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Old 11-25-2012, 19:32   #1
edtf
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New PTT & PTC guidelines

Got this from PPF and I know this has made it around via Facebook and e-mail might as well share it here with this group as added info for shooters/gun owners

http://www.pinoy1911.net/forum/viewt...=32167&start=0

During the PNOY cup sa Armscor pinatawag ng FEO ang mga heads ng mga gun club and announced the following:

On FA License:
- All expired licenses can be renewed on or before December 31, 2012

On PTT:
- If you are a gun club member only but not a member of PPSA/IDPA/PNSA as indorsed by your gun club president then your PTT would only be good for 1 month and only 1 range will be indicated which will be the home range of your gun club.

- If you are a gun club member and also a member of PPSA/IDPA/PNSA then your PTT will indicate "All PNP accredited firing ranges" and the PTT is valid for 3 months. However you are required to attend monthly 1 clubshoot and 1 sanction match. The PNP will verify whether you are an active competitor from the match records and if you failed to comply in joining sanction matches then your next PTT will be only effective for a month and limited in number of ranges.

- FEO inspectors will visit accredited firing ranges randomly and will conduct a surprise inspection on the facilities as well as the shooters therein to check whether their FA are licensed and have the appropriate PTT (take note I mentioned only PTT not including PTCFOR which I will tell the issue later)

- If you have the above PTTs but used your FA in a firing range not accredited by the PNP then your FA can be confiscated and license revoked if caught in a checkpoint or by the FEO inspectors

- PTT for HPRs will only be granted if there is a rifle shooting competition and will be effective only for a limited period (as per the discussion in the meeting most likely a day before and after a rifle match only, if you want to practice you will have to personally request a 1 day PTT from the head of the division issuing PTTs and PTCFOR (Col. Reyes aka "Batman") "for practice only" purposes)

- PTTs will only be released every Wednesday of the week

The reason daw sa paghihigpit sa PTT ay dahil lahat ng gunstore na nagbebenta ng baril ay pinapamember na lang sa kahit anong gun club yung bumibili at kumukuha na lang basta basta ng PTT kahit hindi naman active sa range dahil ang origin daw ng PTT ay MOA daw ng PPSA with FEO para sa mga active shooters lang :roll: :roll: :roll:

On PTCFOR:
- FA with PTCFOR cannot be used in the firing ranges due to the PNP's current interpretation (by Col. Reyes) that FA covered under a PTCFOR should be concealed and cased at all times and that since a firing range is a "public place" then exposing the FA with PTCFOR is now a violation of the rules governing PTCFOR as indicated in the back of the permit. (This interpretation is now being questioned by some lawyers and the PNP has relented that they will study again this position)

During the meeting maraming tanong ang mga gun club heads but medyo tempered lang dahil sa fear na mapaginitan ng FEO at baka di maisyuhan ng mga permit o madelay ang pagisyu sa gun club. Ang nakakatuwa sa lahat ng ito humihingi ang ibang heads ng in-writing ng mga bagong rules pero walang binigay ang FEO at sabing as regulator iniimplement lang nila ang mga existing laws, rules and regulations ng firearm possession and permits as they see fit and interpreted by them.

For Range Officer's:
- Only active ROs (meaning yung mga may 18 points and not the maintaining 6 points) ang entitled sa PTT privilege but limiting the number of FAs from 4 to 2.

On Gunsmith's / Gun Repair shops:
- The FEO will conduct random inspection of PNP accredited smith's/shops. Only licensed FAs covered with PTT and PTCFOR should be found in the possession of the smith/shop. If the FA is without license the owner of the shop/smith shall be held liable for illegal possession of firearms and their permit as repair shop will be revoked by the PNP and the FA confiscated. If with license but without PTT and PTCFOR the shop/smith will be subject to administrative liability under permit rules of the FEO as well as the licensed owner of the firearm. The FA will then be confiscated and its license revoked by the PNP.

there was also some rather vague/ambiguous discussion regarding changing of barrels and calibers of rifles/pistols that will subject the owner of the FA with administrative and criminal liability under FA laws and regulations but was not discussed in depth. (Tago niyo na mga LWD/KKM barrels :mrgreen there was also some mention about KPOS/RONI kits as prohibited "modification" but was not touched upon in detail.

When asked if practicing and matches during the gun ban will be allowed thru storage of FAs with the firing ranges the answer was this proposal is not yet approved by the PNP higher ups.

Only the COMELEC (particularly Chairman Brillantes) can grant exemptions on PTCFOR during the elections and this is not for sale as stated by the FEO and any statement that it can be bought is false.
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Old 11-25-2012, 23:04   #2
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Thanks EDTF

Yikes, ang higpit na ah. Pero dapat lang para maiwasan ang abuses at sana applied sa lahat walang palakasan at palusot.

cough Llamas cough
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:48   #3
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What appears to be a gray area and one that defies logic is with regards to the rule of not being able to fire your gun in a range if you have a PTCFOR and not a PTT.

Why it defies logic is because if you are qualified to have a PTCFOR, then should it not follow that you must practice to be proficient. How do you achieve proficiency? It is when you are able to practice in a controlled environment such as a shooting range. So why cant you fire your gun in a shooting range then?

So if it happens that apart from needing a PTCFOR for protection, you are also enjoying the shooting sports, then it suggests that you now need 2 permits for 1 gun, assuming you compete with it as well.

