GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-24-2012, 21:09   #176
Rabbi
Lifetime Membership
The Bombdiggity
 
Rabbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San AntonioTexas
Posts: 29,872


Quote:
Originally Posted by JDennis View Post
Is that Zartan?...and what is grabbing his junk?
__________________
In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
Rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 22:23   #177
Glocksanity
Senior Member
 
Glocksanity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angeles, Man, Los Angeles
Posts: 1,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
BTW, PLEASE...of PLEASE tell me more about this.

You have already opened the door. Is your mission to watch your fellow man suffer so you can say 'I told you so..." Or is your mission to save us?

If it is to save us, please, PLEASE given me your pitch. I have to know! Even if you think I will mock you (even if I mock you to myself)....if you mission is to save, then you have to tell me, what I do with that info is on MY head.

Do tell...please, do tell.
My fellow man is already suffering. We all have our own karmas. My mission is to be true to myself. Convincing or saving others is a fool's errand.
__________________
G21~G26~G30~G34

Sic semper evello mortem Tyrannis!
Glocksanity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 22:25   #178
Rabbi
Lifetime Membership
The Bombdiggity
 
Rabbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San AntonioTexas
Posts: 29,872


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glocksanity View Post
My fellow man is already suffering. We all have our own karmas. My mission is to be true to myself. Convincing or saving others is a fool's errand.
Just give me a date. At what point do you realize you are insane and wasted your life?

Or do you commit to this for the rest of your life?
__________________
In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
Rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 00:45   #180
mixflip
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by vart View Post
The Bible doesn't really close the door on the possibilities of other created beings in other galaxies... It doesn't mention them, but doesn't say they don't exist, either...
I agree.The bible doesn't mention dinosaurs either but they existed for millions of years.
mixflip is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 01:31   #181
czsmithGT
Senior Member
 
czsmithGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
If people refused to learn from those who are pricks and might hurt their feelings... there wouldn't be any physicists or mathematicians. Physics and mathematics aren't very ego-nurturing fields.
When the terms of an equation developed to estimate the probability that life may exist in places other than earth are mainly unprovable guesses, the mathematics are not terribly compelling.
czsmithGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 02:25   #182
G29Reload
Tread Lightly
 
G29Reload's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 11,129
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDennis View Post
The best we can do is send a billion dollar r/c car to mars...
That's pretty damn good, actually!

The images returned are stunning.

It's performing gas chromatography on the soil.

Sniffing the atmosphere for methane.

Has a high gain antenna for direct transmission to Earth.

Nuclear powered


Not exactly slacking if you ask me...
__________________
Avenge me...AVENGE ME!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_z2d4IxltHJ...on%26Fence.png
G29Reload is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 07:21   #183
SDGlock23
Glockoholic
 
SDGlock23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Land of Forgetfulness
Posts: 7,490
I would say there is definitely life outside of planet Earth.
__________________
"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance."
SDGlock23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 08:25   #184
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
When the terms of an equation developed to estimate the probability that life may exist in places other than earth are mainly unprovable guesses, the mathematics are not terribly compelling.
Even so, there are things that one can learn.

A big number divided by another big number could be something near zero, could approach infinity, or could be finite and exactly equal to something (the entire quantum electrodynamics sector is renormalized this way; "one infinity" divided by "another infinity" = charge of the electron).

Since we don't know the magnitude of most of the parameters in the Drake equation, even if your conjecture were true:

Quote:
If it turns out to be a 100% certainty that given the presence of all the right chemicals in an environment of suitable temperature range over a time period pf billions of years
it is NOT possible to then draw the conclusion that you draw:

Quote:
than ET life is plentiful.
You'd have a very large term in part of the equation, but it could easily be balanced (or zeroed out) by another term that's very small.

You're saying contradictory things: first you say "life must be plentiful" because some of the terms are probably very large, then you say "the mathematics are not terribly compelling" because you don't understand how the rest of the equation could work.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 09:37   #185
Rabbi
Lifetime Membership
The Bombdiggity
 
Rabbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San AntonioTexas
Posts: 29,872


Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
When the terms of an equation developed to estimate the probability that life may exist in places other than earth are mainly unprovable guesses, the mathematics are not terribly compelling.
You are not making an enlightened statement here, you are just getting louder in telling us you dont understand how the math works and nothing is going to get in the way of how you feel.
__________________
In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
Rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 11:24   #186
ca survivor
Senior Member
 
ca survivor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9jeeps View Post
A drive down your local traffic arterial will convince you there is extra terrestrial life right here on Terra Firma!
ca survivor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 12:11   #187
racerford
Senior Member
 
racerford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: DFW area
Posts: 4,869


OF course extra terrestrial life exists. Heck we have it right here. There have been babies born off the earth. They have been born in boats and in airplanes. Doesn't that make them extra terrestrial?

