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Old 11-23-2012, 19:40   #1
hydrated
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SD and Woods Carry Ammo

I have recently gotten interested in the G20 and have been thinking about purchasing one. So, I have been reading some about different ammo for different situations. I am curious what you would recommend for 2 different situations. For self defense ammo I would want something that expands and is not known to penetrate too much or over penetrate but still shoots a flat trajectory and is effective. For woods carry ammo for hiking and backpacking I would want something that has a lot of penetration and power suitable for larger animals one might encounter. What might you guys recommend I look into? Or... what would you use?
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:41   #2
Andrew Wiggin
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I presume you mean full power 10mm ammo. There is a valid argument to be made for using watered down FBI lite type loads for defense for faster shooting. If you're looking to use a full power load, I'd recommend nothing lighter than 165 gr as it doesn't look as though the lighter bullets will meet minimum penetration requirements. From what I've tested so far, I like Buffalo Bore 180 gr with the Montana Gold bullet and 180 gr XTP at 1,290 fps. I also like 165 gr Gold Dots at 1,310 fps. I'm working my way through a lot of different loads. I'm buying some soft point 180 gr bullets that may be pretty neat for a sort of medium penetration woods load. For defense against VERY large animals such as grizzly bear, no handgun is really suitable but the most widely recommended load for 10mm for bear defense is 220 gr hard cast.

Take a look at this and some of my other videos. That should hopefully give you a general idea of what certain bullet weights do at certain velocities.

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Old 11-24-2012, 12:18   #3
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Thanks Andrew! So, if I understand correctly, it would be the 220 grain hard cast for woods carry. (Doubtful I would every meet a large animal such as a grizzly, mostly medium game which would be unlikely to approach a human. But I want something for the worst case senario as you never know.) And for personal protection full power 165 grain hollow point. Is that right? Would you recommend the FBI light loads for personal protection? If so what would you recommend?

Also I was just looking at DoubleTap's 10mm 230gr. WFNGC Hardcast, what do you think about those?
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:20   #4
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By the way, I am not into reloading right now. Maybe eventually, but right now I am looking for something you can get off the shelf (or online.)
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Old 11-24-2012, 15:28   #5
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By the way, I am not into reloading right now. Maybe eventually, but right now I am looking for something you can get off the shelf (or online.)

Since you are not reloading, everything you need can be had here:

http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto.aspx
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Old 11-24-2012, 19:14   #6
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For self defense, if you want full power, I still like the Winchester Silvertip. It has been watered down over the years, but most recent tests show it back up around 1100fps. The older STs ran a solid 1260-1290fps. They were in the white box with red & orange racing stripe and black horse and rider.

For woods use, the 180gr bonded SP from Cor-Bon is a good choice.
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:09   #7
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I tested CORBON's 180 gr BCSP. You may as well carry an FMJ. The velocity was lower than advertised and there was no expansion at all. Not worth the money, in my opinion. I hope that maybe the Winchester soft points I ordered will work well. If so, maybe we can talk Kevin at Underwood into loading them. In the mean time, a 180-220 gr solid will be best for penetration, with the 220 hard cast obviously driving deeper than anything else.




OP, if you want to shoot an FBI lite type load, that's up to you. You have to decide whether you believe the extra power that 10mm offers is useful for defense against humans or whether you are better off with faster shooting and more holes. Or maybe something in between. If you do go with a lighter 10mm load, Hornady's 180gr XTP should be fairly decent, though I don't know how it does through denim at that speed.
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Old 11-25-2012, 20:01   #8
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Quote:
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By the way, I am not into reloading right now. Maybe eventually, but right now I am looking for something you can get off the shelf (or online.)
For SD, I would not rely on a new gun. My opinion only. Get a new gun, modify it as you wish, then pump 1,000+ rounds through it.

Only then, I think it becomes highly sleek and reliable

The process of these 1,000 rounds can break even on reloading equipment, economically. Another option is to buy a well seasoned gun on resale.

Underwood products are great example, point of reference on what you can have, either buying or reloading.

