GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-13-2012, 23:23   #51
Gunnut 45/454
Senior Member
 
Gunnut 45/454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 14,038
LL6
Hell my trainer at Basic didn't have a lick of finish on it '80! The only thing black was the buttstock. And that was cause they had just replaced it cause it was cracked!
__________________
Gunnut45/454-One shot one kill!

Last edited by Gunnut 45/454; 11-13-2012 at 23:24..
Gunnut 45/454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 04:12   #52
LL6
Senior Member
 
LL6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Off I-40, NC
Posts: 1,540
Those were some worn out rifles.

A-1-3 SSGs Rivera and Sampson were my drills.
__________________
Mike
G26
LL6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 07:34   #53
fuzzy03cls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,741
I'll take my personal experience over the internet any day.
DPMS did everything my 6920 did
Bushmaster did almost everything my 6920 did(it choked on wolf ammo)
Spikes upper on the DPMS lower, did everything the 6920 did
BCM upper(3 of them) on a LMT lower did everything the 6920 did
CMMG upper on the bushmaster lower did everything the 6920 did
And these were not lightly used 100rd/year rifles. I have sold most of my stuff cause I can't afford it any longer, but the reality is for most people not LE or in the sandbox any modern off the shelf AR(or combination of uppers/lowers) will do the job.

Last edited by fuzzy03cls; 11-14-2012 at 07:37..
fuzzy03cls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 08:33   #54
mjkeat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy03cls View Post
I'll take my personal experience over the internet any day.
DPMS did everything my 6920 did
Bushmaster did almost everything my 6920 did(it choked on wolf ammo)
Spikes upper on the DPMS lower, did everything the 6920 did
BCM upper(3 of them) on a LMT lower did everything the 6920 did
CMMG upper on the bushmaster lower did everything the 6920 did
And these were not lightly used 100rd/year rifles. I have sold most of my stuff cause I can't afford it any longer, but the reality is for most people not LE or in the sandbox any modern off the shelf AR(or combination of uppers/lowers) will do the job.
How so? Details please. We can throw out "just as good as" all day but it means nothing w/o details.

Just because something will "do the job" doesn't mean it is as good as everything else. I had a guy that would get the job done but he took coaching and I wasn't always certain he'd actually get it done correctly or in a timely manner. I had guys who could get the job done as well but didn't require coaching. In fact I would tell them once and know the job was getting done in stellar fashion each and every time. Theres different levels of "do the job."
mjkeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 08:47   #55
P99er
AKA PPQ'er
 
P99er's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: My own little world
Posts: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy03cls View Post
I'll take my personal experience over the internet any day.
DPMS did everything my 6920 did
Bushmaster did almost everything my 6920 did(it choked on wolf ammo)
Spikes upper on the DPMS lower, did everything the 6920 did
BCM upper(3 of them) on a LMT lower did everything the 6920 did
CMMG upper on the bushmaster lower did everything the 6920 did
And these were not lightly used 100rd/year rifles. I have sold most of my stuff cause I can't afford it any longer, but the reality is for most people not LE or in the sandbox any modern off the shelf AR(or combination of uppers/lowers) will do the job.
I've heard the same from people I know.

Oddly enough, from the shooter perspective, if there aren't any physical differences like hand guards or length, you cannot really tell whether you are shooting Bushmaster, RR, Colt, or BCM.
__________________
.

"I cannot sit and watch a lady diminish her qualities to the lowest common denominator. I just can't do that" - Jerry Lewis on female comics
P99er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 10:54   #56
mjkeat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by P99er View Post
I've heard the same from people I know.

Oddly enough, from the shooter perspective, if there aren't any physical differences like hand guards or length, you cannot really tell whether you are shooting Bushmaster, RR, Colt, or BCM.
What experiences bring you to that conclusion?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
mjkeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 11:02   #57
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 14,392
Where can I buy a Colt for $800?
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 11:09   #58
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 14,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
How many times have threads been created to express dissatisfaction w/ PSA in all forms from shipping times, wrong parts shipped, messed up feed ramps, canted FSPs, etc. Now ask yourself the same question about BCM, DD, and Colt.
I've seen plenty of threads about shipping problems with PSA. I've seen very few about actual quality problems with their products. Doesn't mean there aren't any, but there are for ALL manufacturers if you really wanna look.
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 11:11   #59
mixflip
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,673
This **** again?

I guess when you've been in the black rifle game for 50 years this is bound to happen. No, Colt isnt the best. They are just the most combat proven and that in itself is worth the price to some people.
mixflip is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 11:23   #60
fallenangelhim
come get some
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 342
I truly believe your use will dictate your need. "The best" is different for different people. Some people, like myself, like the idea of owning a military replica. But some other people just want to be able to plink and if their rifle shoots as many bullets down range as my Colt without failure then it is the best for them. I know I will never need a go to war gun because I personally will not go to war (political theories and uprisings aside).

