments?
I agree with you OP

BUT some folks just Like to be difficult.

Or are just anti semites.
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Old 11-12-2012, 14:57   #19
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They got more hot chicks carrying AND they don't use $300 Gucci gears for combat.
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Old 11-12-2012, 14:59   #20
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Much of what was said was outright lies. For example, Israel did not steal land from anybody. The Israelis were given the land by the Brits, who got it from the Ottoman empire, who stole it from the Palistinians, who got it from somebody who stole it from someone else, who got it from the Romans, who stole it from the Jews, who stole it from some other party.
While that might be true, my point is the state of Israel does not constitute the Jewish population as a whole. Therefore, while it may be anti-Israel or anti-Israeli, it is not anti-Semitic. Again, would insulting China's government be a racial assault on all Chinese people? Israel (in it's current form) is a modern state, not a race or religion.
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