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Old 08-19-2012, 20:51   #1
Stock.glock
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Cops asking for concealed carry permit when open carrying

I've been pulled over twice this summer for various reason while riding my motorcycle, "supposedly" for non gun related reasons. I was open carrying my glock in a blackhawk holster. The gun was in plain sight from at least 270 degree around me. Both cops asked for my concealed carry permit. I told both the same thing: "I have have it, but I don't need a CCP to open carry in WV". One listened to me, the other insisted I get it out immediately. What should I do in this situation? I don't want to cause problems, but on the other hand I see no reason to show my CONCEALED carry permit when I am OPEN carrying. It's like them asking for your motorcycle license when you are driving a car. My carry lisence has nothing to do with what I am doing. I feel like I should educate them if nothing else but to help people that open carry without a CCP. I feel confident that the officer that insisted I show him mine would have pulled his gun on me if I resisted any more. Any advice would be appreciated for any future altercations.
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Old 08-19-2012, 21:44   #2
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Arguments roadside are notoriously unproductive. A polite letter to the station the next day, followed up on if needed, will do more for you.
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Old 08-19-2012, 22:32   #3
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Not being familiar with WV gun laws, I suppose it is not like PA's open carry law where a license is not needed, but in or on a vehicle a license would be required.
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Old 08-20-2012, 00:02   #4
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I agree with Sam Spade. Comply at roadside and follow-up with a letter to his department.
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Old 08-20-2012, 01:13   #5
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Agree with others, simply showing the license, even if legally you don't have to, is not a burden and could avoid... unpleasantries.
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Old 08-20-2012, 04:41   #6
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Agree with others, simply showing the license, even if legally you don't have to, is not a burden and could avoid... unpleasantries.
I'm all about avoiding unpleasantries, but what about the guy who open carries with no permit? Should he be pulled from the bike and cuffed because the cop did not know the law? (not saying for sure this would have happened to me but wouldn't have surprise me.) In my opinion the cops should know the laws and requirements. It's part of their job. And they should also stick to the law and not try to abuse their powers.

And yes I am familiar with PA's open carry law in a vehicle as I ride up there a lot since I live in the Morgantown area. I've never been hassled up there but if I did I'd be glad to show my CCP as that is part of the law. But it's not in WV.

And by the way, I only open carry when I ride my motorcycle, otherwise it's concealed. There is just no comfortable and safe way to conceal my glock when on my bike otherwise I would.
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:33   #7
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Originally Posted by Stock.glock View Post
I'm all about avoiding unpleasantries, but what about the guy who open carries with no permit? Should he be pulled from the bike and cuffed because the cop did not know the law? (not saying for sure this would have happened to me but wouldn't have surprise me.) In my opinion the cops should know the laws and requirements. It's part of their job. And they should also stick to the law and not try to abuse their powers.

And yes I am familiar with PA's open carry law in a vehicle as I ride up there a lot since I live in the Morgantown area. I've never been hassled up there but if I did I'd be glad to show my CCP as that is part of the law. But it's not in WV.

And by the way, I only open carry when I ride my motorcycle, otherwise it's concealed. There is just no comfortable and safe way to conceal my glock when on my bike otherwise I would.
That is why it us imptortant for you to properly address the issue after the fact, to prevent problems for the next guy.

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Old 08-20-2012, 05:53   #8
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Originally Posted by Stock.glock View Post
I've been pulled over twice this summer for various reason while riding my motorcycle, "supposedly" for non gun related reasons. I was open carrying my glock in a blackhawk holster. The gun was in plain sight from at least 270 degree around me. Both cops asked for my concealed carry permit. I told both the same thing: "I have have it, but I don't need a CCP to open carry in WV".
Maybe not, but opencarry.org says that OC is illegal under local ordinances in some places, like Charleston, because the state preemption law didn't preempt existing laws. Are you riding around one of those places?
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:54   #9
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Arguments roadside are notoriously unproductive. A polite letter to the station the next day, followed up on if needed, will do more for you.
^^^ This. Just don’t let it go. Send a letter with your concerns supported by the Statutes (put the statute in a different page so it doesn’t detract from your main message. Follow up with a call and get feedback on your concerns. Be polite and proper. If applicable commend the office for an otherwise professional stop. If you don’t know the name and badge number of the officer, include the date, time and location of the stop.

Be helpful and informative on your follow up call. Help others help you and influence change in a positive manner, it has a greater tendency to make our voice and concerns heard.

Best wishes in your endeavor.