Is Colt better than x, y, and z? Depends on who you ask and who is paying. My guns are the best for me because I was able to afford them and can play with them. At one point a Glock pistol was the best for me because it was all I knew and could afford. Now I think it's a Sig or any American 1911. Tomorrow it might be an HK or an FN. But it's the best to me because it fits my needs and financial requirements.

Who cares what other people are buying. Leave them alone.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
The Kalashnikov Klub Member #1999
fallenangelhim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 12:12   #61
LA_357SIG
Milspectacular
 
LA_357SIG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Not Los Angeles.
Posts: 1,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallenangelhim View Post
Who cares what other people are buying. Leave them alone.
There are 2 sides to this debate:

People who believe the Colt M4 TDP is the minimum standard for AR15's may be used in a life or death situation, and people that think AR15's built below that standard are just as good as those built to the minimum standard.

In reality, on a civilian owned semi auto AR, the military standard isn't necessary. I believe a properly assembled AR15 with a CMV (not 4140 as I stated in this thread) barrel, quality BCG, 7075T receiver extension and some degree of competent maintenance will be "just as good" as any internet commando approved brand AR15.
__________________
"If I was you I would keep it just like it is... and shoot the **** out of it until something breaks. Then replace whatever it is and keep shooting."

Last edited by LA_357SIG; 11-14-2012 at 12:15..
LA_357SIG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 12:15   #62
TedG
Infidel USA
 
TedG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: South Florida & Cleveland, Oh
Posts: 2,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy03cls View Post
I'll take my personal experience over the internet any day.
DPMS did everything my 6920 did
Bushmaster did almost everything my 6920 did(it choked on wolf ammo)
Spikes upper on the DPMS lower, did everything the 6920 did
BCM upper(3 of them) on a LMT lower did everything the 6920 did
CMMG upper on the bushmaster lower did everything the 6920 did
And these were not lightly used 100rd/year rifles. I have sold most of my stuff cause I can't afford it any longer, but the reality is for most people not LE or in the sandbox any modern off the shelf AR(or combination of uppers/lowers) will do the job.

Wow. Instead of having all those rifles, you could have just kept the 6920 since you KNOW it did everything as the standard to be measured against..
__________________
God Bless Our Troops

Become an Organ Donor today: http://donatelife.net/register-now/ Save as many as 50 lives. Thanks.

Last edited by TedG; 11-14-2012 at 12:17..
TedG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 13:02   #63
fuzzy03cls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,741
I could but also wanted different configurations like a rifle length , mid length, 14.5.

I never said anything was any better then anything else. I'm simply pointing out that X brand doesn't always means it's better then X brand. And that has been MY experience.
Quote:
How so? Details please. We can throw out "just as good as" all day but it means nothing w/o details.

Just because something will "do the job" doesn't mean it is as good as everything else.
Am I in a war zone where I may need to fire FA or burst?
Am I a Swat officer that may need to rescue hostages?
Am I in any way in any job that may need the MP testing? The CL barrel? The FA BCG?
No. I'm a normal person like most of the forum members are.
Yes it will do the job for my needs. And I think my own testing of parts & setup proves that to me.
It's always the same argument from pro tier 1 guys... gets old.

Last edited by fuzzy03cls; 11-14-2012 at 13:03..
fuzzy03cls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 18:29   #64
mjkeat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy03cls View Post
I could but also wanted different configurations like a rifle length , mid length, 14.5.
In time you'll look at those different "configurations" sitting in the safe and realize you've wasted good ammo money on redundancy and that the 16" you use most often does everything all the other rifles do. Been there myself. Collecting gets old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy03cls View Post
I never said anything was any better then anything else. I'm simply pointing out that X brand doesn't always means it's better then X brand. And that has been MY experience.
Am I in a war zone where I may need to fire FA or burst?
Am I a Swat officer that may need to rescue hostages?
Am I in any way in any job that may need the MP testing? The CL barrel? The FA BCG?
No. I'm a normal person like most of the forum members are.
Yes it will do the job for my needs. And I think my own testing of parts & setup proves that to me.
It's always the same argument from pro tier 1 guys... gets old.
So lets settle for lower quality. If it works for you so be it.

When I asked for details I ment round count, shooting habits, was your DPMS ran through classes, etc. What testing? I wasn't asking for the lame "not going to war" "tier 1 guys" defense.

Last edited by mjkeat; 11-14-2012 at 18:30..
mjkeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 21:44   #65
txgunguy
Senior Member
 
txgunguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 2,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
I've seen plenty of threads about shipping problems with PSA. I've seen very few about actual quality problems with their products. Doesn't mean there aren't any, but there are for ALL manufacturers if you really wanna look.
The quality is there, even though many people refuse to believe it. Their barrels are made by FN. I suspect their other parts may very well be too. That's just my suspicion. Why would they get barrels from FN and nothing else?

