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Old 11-27-2012, 16:32   #51
Japle
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The Aramaic is the oldest of ALL manuscripts. It's not a translation.
Please provide some evidence of that.

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Israel hasn't been a nation for thousands of years.
Exactly. So Jesus couldn’t have been talking about Israel. But you said he was talking about Israel. I find these conflicting claims very conflicting.

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Very few scholars today believe Greek was the primary language anymore.
Please provide some evidence of that.

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The official church, and I use that term loosely, for hundreds of years was the RCC. They were Romans. They spoke Greek. No surprise that all of the early church writings were in Greek. They killed all of the early Jewish believers and destroyed anything that remotely smelled Jewish.
They killed them all? What a tragedy! No one was left to carry on! Oh, wait. If they were all killed and no one was left …… That means ……

Uhhhh .....
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Old 11-27-2012, 17:14   #52
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You're being an ass on purpose now.

The current nation of Israel is a country with a government and constitution. Over 2000 years ago it was too. In between........not so much. I've already said Israel could be the people or the Land.

Since you have no interest in anything that might go against your preconceived agenda, this is over.
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Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.

Last edited by Brasso; 11-27-2012 at 17:17..
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Old 11-27-2012, 20:34   #53
Japle
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Let me get this straight. You said that by “generation”, Jesus meant Israel. Then you defined Israel.

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Posted by Brasso:
By Israel I mean the nation of Israel. The people. They were exiled from the Land and the they came back to the Land, exactly on cue. Just like they did several times before. The punishment was for 2520 years, and exactly on time, they returned. Israel is the people. Israel is the Land. They are one and same. Neither will ever disappear.

Many Christians are also Israel. They just haven't figured it out yet.

I've already said Israel could be the people or the Land.
So, what you’re saying is that, when Jesus told his audience, "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done", that he was including in “generation” every Jew who was alive at the time and every Jew and many Christians who would live during the next several thousand years. Or did he mean it would never happen? You said, “Israel is the people. Israel is the Land. They are one and same. Neither will ever disappear”. If that’s the case, what Jesus said meant nothing.

It seems to me that you’ve painted yourself into a corner by defining “generation” in a way that turns Jesus’ words into nonsense. Then you call me an ass and run off.

Excellent debating technique you’ve got there.
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Old 11-27-2012, 22:18   #54
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Don't fight guys. Just take comfort in the fact that, like everyone who has made prophetic predictions based on scriptural interpretation, you're all wrong.
Wow...and you call me a troll.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:16   #55
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So, what you’re saying is that, when Jesus told his audience, "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done", that he was including in “generation” every Jew who was alive at the time and every Jew and many Christians who would live during the next several thousand years.
Yes. THAT IS WHAT I MEANT. THANK GOD. YOU FINALLY GOT IT. BRAVO.

I don't think I could have found another way to say it.

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You said, “Israel is the people. Israel is the Land. They are one and same. Neither will ever disappear”. If that’s the case, what Jesus said meant nothing.
How so? Both are true. The Land is still there. The people are still there. Do you dispute this? Did I miss the news last night where that chunk of earth disappeared? Has that area ever been anything but Israel? Even before the British Mandate there were more Jews living there than any other ethnic group. It has never had any other recognized constitutional government.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:03   #56
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Wow...and you call me a troll.
Because you are.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:07   #57
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Yes. THAT IS WHAT I MEANT. THANK GOD. YOU FINALLY GOT IT. BRAVO.
But if the land and the people will always be there... then these things will never come to pass. If the generation never ends (The Generation of Israel)... then it's all just bluster.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:49   #58
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But if the land and the people will always be there... then these things will never come to pass. If the generation never ends (The Generation of Israel)... then it's all just bluster.
You beat me to it.

Posted (sort of) by Jesus: "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."

Since "this generation" will never pass, "all these things" will never be done.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:44   #59
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I'm still confused as to what you mean.

"...till all these things be done, this generation will not pass..."

Sound like these things will happen BEFORE this generation passes (which it won't). Contextually of course, this is speaking of the time before He returns, and would inlcude those alive during that time.

And of course, you are both being obtuse again, on purpose. I still fail to understand your lack of intelligence regarding the plain text above. I can only assume you are acting stupid on purpose.

I've already stated that the prophecy is for both the time it was said and for the end times, as is evident by the wording. How can Israel both be destroyed (the temple) and bloom at the same time?


I understand your need to disprove the Bible as you are unwilling to acknowledge that you are currently destined for hell, but why do you keep trying to combine two concepts into a statement about what is going to happen to Israel just before He returns, and who Israel is?
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Old 11-28-2012, 14:16   #60
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Posted by Brasso:
I'm still confused as to what you mean.

"...till all these things be done, this generation will not pass..."

Sound like these things will happen BEFORE this generation passes (which it won't).
No wonder you’re confused. You’ve got it backwards. The text reads, “this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done”, not “till all these things be done, this generation will not pass”.

It’s funny; you think I’m being stupid on purpose. Believe me when I say I don’t think the same about you!

Try to understand that you’re talking to adults here. You’re trying to tell us that the NT was mistranslated and “generation” should have been written as “Israel, the people and the land, which will never disappear”. As has already been pointed out, that turns Jesus’ statement into gibberish.

