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Old 11-30-2012, 20:46   #81
ArtificialGrape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
He spoke in riddles so you would seek the meaning. That builds faith.
Jesus was The Word and omniscient. He knew that 2000 years later people would still not understand His message, and He was cool with that.

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Old 11-30-2012, 21:11   #82
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He spoke in riddles so you would seek the meaning. That builds faith.
And you need faith when there is no proof.

IMO, with the exception of Revelations, the Bible means exactly what it says. It just doesn't make sense. Revelations is the product of a delusional mind. It doesn't mean anything therefore anyone can impose any meaning on they choose.
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Old 11-30-2012, 21:18   #83
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Faith is not devoid of proof. It is proof.
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Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.
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Old 11-30-2012, 22:06   #84
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Jesus was The Word and omniscient. He knew that 2000 years later people would still not understand His message, and He was cool with that.

-ArtificialGrape
It does seem odd that He didn't do anything to prevent the sectarianism and schism of the last 2000 years.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:02   #85
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Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
Faith is not devoid of proof. It is proof.
No it isn't. Faith is belief in something for which you have no proof. It is accepting something as true with no proof...

In other words it's being a sucker.
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Old 12-01-2012, 07:50   #86
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Posted by Brasso:
I don't understand why you guys, who appear to be otherwise intelligent, have so much trouble with simple English.
We don’t have trouble with simple English. “This generation shall not pass, till all these things be done”, is simple English. You’re the one who’s telling us it doesn’t mean what it says.

Jesus didn’t mention Israel in simple English or Greek or Aramaic or any other language. He’s speaking in simple terms to (let’s face it) simple people. You only complicate his simple words because you need a way to explain why his prophesy didn’t come true.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:11   #87
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So let me get this straight.

You believe that that passage is saying that the people of Israel will pass away BEFORE all the things He talked about come true?
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Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:14   #88
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No it isn't. Faith is belief in something for which you have no proof. It is accepting something as true with no proof...

In other words it's being a sucker.
Being that you have no faith, how can you make a statement like that? You have no idea what you're talking about. You can't see or measure it, so you assume it doesn't exist. You are the closed minded one.
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Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.

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Old 12-01-2012, 09:30   #89
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muscogee
Answer:Molly:
Yes, it is obvious. He said it because people even then wanted to know when the end would come. IMHO we should worry more about our own lives and how we are living. Instead of the end times, because we could walk in front of a buss and it would be the end of our life on this earth.


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Trouble. Christians always look at the trouble in the world as an indication that God will one day put an end to trouble and fix everything. They are pacific in how God will fix it.

The problem is that all good and all trouble has come at the hand of mankind. God has never stepped in to fix the world. It has always taken an act of mankind. Often it is men and women of faith that step in an make the changes or effect "better times". I see faith as a good thing if it causes people to act for a better world. It is delusional to think that God is going to do anything. It is wholly your and my responsibility to bring a "better things".
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:03   #90
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So let me get this straight.

You believe that that passage is saying that the people of Israel will pass away BEFORE all the things He talked about come true?
The passage says nothing abut Israel.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:46   #91
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It says people, tribe, nation. That means Israel by default.

And once again, you guys are purposefully being ignorant to push your faithless agenda.
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Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:57   #92
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Posted by Brasso:
It says people, tribe, nation.
Show us where anyone other than you says so.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:33   #93
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I've shown you several times already. You simply don't want to acknowledge it. You seem to prefer to believe that the Apostles spoke and wrote in Victorian English.
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Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.

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Old 12-01-2012, 12:58   #94
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Posted by Brasso:
I've shown you several times already.
No, you've posted quotes that you interpret as equating “generation” with “Israel”. It’s just your interpretation, your opinion. It’s not even an argument from authority. Without something to back it up, your opinion means diddly-squat.
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Old 12-01-2012, 13:03   #95
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I've posted from the Aramaic, the oldest manuscripts in existence. I've posted definitions from Strong's Concordance.

