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Old 11-14-2012, 13:12   #61
LA_357SIG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallenangelhim View Post
Who cares what other people are buying. Leave them alone.
There are 2 sides to this debate:

People who believe the Colt M4 TDP is the minimum standard for AR15's may be used in a life or death situation, and people that think AR15's built below that standard are just as good as those built to the minimum standard.

In reality, on a civilian owned semi auto AR, the military standard isn't necessary. I believe a properly assembled AR15 with a CMV (not 4140 as I stated in this thread) barrel, quality BCG, 7075T receiver extension and some degree of competent maintenance will be "just as good" as any internet commando approved brand AR15.
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Last edited by LA_357SIG; 11-14-2012 at 13:15..
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:15   #62
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Originally Posted by fuzzy03cls View Post
I'll take my personal experience over the internet any day.
DPMS did everything my 6920 did
Bushmaster did almost everything my 6920 did(it choked on wolf ammo)
Spikes upper on the DPMS lower, did everything the 6920 did
BCM upper(3 of them) on a LMT lower did everything the 6920 did
CMMG upper on the bushmaster lower did everything the 6920 did
And these were not lightly used 100rd/year rifles. I have sold most of my stuff cause I can't afford it any longer, but the reality is for most people not LE or in the sandbox any modern off the shelf AR(or combination of uppers/lowers) will do the job.

Wow. Instead of having all those rifles, you could have just kept the 6920 since you KNOW it did everything as the standard to be measured against..
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Last edited by TedG; 11-14-2012 at 13:17..
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Old 11-14-2012, 14:02   #63
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I could but also wanted different configurations like a rifle length , mid length, 14.5.

I never said anything was any better then anything else. I'm simply pointing out that X brand doesn't always means it's better then X brand. And that has been MY experience.
Quote:
How so? Details please. We can throw out "just as good as" all day but it means nothing w/o details.

Just because something will "do the job" doesn't mean it is as good as everything else.
Am I in a war zone where I may need to fire FA or burst?
Am I a Swat officer that may need to rescue hostages?
Am I in any way in any job that may need the MP testing? The CL barrel? The FA BCG?
No. I'm a normal person like most of the forum members are.
Yes it will do the job for my needs. And I think my own testing of parts & setup proves that to me.
It's always the same argument from pro tier 1 guys... gets old.

Last edited by fuzzy03cls; 11-14-2012 at 14:03..
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Old 11-14-2012, 19:29   #64
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Originally Posted by fuzzy03cls View Post
I could but also wanted different configurations like a rifle length , mid length, 14.5.
In time you'll look at those different "configurations" sitting in the safe and realize you've wasted good ammo money on redundancy and that the 16" you use most often does everything all the other rifles do. Been there myself. Collecting gets old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy03cls View Post
I never said anything was any better then anything else. I'm simply pointing out that X brand doesn't always means it's better then X brand. And that has been MY experience.
Am I in a war zone where I may need to fire FA or burst?
Am I a Swat officer that may need to rescue hostages?
Am I in any way in any job that may need the MP testing? The CL barrel? The FA BCG?
No. I'm a normal person like most of the forum members are.
Yes it will do the job for my needs. And I think my own testing of parts & setup proves that to me.
It's always the same argument from pro tier 1 guys... gets old.
So lets settle for lower quality. If it works for you so be it.

When I asked for details I ment round count, shooting habits, was your DPMS ran through classes, etc. What testing? I wasn't asking for the lame "not going to war" "tier 1 guys" defense.

Last edited by mjkeat; 11-14-2012 at 19:30..
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Old 11-14-2012, 22:44   #65
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I've seen plenty of threads about shipping problems with PSA. I've seen very few about actual quality problems with their products. Doesn't mean there aren't any, but there are for ALL manufacturers if you really wanna look.
The quality is there, even though many people refuse to believe it. Their barrels are made by FN. I suspect their other parts may very well be too. That's just my suspicion. Why would they get barrels from FN and nothing else?

I bought a PSA bcg when they were $99. It's sitting in my BCM upper ::GASP::! That bolt has ran and ran.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:29   #66
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In time you'll look at those different "configurations" sitting in the safe and realize you've wasted good ammo money on redundancy and that the 16" you use most often does everything all the other rifles do. Been there myself. Collecting gets old
Which is why I sold off most of it.
And read my posts I say what the rifles went through. Yes to classes, Yes to steel case ammo, Yes to no cleaning, Yes to thousands of rounds.
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Old 11-15-2012, 23:44   #67
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Which is why I sold off most of it.
And read my posts I say what the rifles went through. Yes to classes, Yes to steel case ammo, Yes to no cleaning, Yes to thousands of rounds.
I went back through the thread and couldn't find any of that.

It doesn't matter anyway as most will never push their ARs far enough to see the difference. They'll continue to pay equal amounts of money for sub-par quality as it's good enough for their needs. Then defend their purchase w/ "not going to war" when people ask why they'd spen d the same amount of money on lower quality.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:39   #68
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First of all I am not an "AR expert" in any way shape or form. My professional experience consists of taking a Colt M16A2 to the range every 6 months for qualifications, our M16s basically never leave the armory other than for qualifications.