Last edited by ModGlock17; 11-25-2012 at 20:06..
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:21   #9
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Either a gun works or it doesn't. You're not likely to find an issue in 1,000 rounds that you can't in 100. Yes, any firearm's statistical likelihood of failure increases with round count but in my experience any real issues occur within 20 rounds or so. You definitely do need to shoot some of your carry ammo through the gun to be sure it functions correctly.
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Old 11-26-2012, 13:31   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wiggin View Post
Either a gun works or it doesn't. You're not likely to find an issue in 1,000 rounds that you can't in 100. Yes, any firearm's statistical likelihood of failure increases with round count but in my experience any real issues occur within 20 rounds or so. You definitely do need to shoot some of your carry ammo through the gun to be sure it functions correctly.
You're a lot smarter me, Andrew. And I hope life works that way for you.

I did have just a couple of statistical modeling courses to know that 95% level of Confidence (That's what people quote, in general) doesn't justify my future in a tight situation. Murphy's tendency says that 5% tend to come up, just when you really need it.

While you're at it, here's some real data for you. Scan just this thread folder over the whole year, to see how many people having issues with their guns, a few magazines old. FTFeed and FTFire. Then scan over the Gen Glock folder.

There's another issue at stake. Know your gun intimately. Know how it feels. Close your eyes, take a sudden quarter turn to your left, present and aim your gun, does it look straight at target? (I could never do that with a Sig P226, so I sold it) Is it an extension of your hand ? Never mind, if you don't understand what I mean. If you do, continue on. I believe in that and I don't feel having shot 100 rounds is enough for me.
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Old 11-26-2012, 13:49   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakeMineA10mm View Post
For self defense, if you want full power, I still like the Winchester Silvertip. It has been watered down over the years, but most recent tests show it back up around 1100fps. The older STs ran a solid 1260-1290fps. They were in the white box with red & orange racing stripe and black horse and rider.
I pulled out my older stash of ST's in hopes of finding the racing stripe boxes but:sigh. The photo is of my older factory 10mm loads. What is the consensus on these 175, 180 & 200's:
The 10 Ring
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Old 11-26-2012, 19:45   #12
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For woods carry I use 200 grain FMJ, I want it to penetrate.
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Old 11-26-2012, 20:50   #13
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For 10mm factory stuff, hard to get better full power stuff at reasonable prices than at Underwood. I like their 165 JHP for SD. Driven at 1400 fps it represents a significant increase in power over the Silvertips - new or older versions. Underwood also offers "Delta Elite" loads that are lower pressure should you find you don't care for full power stuff. I have also tried DoubleTaps 165 load and found it to function very well on water jugs. Nice ammo but not worth the price premium.

If you are looking for a G20, make sure to handle a standard and SF model. Depending on the size of your hand the SF might be a better fit (was for me). Through research and range time, I have discovered the G20 functions just fine with 40 S&W ammo - drastically reducing your range costs if you don't reload. ($27 for 100 at Walmart) I would not trust these for SD even though my experience so far has been 100% reliable.

Take the G20 plunge - you won't regret it.
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Old 11-26-2012, 21:05   #14
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The Underwood 180 gr DE load is still a full power load.
It has plenty of kick. (1240 fps)

Last edited by sgtbones; 11-27-2012 at 08:37..
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Old 11-26-2012, 22:27   #15
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Thanks for all the replies. That actually leads me to another question, how do I know what rounds are full power?
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Old 11-26-2012, 22:36   #16
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Thanks for all the replies. That actually leads me to another question, how do I know what rounds are full power?

Underwood is full power.
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Old 11-29-2012, 20:21   #17
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Well I guess my question is this, what is the minimum ft lbs and fps of each bullet weight before it is considered full power?
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Old 11-29-2012, 20:36   #18
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Not the weight but the energy 600 ft lbs min.

Last edited by sgtbones; 11-29-2012 at 20:37..
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Old 11-29-2012, 20:43   #19
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That's it? No magic formula huh? Thanks for all the replies!
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Old 11-29-2012, 22:53   #20
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Well if any one is interested, I found a website that answers my question. http://www.bren-ten.com/website/id7.html Just scroll almost all the way down.
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