I can see why the PNP is doing this. It is to identify which are legitimate PTCFOR holders for the purpose of self defense and which are actually for sports only.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:01   #4
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I have always wondered why cant they issue PTT's as long as 1 year or at least 6 months and what is the rationale for a 1 month or even a 1 day PTT.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:33   #5
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The guidelines are bordering on illogical thinking of the PNP. Being strict is one thing but it is crazy to come up with new guidelines. It is always a question of implementation and not additional guidelines. I guess this is what happens when we have no clear cut laws on firearms. It comes out that the PNP is the one interpreting the law. Haaay it will end up all our guns will be locked away at our homes and there will be a lot more irresponsible gun owners and lots of outlaws who will take advantage of knowing people are unarmed
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:46   #6
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Methinks the PNP top brass is testing the waters.

Kapag OK kay PNoy at walang pumalag then it's OK to implement.

Try muna nila sa badlands of Mindanao.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:50   #7
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They are starting implementation na. There are some shooters who reported additional requirements for ptt na

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Old 11-26-2012, 04:59   #8
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ayos!

now i will actually be truthful when i say i NEED to attend this or that match.

on the PTCFOR ruling, medyo pilosopo but technically, they are correct. but then they will also have to address the issue of the gun momentarily coming into view every time one surrenders it sa bank. the lawyers will probably fix this, just a matter of adding or subtracting words here and there.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:39   #9
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Don't forget about the can't shoot the firearm even if it is locked or stored at the gun club / shooting range.

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Old 11-26-2012, 11:08   #10
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Again, the people at FEO defies logic... How come they always pick on the individual legal firearms owner? Why not go after the private armed groups out there or better yet, enforce the law in Central Mindanao...
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Old 11-26-2012, 14:09   #11
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oh that's easy cebuboy...

because one is easy and the other one is difficult.

they move like electrons, taking the path of least resistance.

our job is to create resistance (if for no other reason but to get them to do the necessary yet difficult things), still mulling on how exactly. suggestions welcome.
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Old 11-27-2012, 00:04   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMMA97 View Post
Methinks the PNP top brass is testing the waters.

Kapag OK kay PNoy at walang pumalag then it's OK to implement.

Try muna nila sa badlands of Mindanao.
Will have to disagree on this since every region should be in theory have equal rights.
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Old 11-27-2012, 00:12   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randr1979 View Post
now i will actually be truthful when i say i NEED to attend this or that match.

on the PTCFOR ruling, medyo pilosopo but technically, they are correct. but then they will also have to address the issue of the gun momentarily coming into view every time one surrenders it sa bank. the lawyers will probably fix this, just a matter of adding or subtracting words here and there.
I unfortunately cannot see the logic on the PTCFOR here. How can they be correct. A PTCFOR is for you to carry a firearm for self defense. How can it be then illegal for your firearm to be seen by the public when in use. Note - when in use is different from brandishing and waving it. When it is in use, then you obviously be firing the gun and if it was used for self defense, then arguably you broke the law according to their definition since it was seen in public.

Now lets go to the point of responsible carry. An individual with a PTCFOR must be responsible to the point of achieving a certain proficiency and the only way to achieve this is practicing live fire on range.

Ok from here on it is a fine line between joining competitions and practicing, admittedly but again, one's circumstances could be both - that you are a shooting sportsperson and at the same time have a need for carrying one for self defense.

This is now splitting hairs which is what the PNP is trying to do, but the line is in the sand...
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Old 11-27-2012, 00:19   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randr1979 View Post
because one is easy and the other one is difficult.

they move like electrons, taking the path of least resistance.

our job is to create resistance (if for no other reason but to get them to do the necessary yet difficult things), still mulling on how exactly. suggestions welcome.
Every gun owner must support an organisation that is dedicated to lobby well within the ranks of FED. This is to keep them in check and if possible proactively make sound recommendations.

Wishful thinking here.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:45   #15
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Agree with most of you, parang gumagawa ng sariling interpretasyon ang PNP FED. Ang problema nga natin kasi ang daming grey areas, you know Pinoys hangga't makakalusot lulusot. Ang problema dito hindi naman lisensyadong baril ang nasasangkot sa krimen. Mas lalo nilang iniipit ang responsible gun owners sa halip na habulin ang loose firearms na sangkot lagi sa krimen.

Time to reactivate the PRO GUN group.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:16   #16
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This new so called policy is a product of a person who assumes to "know-all".

Before a policy is drafted by "competent" authority, it is prudent that the "competent" authority consults all stakeholders involved before coming up with a policy.

Without consultation from the stakeholders, their "carefully" crafted policy would be full of holes and would be subject of ridicule by the stakeholders. The person who authored that policy will be subjecting himself to shame and will forever be remembered as the person who made a fool of himself, well beyond his retirement.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:46   #17
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Don't worry makapal balat nila :D

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Old 11-27-2012, 18:33   #18
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How could such blatant display of stupidity be allowable?


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Old 11-27-2012, 20:43   #19
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Because they can. Unlike our brethren in the States, we don't have a Second Amendment and thus even the possession of a firearm is a privilege, not a right, and can be withdrawn or restricted any time. To think the President himself is a shooter.

Also, perhaps somebody was asleep in his Logic class...

There's already a hue and cry about this and the PNP is rethinking it. They better.

I read in PPF that Reyes is a member of Class `84 of the PMA, and said class has Mar Roxas as an adopted member.
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Old 11-27-2012, 22:21   #20
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we need solid stats that mga illogical policies nila dont work in reducing crime
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