Anyways, it seems to me a lot of this brand stuff could be settled by people being honest with themselves as to what type of rifle will meet their needs. I feel like Surf's sticky lays all this out rather well. In my opinion not everyone needs a high end AR. Now if you want the best money can buy just because that's what you want, then go for it. After assessing my needs I realized a S&W Sport was ideal for me and was significantly cheaper than a Colt.

So not everyone needs a Colt, however a lot of people settle for a different brand when for maybe $100 more they could have had a Colt and if nothing else had better resale value. A DPMS/Bushmaster/RRA/PSA/Sport/Etc for $7-800 as opposed to a Colt for $1000-1100? Yeah I might go for one of those other brands, but anymore those other brands are (except the Sport) in the $900-1000 so why not get the Colt?
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:31   #69
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I didn't get the Colt because its not what I wanted. I served 30 years and pounded plenty of sand. If the "SHTF" in suburbia USA I'm probably good to go with an $800 M&PT. If not there will be plenty of internet commando Colts laying around.

The only things I buy MILSPEC are toilet seats and hammers. And toilet paper.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:41   #70
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Can someone explain why milspec is refered to as the minimum standard? I've been seeing this statement being posted a lot.

I would think that milspec is the standard that evolved that best suits our millitary for its needs and uses at this point in time. Better specs? Maybe for recreational or other uses but as of now for our millitary needs and uses it is milspec as the standard.

Minimum standard for who, us or the millitary?
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:50   #71
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I didn't get the Colt because its not what I wanted. I served 30 years and pounded plenty of sand. If the "SHTF" in suburbia USA I'm probably good to go with an $800 M&PT. If not there will be plenty of internet commando Colts laying around.

The only things I buy MILSPEC are toilet seats and hammers. And toilet paper.
Smith makes a fine rifle.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:55   #72
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If we/ve taken milspec and improved on it, where can i find these new certs and all the testing that shows the results to be somewhat better than milspec.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:24   #73
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Can someone explain why milspec is refered to as the minimum standard? I've been seeing this statement being posted a lot.

I would think that milspec is the standard that evolved that best suits our millitary for its needs and uses at this point in time. Better specs? Maybe for recreational or other uses but as of now for our millitary needs and uses it is milspec as the standard.

Minimum standard for who, us or the millitary?
MILSPEC does not guarantee the best product. It guarantees a good logistics tail and higher prices for dated technology.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:38   #74
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If we/ve taken milspec and improved on it, where can i find these new certs and all the testing that shows the results to be somewhat better than milspec.
Excellent question. 1970s? MILSPEC is needed for logistics and reliability. But its also a limiting factor. MILSPEC does not keep up with technology.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:41   #75
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Excellent question. 1970s? MILSPEC is needed for logistics and reliability. But its also a limiting factor. MILSPEC does not keep up with technology.
I thought it evolved. It does not?
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:48   #76
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I thought it evolved. It does not?
I'm sure. No idea when the last time was. Its governed by bean counters at the GAO.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:54   #77
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I was the author of one of those threads.(WW or Colt).I'm knowledgeable about pistols and bolt action guns because that's what I practice with and utilize.Even though I had two AK varients and two ARs(DoubleStar and DPMS) before I posed the question,I never really had that much interest in them.They were just a base I covered in my gun ownership.Once I realized the possibility of not being able to buy another in the future,I decided to get a higher quality AR.
Genuinely not knowing what was what is why I asked.I've since purchased a ColtLE6920 and put 800 rounds through the iron sights.Now I'm pondering a new thread "Aimpoint vs. Vortex".
Sorry to have pissed in your Cheerios.
Have you ever had an issue with you Doublestar?
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Old 11-16-2012, 13:45   #78
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I'm sure. No idea when the last time was. Its governed by bean counters at the GAO.
The way i percieve it, MILSPEC evolves but slowly due to restraints such as precedures and validation processes. The commercial market does some R&D and runs with it. To compare specs is apples to oranges. Better? Then the question becomes better for who or for what purpose? Commercial tweaks specs for specifics to the segments.

Those restaints put in place by the millitary are be sure measures. So to some extent MILSPEC is not up to current technology. But is proven to create a very reliable black rifle.
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Last edited by glock031; 11-16-2012 at 14:13..
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Old 11-16-2012, 16:06   #79
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Tis true. MILSPEC absolutely serves and important purpose. I would say commonality with parts and dimensions are the most important. Good for military logistics. But reliability specs are rather low. With that said, the commonality piece does benefit guys who tinker with their somewhat MILSPEC civilian versions.
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Old 11-16-2012, 17:42   #80
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Colt 6920
Colt SP1
Bushy A1 Carbine
Bushy A2 Carbine

Don't see a dime's worth of difference between them
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