I don't think it is possible to prove extra terrestrial does not exist, as it is difficult to prove a negative. Especially since we have reasonable scientific proof that life does exist in at least one place, so then why not two places?

Assuming there is a god, then there are likely other more successful attempts at creating life that exist. Given our imperfect nature there really should be more successful implementations of be made in a perfect god's own image.

The question should if there is extra terrestrial corporeal life, but if there is any chance of encountering it.
racerford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 12:27   #188
Jack23
I. B. Glockin'
 
Jack23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Deer Park, Texas
Posts: 2,956


One of my favorite musicians expressed his opinion on this subject. Don Henley put down in song "They're not here; they're not coming". I like his music a lot but I still remain extremely interested and open minded. There are some good point to support the possibility and also maybe some points to support the total impossibility of it all.

I don't believe that there is any type of math or physics or other current science that can definitively prove or disprove the presence of ET on earth or long distance (millions of light years) space travel but I am open minded to the development of such science in the future

Points to support the possibility:
. The deceitful and mischievous nature of man aside, There are just too many documented cases of sightings and first hand experiences to support the possibility. I believe that there is a sizable grain of truth here. Whitley Streiber (author of "Wolfen" made into a movie with Albert Finney and Gregory Heinze) wrote his personal experiences of being abducted numerous times in his early child hood in a non fictiton book called "Communion". He leaves us to draw our own conclusions here but makes a most compelling case for his memory of the ordeal. He was regressed by an unbiased professional psychologist who was unfamiliar with him. The book includes the unabridged transcripts of the sessions and it is fascinating.

Also the case of Barney and Betty Hill. A married couple who's abduction case has been studied by numerous experts for decades and appears to be legitimate.

. Not only the number of documented reports but the number of reports from reputable sources that could be expected to be above suspicion.

. The very fact of our relative infancy in this universe and our experience in it and knowledge of it. There could be civilizations hundreds of thousands of years or older out there and we are just to far away to be able to locate them at this point in our scientific/technological infancy. There is an infinite number of possibilities of different types of life out there that our limited imagination just can't possibly conceive of at this point. The Characteristics of time offer interesting and unlimited possibilities for travel through space and time.

I have tried to think of some examples of indications that such a thing is impossible. But really I can think of no way to be absolutely 100% positive that it is impossible and there is no way at this time to scientifically, or mathematically prove that there isn't now and has never been any ETs on our planet, and/or never could be, and/or any life of any kind on any other planet.

The possibility that We are actually native for a foreign planet seems pretty far fetched but then who really knows. As I said up top, I am very interested and open minded here. I don't think I want to be the one that has the experience of being abducted or seeing any ETs cause I'd probably wet my pants. But I would like for us to have some absolute, positive, irrefutable proof that it does exist and/or is possible. I suspect that I'll never know in my lifetime but if we, as a species, don't destroy our planet and render ourselves extinct before we get the chance, someday the truth will be known.
__________________
G-17, G-23, G-21, G-36, Ruger blackhawk, ss, Ruger 10/22, Ruger Mark II, Ruger SP101, British Webley MKI .455, Kel-Tec P32, S&W top break .38, S&W 24-3 .44spl N frame Colt 1903 .32, Heritage .22 Combo, Colt AR-15, LE6920.
Jack23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 12:33   #189
Jack23
I. B. Glockin'
 
Jack23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Deer Park, Texas
Posts: 2,956


Quote:
Originally Posted by racerford View Post
OF course extra terrestrial life exists. Heck we have it right here. There have been babies born off the earth. They have been born in boats and in airplanes. Doesn't that make them extra terrestrial?
Now here is an interesting concept. I look at it like this. Those who were born at sea and in airplanes were bred by earthlings. And although they were not born on terra-firma, as it were, the were born within the Earth's atmosphere so in this line of reason they would not be extra terrestrial. Hmmmm. Is that right? Whadda y'all think?
__________________
G-17, G-23, G-21, G-36, Ruger blackhawk, ss, Ruger 10/22, Ruger Mark II, Ruger SP101, British Webley MKI .455, Kel-Tec P32, S&W top break .38, S&W 24-3 .44spl N frame Colt 1903 .32, Heritage .22 Combo, Colt AR-15, LE6920.
Jack23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 12:48   #190
Glocksanity
Senior Member
 
Glocksanity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angeles, Man, Los Angeles
Posts: 1,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
Just give me a date. At what point do you realize you are insane and wasted your life?

Or do you commit to this for the rest of your life?
I may be insane, but that does not mean I am wrong.

As for wasting my life? How could you ever assume to know whether or not I am wasting my life? You know nothing about what I do, who I am, and how I live my life.