I bought a PSA bcg when they were $99. It's sitting in my BCM upper ::GASP::! That bolt has ran and ran.
__________________
The Second Amendment is the reset button of the United States. -Doug McKay
txgunguy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 08:29   #66
fuzzy03cls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,741
Quote:
In time you'll look at those different "configurations" sitting in the safe and realize you've wasted good ammo money on redundancy and that the 16" you use most often does everything all the other rifles do. Been there myself. Collecting gets old
Which is why I sold off most of it.
And read my posts I say what the rifles went through. Yes to classes, Yes to steel case ammo, Yes to no cleaning, Yes to thousands of rounds.
fuzzy03cls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 22:44   #67
mjkeat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy03cls View Post
Which is why I sold off most of it.
And read my posts I say what the rifles went through. Yes to classes, Yes to steel case ammo, Yes to no cleaning, Yes to thousands of rounds.
I went back through the thread and couldn't find any of that.

It doesn't matter anyway as most will never push their ARs far enough to see the difference. They'll continue to pay equal amounts of money for sub-par quality as it's good enough for their needs. Then defend their purchase w/ "not going to war" when people ask why they'd spen d the same amount of money on lower quality.
mjkeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 08:39   #68
joecoastie
Senior Member
 
joecoastie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SC
Posts: 1,272
First of all I am not an "AR expert" in any way shape or form. My professional experience consists of taking a Colt M16A2 to the range every 6 months for qualifications, our M16s basically never leave the armory other than for qualifications.

Anyways, it seems to me a lot of this brand stuff could be settled by people being honest with themselves as to what type of rifle will meet their needs. I feel like Surf's sticky lays all this out rather well. In my opinion not everyone needs a high end AR. Now if you want the best money can buy just because that's what you want, then go for it. After assessing my needs I realized a S&W Sport was ideal for me and was significantly cheaper than a Colt.

So not everyone needs a Colt, however a lot of people settle for a different brand when for maybe $100 more they could have had a Colt and if nothing else had better resale value. A DPMS/Bushmaster/RRA/PSA/Sport/Etc for $7-800 as opposed to a Colt for $1000-1100? Yeah I might go for one of those other brands, but anymore those other brands are (except the Sport) in the $900-1000 so why not get the Colt?
__________________
--------------------------------
USCG, Saving Lives On A Budget.
joecoastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:31   #69
chief63
Senior Member
 
chief63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 251
I didn't get the Colt because its not what I wanted. I served 30 years and pounded plenty of sand. If the "SHTF" in suburbia USA I'm probably good to go with an $800 M&PT. If not there will be plenty of internet commando Colts laying around.

The only things I buy MILSPEC are toilet seats and hammers. And toilet paper.
chief63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:41   #70
glock031
Senior Member
 
glock031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 620
Can someone explain why milspec is refered to as the minimum standard? I've been seeing this statement being posted a lot.

I would think that milspec is the standard that evolved that best suits our millitary for its needs and uses at this point in time. Better specs? Maybe for recreational or other uses but as of now for our millitary needs and uses it is milspec as the standard.

Minimum standard for who, us or the millitary?
__________________
22lr -9x19 -357sig -40sw -22wmr -5.56/223 -12ga
glock031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:50   #71
bmoore
Senior Member
 
bmoore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Under a regime.
Posts: 4,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by chief63 View Post
I didn't get the Colt because its not what I wanted. I served 30 years and pounded plenty of sand. If the "SHTF" in suburbia USA I'm probably good to go with an $800 M&PT. If not there will be plenty of internet commando Colts laying around.

The only things I buy MILSPEC are toilet seats and hammers. And toilet paper.
Smith makes a fine rifle.
__________________
RIP Okie
bmoore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:55   #72
glock031
Senior Member
 
glock031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 620
If we/ve taken milspec and improved on it, where can i find these new certs and all the testing that shows the results to be somewhat better than milspec.
__________________
22lr -9x19 -357sig -40sw -22wmr -5.56/223 -12ga
glock031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 11:24   #73
chief63
Senior Member
 
chief63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by glock031 View Post
Can someone explain why milspec is refered to as the minimum standard? I've been seeing this statement being posted a lot.

I would think that milspec is the standard that evolved that best suits our millitary for its needs and uses at this point in time. Better specs? Maybe for recreational or other uses but as of now for our millitary needs and uses it is milspec as the standard.

Minimum standard for who, us or the millitary?
MILSPEC does not guarantee the best product. It guarantees a good logistics tail and higher prices for dated technology.
chief63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 11:38   #74
chief63
Senior Member
 
chief63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by glock031 View Post
If we/ve taken milspec and improved on it, where can i find these new certs and all the testing that shows the results to be somewhat better than milspec.
Excellent question. 1970s? MILSPEC is needed for logistics and reliability. But its also a limiting factor. MILSPEC does not keep up with technology.
chief63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 11:41   #75
glock031
Senior Member
 
glock031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by chief63 View Post
Excellent question. 1970s? MILSPEC is needed for logistics and reliability. But its also a limiting factor. MILSPEC does not keep up with technology.
I thought it evolved. It does not?
__________________
22lr -9x19 -357sig -40sw -22wmr -5.56/223 -12ga
glock031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:36.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,558
476 Members
1,082 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42