You are the one who continues to assert I made it all up. You are wrong. That you continue to assert something that is patently false, in the face of evidence to the contrary means you are a childish nitwit who got your feelings hurt and doesn't want to admit they're wrong.

Either that or you're a troll.
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Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.
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Old 12-01-2012, 14:08   #96
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Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
Being that you have no faith, how can you make a statement like that? You have no idea what you're talking about. You can't see or measure it, so you assume it doesn't exist. You are the closed minded one.
You don't have to be schizophrenic to properly diagnose the disorder. You have deluded yourself into believing a fairytale. While not at the extreme of the scale of pschological disorders, it's quite easy to understand what you are doing. We get it, life is hard and unfair and the certainty of death can be terrifying. We understand how it can be comforting to adopt a worldview that denies these realities, but that doesn't make it any less false.
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Old 12-01-2012, 14:20   #97
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Being that you have no faith, how can you make a statement like that? You have no idea what you're talking about. You can't see or measure it, so you assume it doesn't exist. You are the closed minded one.
You're talking in circles. If faith weighed something... your faith might weigh a thousand tons because you have so much faith. But faith is accepting something as true for which you have no proof. I don't need to share your faith. I know you have no proof for that which you have faith in.

Faith is the opposite of knowledge. And Faith is proof of nothing other than man's ability to believe in absurd delusions in the face of real evidence to the contrary.
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Old 12-01-2012, 14:25   #98
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Posted by Brasso:
I've posted from the Aramaic, the oldest manuscripts in existence. I've posted definitions from Strong's Concordance.
If you’re referring to your posts #8 and 24, those quotes contain no connection whatsoever to Jesus’ statement. You may want there to be some connection, but I suspect the connection is only in your imagination.

Why you bothered to include:

Jer 31:37 Thus said יהוה, “If the heavens above could be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I would also cast off all the seed of Yisra’ĕl for all that they have done,” declares יהוה.
Jer 31:38 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “that the city shall be built for יהוה from the Tower of Ḥanan’ĕl to the Corner Gate.
Jer 31:39 “And the measuring line shall again extend straight ahead to the hill Garĕḇ, then it shall turn toward Goʽah.
Jer 31:40 “And all the valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the wadi Qiḏron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, is to be set-apart to יהוה. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down any more forever
.”

is beyond my comprehension. How does that relate to “generation” = “tribe, people or age” in the NT context we're discussing?
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Old 12-01-2012, 16:52   #99
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Originally Posted by NMG26 View Post
Trouble. Christians always look at the trouble in the world as an indication that God will one day put an end to trouble and fix everything. They are pacific in how God will fix it.

The problem is that all good and all trouble has come at the hand of mankind. God has never stepped in to fix the world. It has always taken an act of mankind. Often it is men and women of faith that step in an make the changes or effect "better times". I see faith as a good thing if it causes people to act for a better world. It is delusional to think that God is going to do anything. It is wholly your and my responsibility to bring a "better things".
According to the Bible God stepped in when Jesus died on the cross. If you disconnect from the Bible you are cutting yourself loose from your anchor to drift and end up wrecked.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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Old 12-01-2012, 20:34   #100
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If you’re referring to your posts #8 and 24, those quotes contain no connection whatsoever to Jesus’ statement. You may want there to be some connection, but I suspect the connection is only in your imagination.
From Strong's Concordance:

G1074
Mar 13:30 VerilyG281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 thatG3754 thisG3778 generationG1074 shall notG3364 pass,G3928 tillG3360 allG3956 these thingsG5023 be done.G1096

G1074
γενεά
genea
ghen-eh-ah'
From (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age, generation, nation, time.



One of the meanings of genea is nation. This is the same meaning as tribe. The Aramaic says tribe and is much older than the Greek text that the english translators wrote as generation. In fact the Lamsa translation of the Aramaic says nation. If you don't believe me do a search for "Aramaic Pesh-ita". It's very easy to find and read.

I'm not going to post this again. Either you can read, and understand what I just posted, or you can't. But if you continue to claim Im making it up then you are a liar.
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Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.

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