And even if you were right, what does that tell us about the NT? If it’s that badly translated on an important statement by Jesus, what else is messed up? Can we trust any of the NT text?
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Old 11-28-2012, 15:17   #61
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Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
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John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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Old 11-28-2012, 15:19   #62
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Vic, how does that relate to the subject under discussion?
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Old 11-28-2012, 16:59   #63
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The text reads, “this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done”, not “till all these things be done, this generation will not pass”.
Are you kidding me?

I had to delete this. I refuse to discuss this with you any longer. If you can't comprehend basic english then there is no basis for a dialogue.

Please get a dictionary and study the word "till".
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Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.

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Old 11-28-2012, 17:29   #64
Japle
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Your words in post #59:
I'm still confused as to what you mean.

"...till all these things be done, this generation will not pass..."
You're the one who screwed it up. Don't blame me.
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Old 11-28-2012, 19:09   #65
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Vic, how does that relate to the subject under discussion?
This is a thread that I started. It has drifted off topic.

What I posted has to do with the obliviousness that most people regard the signs of the times.
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John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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Old 11-28-2012, 20:52   #66
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Okay, Vic. If you say so.
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Old 11-29-2012, 21:16   #67
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When the third angel’s message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God have accomplished their work. They have received “the latter rain,” “the refreshing from the presence of the Lord,” and they are prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are hastening to and fro in Heaven. An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received “the seal of the living God.” [See appendix, note 13.] Then Jesus ceases his intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts his hands, and with a loud voice says, “It is done;” and all the angelic host lay off their crowns as he makes the solemn announcement: “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still; and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still; and he that is holy, let him be holy still.” [Revelation 22:11.] Every case has been decided for life or death. Christ has made the atonement for his people, and blotted out their sins. The number of his subjects is made up; “the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven,” is about to be given to the heirs of salvation, and Jesus is to reign as King of kings, and Lord of lords. – {GC88 613.2}
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John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:31   #68
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When the third angel’s message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God have accomplished their work. They have received “the latter rain,” “the refreshing from the presence of the Lord,” and they are prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are hastening to and fro in Heaven. An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received “the seal of the living God.” [See appendix, note 13.] Then Jesus ceases his intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts his hands, and with a loud voice says, “It is done;” and all the angelic host lay off their crowns as he makes the solemn announcement: “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still; and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still; and he that is holy, let him be holy still.” [Revelation 22:11.] Every case has been decided for life or death. Christ has made the atonement for his people, and blotted out their sins. The number of his subjects is made up; “the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven,” is about to be given to the heirs of salvation, and Jesus is to reign as King of kings, and Lord of lords. – {GC88 613.2}
Copied and pasted from the book of Ellen White, Vic you are such a good sheeple.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:40   #69
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Copied and pasted from the book of Ellen White, Vic you are such a good sheeple.
Thank you. The credit is at the end of the quotation. The Great Controversy is a really good commentary of the Bible.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:47   #70
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Even now the last events are being fulfilled. While societies are becoming more secular an attempt is being made by satan to bring the world under his control.


With rapid steps we are approaching this period. When Protestant churches shall unite with the secular power to sustain a false religion, for opposing which their ancestors endured the fiercest persecution, then will the papal sabbath be enforced by the combined authority of church and state. There will be a national apostasy, which will end only in national ruin.—Manuscript 51, 1899. – {Ev 235.1}
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:48   #71
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Japle

I believe the Bible means the last generation to exist before the Lord returns. Since no one knows, not even Jesus knew when the he would return. He had to have meant the last generation before he returns.

The Bible is a book about the Jews. Jesus was a Jew and the Jewish people have always been God's chosen people. Jesus was to die for our sins. We should be thankful that he did.


Molly


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Psalm 27:14
Wait on the Lord: be of good courage, and He shall strengthen thine heart: Wait, I say, on the Lord.

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Old 11-30-2012, 10:54   #72
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For those who think a universal Sunday law is absurd;

https://my.barackobama.com/page/comm...Tritium/gG5ngR

It surely is being talked about as a good thing. It makes me wonder what is wrong with the day that God himself appointed.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:57   #73
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Japle

I believe the Bible means the last generation to exist before the Lord returns. Since no one knows, not even Jesus knew when the he would return. He had to have meant the last generation before he returns.

The Bible is a book about the Jews. Jesus was a Jew and the Jewish people have always been God's chosen people. Jesus was to die for our sins. We should be thankful that he did.


Molly

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Psalm 27:14
Wait on the Lord: be of good courage, and He shall strengthen thine heart: Wait, I say, on the Lord.
So Jesus meant that the last generation to exist before he returns will be the last generation to exists before he returns?
Isn't that pretty obvious? Why would Jesus say that and why would it be part of the Bible.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:15   #74
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So Jesus meant that the last generation to exist before he returns will be the last generation to exists before he returns?
Isn't that pretty obvious? Why would Jesus say that and why would it be part of the Bible.

Answer:Molly:
Yes, it is obvious. He said it because people even then wanted to know when the end would come. IMHO we should worry more about our own lives and how we are living. Instead of the end times, because we could walk in front of a buss and it would be the end of our life on this earth.


Molly


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"Wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed."
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:25   #75
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Posted by Neon:
I believe the Bible means the last generation to exist before the Lord returns. Since no one knows, not even Jesus knew when the he would return. He had to have meant the last generation before he returns.
You say that now, because Jesus' prophesy didn’t come true. You need some way to explain that your lord and savior made a claim that turned out to be false.

As muscogee said, your interpretation doesn’t make sense.
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