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Old 11-18-2012, 13:17   #1
Rockimook
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Pistol Grip suggestions

Does anyone have the ATI Talon Pistol Grip for your shotgun. Shooting with the stock pistol grip on my Mossberg 500 can be pretty brutal on the nuckle of my thumb. Does the Talon Grip help? Is it a better and more comfortable grip?

Last edited by Rockimook; 11-19-2012 at 18:11.. Reason: Different Title
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:03   #2
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ATI=crap.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:05   #3
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If you insist on a pistol grip only Mossberg, I'd suggest going with the (Blackhawk) Knoxx Breachers Grip. PGO shotguns are hardly ideal, IMO, though.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:34   #4
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ATI=crap.
Since its crap do u have any suggestions on something else to get?
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:36   #5
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Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post
If you insist on a pistol grip only Mossberg, I'd suggest going with the (Blackhawk) Knoxx Breachers Grip. PGO shotguns are hardly ideal, IMO, though.
I got it for home defense, i don't see myself put it up to my shoulder if i come out my bedroom and see someone in my house. I was thinking about a folding stock though.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:44   #6
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What about Hogue?
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Old 11-18-2012, 20:41   #7
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If you're clearing a house with a stockless shotgun, you need training.

If you're clearing a house alone, you're either suicidal or have absolutely no other choice. Doing it with a stockless shotgun just adds icing to the stinking pile of crap. I've cleared a few thousand buildings in my time with entire fire teams, this isn't a random statement.

Get a Speedfeed IV-S or a 12" LOP Hogue rubberized stock.
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Old 11-18-2012, 21:22   #8
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If you're clearing a house with a stockless shotgun, you need training.

If you're clearing a house alone, you're either suicidal or have absolutely no other choice. Doing it with a stockless shotgun just adds icing to the stinking pile of crap. I've cleared a few thousand buildings in my time with entire fire teams, this isn't a random statement.

Get a Speedfeed IV-S or a 12" LOP Hogue rubberized stock.
Thanks for your comment but I'm just looking for suggestions on pistol grips. Not full stocks. I'm not looking for something to clear homes with, just to protect my family. If someone is in my place I'm not going to hide in my closet so I guess I'm suicudal. A full stock just won't be ideal for my apartment.
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Old 11-19-2012, 00:13   #9
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You honestly would be better served with someone besides a PGO. There are techniques you can learn that will help you using a shorter stock but a PGO only grip is of minimal value on a SD/HD shotgun.

Please buy a box of whatever respectable self defense loads you've settled on and fire 50 of them at the range in a training session. I will wager that you will not become proficient and that your hand will hurt so bad you will wonder why you didn't listen to someone who said otherwise.

I played with the PGO thing years ago and it was heady stuff until I tried using it in different scenarios.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:17   #10
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I would disagree with ATI being completely crap. I have their talon adjustible stock on my 500 and it is awesome. Had 0 issues and the talon stock with the gel pads really helps with the recoil. I have absolutely no regrets buying it and would buy another.
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Old 11-19-2012, 17:01   #11
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I will echo that from my experience with various ATI products, that I would not put them on anything other than airsoft guns (the worst was an AR-15 castle nut that had no slots for staking).

My advice is ditch the pistol-grip-only for a real stock. MrMurphy knows what he is talking about. Get a real stock and get training. With your PGO stock and attitude you're likely to get yourself or someone you love killed in the event something does happen where you need to use it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 18:08   #12
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I will echo that from my experience with various ATI products, that I would not put them on anything other than airsoft guns (the worst was an AR-15 castle nut that had no slots for staking).

My advice is ditch the pistol-grip-only for a real stock. MrMurphy knows what he is talking about. Get a real stock and get training. With your PGO stock and attitude you're likely to get yourself or someone you love killed in the event something does happen where you need to use it.
So I'm safer with a full stock is what your saying?
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Old 11-19-2012, 18:21   #13
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So I'm safer with a full stock is what your saying?
You're more likely to hit what you're aiming at under stress with a stock. That makes it safer for anyone who isn't in the same room with you, or those who are in other apartments. You'd also be safer not trying to clear your apartment unless you had no other choice.

Imagine, you're moving (since you're trying to clear the room). You're probably shaking from nervousness. It's probably a low/no light situation. Keeping a PGO shotgun well aimed in such conditions is hard. Factor in having to use one hand to do other things (turn on lights, grab other family members, push off an attacker), and you're in a bad situation.

On top of that, if you're trying to aim a PGO shotgun, the length is going to be about the same as using one with a collapsible or youth stock. If you're firing from the hip, then please, do all your neighbors a favor and don't use the shotgun.
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Last edited by WayaX; 11-19-2012 at 18:22..
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Old 11-19-2012, 19:04   #14
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If you want a PGO Mossberg, get a Speedfeed Birdshead grip.

It's shaped better for recoil control and safety-use.

