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Old 11-20-2012, 04:47   #1
DannyR
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Masaad Ayoob Class Debriefing

Wow, what an educational four days in Reevesville, SC!

Day 1--Range, 9am-7pm, cold, rainy, muddy.
Day 2--Range, 8am-6pm, cold muddy
Day 3--classroom--9am-8pm
Day 4--classroom--9am-7pm, more rain

First of all, I must thank our most gracious hosts, Tommy and Lisa Marie Judy. They treated us like family and went out of their way to accommodate all. B.E.L.T. is a fine training facility. I rate them a 10+

Range:
At the range, we practiced Weaver, Chapman and Isosceles stances. We practiced one handed shooting, both straight and McMillan cant. We shot from a low crouch, high kneeling and low kneeling (in the mud). We shot with our eyes closed. We shot with our hands shaking as hard as we could make them shake. We shot looking over the sights. We practiced speed reloads, again in the mud. Most of our 26 shooters used Glocks.

It was a thing of beauty to watch Mas and Gail, both shooting Glocks, each shoot a perfect 300 in the qualifier. Then we shot the 60 round qualifier. One shot a perfect 300, and a young lady shooting a Ruger SP101 shot a 299. I shot a 275.

None complained about the weather, mud or temperature.

Classroom:
The classroom training was intense to say the least. I cannot discuss the contents of the 21 hours of classroom lecture, but can say it was stunning, eye opening, sometimes shocking and above all a fantastic learning experience. You must take notes, lots of notes if you want to pass the exam (and for other reasons).

Is the class for you? YES! Everyone that owns a firearm for personal protection should take it without hesitation or mental reservation. What you learn in four days may very well save your life and freedom.

Again, thank you Mas, Gail, Tommy, Judy and BELT Staff, and all my classmates, especially my good friend Bob Temple. Bob retrieved my magazines from the mud and pasted my targets when I was exhausted.

Now get off your butts and sign up for the next class available to you. See http://massadayoobgroup.com/

Also check out the training schedule at http://www.belttraining.com/

Final note: Don't outsmart yourself as I did. Mas said three magazines. I loaded 26 magazines, 6 rounds each. After a day of speed reloading drills in the mud, I now have 26 mags to clean instead of 3.
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Last edited by DannyR; 11-20-2012 at 04:55..
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:15   #2
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I invite the other eight attending Glocktalk/GSSF members to contribute their thoughts.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:15   #3
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How much was this?

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Old 11-20-2012, 12:24   #4
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The four-day class is $800.00 plus 500 rounds of ammo, and worth every penny. I've wanted to take this class for nearly 15 years, and the stars finally aligned for me.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:35   #5
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I went out there a few months ago and received basic shooting from Lisa Marie. She was great. I intended to join you guys but I will be attending a class there with my church security team as soon as it can be scheduled...............DOC
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Old 11-20-2012, 15:02   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyR View Post
The four-day class is $800.00 plus 500 rounds of ammo, and worth every penny. I've wanted to take this class for nearly 15 years, and the stars finally aligned for me.
BT, DT with Mas, Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Rogers, several others.

Mas is not the best on teaching the shooting side, although he is pretty good and better than many out there.

Not knocking Mas; since his is a traveling class, he is limited by whatever shooting facility he has to work with. The others I mention have their own facilities. You have to go to them; Mas comes to you.

But there is no question that he is the "go to" guy with respect to surviving the court fight(s) after you have sucessfully survived the attempt to kill you.

The "surviving court" part of the course is worth the $800 alone. If I ever have to actually use the G37 currently on my hip, I want him at my defense table.

The trigger time is the icing on the cake.

Last edited by Comrade Bork; 11-20-2012 at 15:06..
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:26   #7
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Very good class and no complaints. Like Danny said, worth every penny. Lisa Marie and Tommy do a fantastic job providing services to the community in the way of firearms training.

Yes it was wet, cold and breezy, but still that in and of itself is a testament to what you can expect on a bad day when things go south. I believe the weather helped to encourage other classmates to focus on the task at hand, and it showed in the scores we shot.

I too had expected more shooting. And I also expected closer ground work (laying down etc) and gun handing skills I had been thru before. Really, I'm happy we didn't do that, but was mentally prepared. Mas' class forced me to use other techinques I had not tried. I found several changes I need to make now for better aim. I can see I need more practice ,(always a good thing).

Of all the training I have attended, I came away from Mas' class with an indepth understanding of what my fellow citizens, and the real world expects of me as a CWP holder.