It's like all the anti-gunners saying that we all walk around in fear because we carry guns when it is the exact opposite. We have no fear because we have the guns and are aware of our environment. Same with the reptilian agenda. I enjoy life even more because I know the truth. Ha ha ha. Life is awesome in this shape shifting reptilian dominated dominion.
__________________
G21~G26~G30~G34

Sic semper evello mortem Tyrannis!
Glocksanity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 12:50   #191
inthefrey
Moved on...
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,952
How about the best answer, "...we really don't know..."

After all the math, after all the "sightings" after all the hooooo-haaaaa, after all the TV documentaries, we really don't know. Would it be cool to have Vulcans land in the back yard? Damn right it would.

However, the question about extra terrestrials and the basic formula seems very simplistic to me: Does matter+energy+time (needs defining) equal life and/or intelligence? Can anyone define how much time or energy or matter is needed to get life? Now, please don't tell me it is any more complicated than this because it really isn't.

We can pontificate about it all day but, we really don't know and probably will not in our lifetimes.

Last edited by inthefrey; 11-25-2012 at 12:52..
inthefrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 13:36   #192
vart
Senior Member
 
vart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Moscow, ID
Posts: 16,773


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glocksanity View Post
Same with the reptilian agenda. I enjoy life even more because I know the truth. Ha ha ha. Life is awesome in this shape shifting reptilian dominated dominion.
The Okie Corral
__________________
Okie -

"That's a big bite of crap sandwich, my friend..."

Rabbi - "Anyways, that is a beautiful car. Bill probably already farted in it."

Last edited by vart; 11-25-2012 at 17:48..
vart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 13:49   #193
muscogee
Senior Member
 
muscogee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 6,841


Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry Fist View Post
Considering how far we have come in the last 500 years, just imagine a similar culture that has a 10,000 year head start on industrialization. They could have attained FTL travel thousands of years ago.
What if we're the most advanced civilization in the universe?
__________________
"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."

Leona Helmsley
muscogee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 14:11   #194
Dragoon44
Lifetime Membership
Unfair Facist
 
Dragoon44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 24,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
What if we're the most advanced civilization in the universe?
Earth rules! the universe drools!!!

__________________
Right is still right, even if nobody is doing it. And wrong is still wrong, even if everybody is doing it.Texas Ranger saying.
Dragoon44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 14:36   #195
IQof1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
BTW, for some math in this thread, I really think the Drake Equation shows that statistical probability rather well.

If you start pluging things in, there is an overlap between the chances of life and some statistical models of what it takes for life to form. To be blunt, if you have the building blocks for life, there is a mathematical model for how many "tries" it would take to produce life. If you look at the number of places, in some cosmological models, that this could happen, that math could over lap.
I remember as a kid seeing an equation on Nova or some show like that which stated sometng to the effect of:

If 0.1% of all stars in 0.1% of our galaxy had a planet and of those planets, 0.1% held life. There would something like 400,000 alien species out there.

I read the Drake Equation on Wiki and it seems to say that but in a more 12% of brain usage manner than my humble 7% ( I lost a few % due to women, partying and 20+ years of military work).

I want to associate that with Carl Sagan(one of my childhood heroes) but I honestly can't remember if he was the guy talking about it.
IQof1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 14:50   #196
Minnow
JUST ADD SWAG
 
Minnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: escaping the bait bucket!
Posts: 2,718
Interesting words by Stephen Hawking


Last edited by Minnow; 11-25-2012 at 14:50..
Minnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 15:03   #197
Minnow
JUST ADD SWAG
 
Minnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: escaping the bait bucket!
Posts: 2,718
And Michio Kaku

Minnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 16:46   #198
Angry Fist
Lifetime Membership
The Original
 
Angry Fist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 24,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
What if we're the most advanced civilization in the universe?
Then so be it. 1 million times more likely is that I am going to get elected Pope and Caliph on the same day.
__________________
I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, s**t-kickers, Methodists, and the GTDS.
Angry Fist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 17:03   #199
Glocksanity
Senior Member
 
Glocksanity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angeles, Man, Los Angeles
Posts: 1,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
You are not making an enlightened statement here, you are just getting louder in telling us you dont understand how the math works and nothing is going to get in the way of how you feel.
God either decided to put life on planets other than earth or he did not. It has nothing to do with math at all.
__________________
G21~G26~G30~G34

Sic semper evello mortem Tyrannis!
Glocksanity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 18:21   #200
Rabbi
Lifetime Membership
The Bombdiggity
 
Rabbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San AntonioTexas
Posts: 29,872


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glocksanity View Post
God either decided to put life on planets other than earth or he did not. It has nothing to do with math at all.
Prove that G-d is real.

I can prove the validity of math.
__________________
In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
Rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 00:05.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 913
250 Members
663 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42