But I will second everything said about using a full stock. PGO's have almost no value outside of a breacher role.
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Old 11-19-2012, 19:45   #15
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You're more likely to hit what you're aiming at under stress with a stock. That makes it safer for anyone who isn't in the same room with you, or those who are in other apartments. You'd also be safer not trying to clear your apartment unless you had no other choice.

Imagine, you're moving (since you're trying to clear the room). You're probably shaking from nervousness. It's probably a low/no light situation. Keeping a PGO shotgun well aimed in such conditions is hard. Factor in having to use one hand to do other things (turn on lights, grab other family members, push off an attacker), and you're in a bad situation.

On top of that, if you're trying to aim a PGO shotgun, the length is going to be about the same as using one with a collapsible or youth stock. If you're firing from the hip, then please, do all your neighbors a favor and don't use the shotgun.
Okay. Thanks for all your help!!!!
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Old 11-19-2012, 20:02   #16
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Rock,

Wayax, as well as Murph, are passing on their knowledge and experience and it's valuable stuff.

The circle of a good learning environment is to take the knowledge of others, use it and then pass back what you've learned. Take and give back freely is how all of this evolves. No one is an absolute teacher and no one is an absolute student.

I too had fun with the PGO thing 20 years ago but it's practical use is virtually nil for all the reasons the others have laid out. They are passing on their knowledge and the value of that wisdom is being offered to you. If you want, add that PGO to your shotgun, take a weekend class and if you come up with a technique that overcomes the shortfalls of a PGO, then share it back so others can learn.
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Old 11-19-2012, 20:27   #17
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Rock,

Wayax, as well as Murph, are passing on their knowledge and experience and it's valuable stuff.

The circle of a good learning environment is to take the knowledge of others, use it and then pass back what you've learned. Take and give back freely is how all of this evolves. No one is an absolute teacher and no one is an absolute student.

I too had fun with the PGO thing 20 years ago but it's practical use is virtually nil for all the reasons the others have laid out. They are passing on their knowledge and the value of that wisdom is being offered to you. If you want, add that PGO to your shotgun, take a weekend class and if you come up with a technique that overcomes the shortfalls of a PGO, then share it back so others can learn.
I understand. I like the way u put that instead of just saying PGO doesn't work, get a full stock. I actually own both, I have a 590 with a full stock and a Ati adjustable stock. I've had a bit of training using both, adjustable stock and PGO. The training is actually what drove me to buy the 500 and use it PGO. It just works better for me, I'm just more comfortable and proficient with pistols and PGO shotguns in close quarters than with rifles and full stock shotguns. Sorry I don't have any words of wisdom on the subject, it just works for me. I didn't feel the need in explaining this at first because all I wanted was some suggestions on pistol grip, not everyone's opinion on why I shouldn't use PGO
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Old 11-19-2012, 22:49   #18
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If you don't mind sharing, what did the class cover? I'm interested in drills at 15+ yards where you are shooting two, loading two and so on. How did do at distance with the PG? And did you do any kneeling or prone shooting? I'm just trying to see what techniques you used to get good hits.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:45   #19
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If you don't mind sharing, what did the class cover? I'm interested in drills at 15+ yards where you are shooting two, loading two and so on. How did do at distance with the PG? And did you do any kneeling or prone shooting? I'm just trying to see what techniques you used to get good hits.
The basics- stance, grip, sight alignment, trigger squeeze. Scenarios- Home defense, shooting from cover, shooting from concealment. Reloading.
Little kneeling, very little prone. Didn't shoot pass 25 yards. Pretty good at 25 yards with PGO and pistol grip forend with factory bead sight, will admit was better with adjustable stock. I don't really have any techniques to suggest, shooting pistols just kinda comes naturally to me. Plus i shoot with my SF buddy and his friends which helps. I kinda just treat the PGO like a huge pistol as much as I can. It probably doesn't make sense to most but it works for me.

Close quarters single and multiple target drills. This is where PGO works best for me.

Last edited by Rockimook; 11-20-2012 at 09:48.. Reason: close quarters
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:48   #20
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Quote:
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... and pistol grip forend...
OK, this is bad.

Pistol grip forends (PGF) will do nasty things to your shotgun and eventually lead to a gun that becomes increasingly harder to cycle and to the replacing of parts. Think of PGFs as the one evil sperm that contains all the bad mojo you never want to see come to life.

The reason is simple physics.

When you have a regular forend you pull it straight back into the receiver however with a PGF, you are still pulling back AND you are also torquing the grip in a clockwise fashion towards your torso as you rack the slide. It's not possible to rack the PGF any other way. You are torquing the forend and soon, the rails will not be parallel with each other and they will start to bind inside the receiver. In turn, you will rack it even harder to overcome the resistence which just exacerbates the problem. Go back to some other forend.

Bombay Sapphire is good gin. PGF is bad gin.
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Last edited by Buffering; 11-20-2012 at 10:49.. Reason: had to refill my coffee mug before I was done
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