I honestly thought going into this class that the cost was a bit high. I walked away wondering, "Why it doesn't cost more?"
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Last edited by Glockrunner; 11-23-2012 at 08:35..
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:40   #8
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Without getting into the specifics of his classroom material, did he give actual case cites to cases backing up his assertions concerning modifications, ammo choices, etc?

***The above is NOT an invitation to rehash every pro or anti Ayoob opinion on the internet. Please do not go down that road. It is simply a question about the course content and nothing more.

Last edited by legacy38; 11-23-2012 at 10:42..
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:48   #9
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"If it aint raining, we aint training"
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:27   #10
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Without getting into the specifics of his classroom material, did he give actual case cites to cases backing up his assertions concerning modifications, ammo choices, etc?
That's a good question. Last month I went through qualifying to teach NRA Personal Protection in the Home and part of those classes requires a LEO with specific creds or a lawyer familiar with the material that must be covered in the syllabus. We had a LEO and a LEO comes to that material with a different perspective than a lawyer likely will.

Mas is a LEO, but has testified in many-many court cases so might be the best of both worlds. I would be interested to know about cites, as well.
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Old 11-23-2012, 13:31   #11
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I'm thoroughly intrigued, and have my eye on a couple of locations near the left coast for 2013.

I've also head that the NRA courses: Personal Protection Outside the Home, and Inside the Home are great classes.
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Last edited by 1RoundEye; 11-23-2012 at 13:31..
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Old 11-23-2012, 13:46   #12
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...I've also head that the NRA courses: Personal Protection Outside the Home, and Inside the Home are great classes.
They're pretty good for the ol' laid-back NRA. These courses finally begin teaching self defense with IDPA similarities. Ironically, the targets are D-1s because NRA doesn't allow targets representing a person (with a head, for instance.)

Prerequisites are NRA First Steps Pistol, Basic Pistol Shooting, or DD-214 with firearms training endorsement, etc.

If you want to instruct the course(s) you must take NRA BIT (Basic Instructor Training) and the student and instructor courses for the course you want to teach. As luck should have it, my club pays for everything because we are volunteer instructors and give back many times over.
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Old 11-23-2012, 13:56   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legacy38 View Post
Without getting into the specifics of his classroom material, did he give actual case cites to cases backing up his assertions concerning modifications, ammo choices, etc?

***The above is NOT an invitation to rehash every pro or anti Ayoob opinion on the internet. Please do not go down that road. It is simply a question about the course content and nothing more.
I would have to say, "You would need to either ask Mas or take the course."
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Old 11-23-2012, 14:23   #14
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I would have to say, "You would need to either ask Mas or take the course."
We just want to know if case-law was presented...
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Old 11-23-2012, 14:25   #15
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Mas references many specific cases.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:12   #16
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Quote:
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I would have to say, "You would need to either ask Mas or take the course."
I am not trying to get something for free. Asking a student for an assessment of an instructor and their material is not improper. I didn't ask for the course material. I simply asked if cases were cited to back up the material. This is a KEY determining factor in whether or not I would spend my money on a cours.

You also presumed that no discussion with Mr. Ayoob have taken place.

Quote:
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Mas references many specific cases.
Thanks you. Did he give the actual case citations so that the transcripts could and records could be obtained, of did he mention an example of a case having taken place relating to the point at hand?

Last edited by legacy38; 11-25-2012 at 12:17..
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:18   #17
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He quotes State vs so-and-so in month/year. Students are welcomed to write down the info and research on their own. Students are urged to take good notes. I'm a lousy note taker but I have 20 pages of hand written notes.

I think the class is worthwhile for everyone. None are required to take it. None are required to be practice with their firearm and become more proficient. None are required to learn as much as possible about anything. A wise person learns and practices as much as possible.

One may take either 20-hour class for $400.00, or the complete session for $800.00.
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Last edited by DannyR; 11-25-2012 at 12:24..
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:24   #18
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He quotes State vs so-and-so in month/year. Students are welcomed to write down the info and research on their own. Students are urged to take good notes. I'm a lousy note taker but I have 20 pages of hand written notes.
Thank you. That is very helpful.
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Old 11-25-2012, 15:17   #19
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The OP REALLY makes this sound good. It is definitely on my bucket list. If I ever get the 6 magic numbers and the time in my personal life it is a thing I'll definitely do. Both because I'd enjoy it to the max and also because it would improve my ability to defend myself safely and effectively and therefore instill me with a much higher level of confidence.

Some day..............
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Old 11-25-2012, 15:51   #20
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Mas takes his class on the road. Just watch the schedule and go when you can.
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