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Old 08-20-2012, 05:57   #10
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Originally Posted by Stock.glock View Post
I'm all about avoiding unpleasantries, but what about the guy who open carries with no permit? Should he be pulled from the bike and cuffed because the cop did not know the law? (not saying for sure this would have happened to me but wouldn't have surprise me.) In my opinion the cops should know the laws and requirements. It's part of their job. And they should also stick to the law and not try to abuse their powers.
You didn't describe any abuse in your first post - if the police pull you over for traffic violations, then ask to see anything from your CCW to your library card, that's perfectly legal. If they arested you for not have a CCW permit, that might be an issue, but they didn't. They can ask anything they want.
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:01   #11
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Originally Posted by Stock.glock View Post
I'm all about avoiding unpleasantries, but what about the guy who open carries with no permit? Should he be pulled from the bike and cuffed because the cop did not know the law? (not saying for sure this would have happened to me but wouldn't have surprise me.) In my opinion the cops should know the laws and requirements. It's part of their job. And they should also stick to the law and not try to abuse their powers.

And yes I am familiar with PA's open carry law in a vehicle as I ride up there a lot since I live in the Morgantown area. I've never been hassled up there but if I did I'd be glad to show my CCP as that is part of the law. But it's not in WV.

And by the way, I only open carry when I ride my motorcycle, otherwise it's concealed. There is just no comfortable and safe way to conceal my glock when on my bike otherwise I would.
Keep your goal in mind while writing the letter and during the follow up call. It shouldn’t be an accusation letter; it should be a letter from an informed and concerned citizen that is interested in having those in law enforcement be on the same page. The impression you wish for the reader is one that motivates him/her to share the applicable laws with those on the street so they are better informed when dealing with those that OC.

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Old 08-20-2012, 06:14   #12
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Yes I am aware of the gun laws for the cities of Charleston, Dunbar, and South Charleston. As I understand them, you can still carry on the streets, just not places like parks and city owned property? It doesn't really matter for my case because I wasn't riding in these cities.

Yea I guess it's fine for them to ask for my CCP, but when I tell them I do not need to show it, they have no right to get in my face and say "boy are you gonna show me the f'ing license or not" in a very heated manner. And by the way he says he pulled me over for no lisence plate light.... It's not like I was just in a high speed pursuit or something, so he had no reason to suspect me of being dangerous, just for clarification.

I do like the idea of sending them a letter. I think that may help. I need to find the address to the county office. I just wish my tax dollars spent on their training would have already taught them what they needed to know about such a serious issue, the issue being the legality of civilians with guns
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:20   #13
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You didn't describe any abuse in your first post - if the police pull you over for traffic violations, then ask to see anything from your CCW to your library card, that's perfectly legal. .
They can ask anything they want.
But you don't have to comply if its not legally mandated. At least in my America.
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:20   #14
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And I'm also 99% sure he pulled me over for having a gun, not for the plate. Because once he got the excuse out of his mouth initially, the plate problem wasn't discussed further. No ticket or anything. Just 10 minutes of running my info and asking questions about my gun. But that's a another whole issue I didn really plan to discuss in this thread.
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:31   #15
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One needs to pick his battles wisely and most battles waged on a roadside traffic stop are won by the police. I would never want to get into an arguement with someone who was armed and already upset with me. I have managed to ride from Florida to Maine a couple times and kept my gun concealed for the whole trip and managed to keep it concealed while riding here in South Florida yesterday.
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:11   #16
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One needs to pick his battles wisely and most battles waged on a roadside traffic stop are won by the police. I would never want to get into an arguement with someone who was armed and already upset with me..
That's not a battle, it's a skirmish. I agree, keep your cool
but win the battle later but filing a complaint and following it up.
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:23   #17
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My advice to you is what's already been said in this thread. Show him the license, then write a politely worded letter to the agency. Contacting the WVCDL and seeing if they will send a letter probably wouldn't be a bad idea, either.
Trying to "educate" a Law Enforcement Officer roadside is rarely going to go well.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:05   #18
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I guess the question is, can LEO demand to see your CCW? If so, OCing vs CCW is irrelevant.

In my state, you are not required to present or notify LEO of CCW; however, they can request to see your CCW, at such time you have to present it.



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Old 08-20-2012, 10:27   #19
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All my years riding a motorcycle I have never once been stopped. In my car, in my boat in a semi-truck many times but never once on a motorcycle.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:44   #20
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They can ask anything they want.
But you don't have to comply if its not legally mandated. At least in my America.
That's right you don't. But your attorney will be sending you a Christmas card thanking you for all your business in the past year.

In other words, down the road the police may not end up charging you with anything, but you will be nailed with large legal fees anyways. You may win the battle, but not the war.

You've got to realize it's the cop's dog an pony show at that point; comply with them and write the follow-up letter later.

Last edited by CA Escapee; 08-20-2012 at 11:45..
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