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Old 12-05-2012, 00:48   #141
bucksnort1959
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
You're all over the place.




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Just answering questions posed to me honestly. What up homes?
answer the question on where you'd interpret my state's law on intox and weapons. It's just you opinion, not anything that would hold before a jury or anything since you aren't a lawyer and don't have a whole lot of exp. testifying in these matters
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Old 12-05-2012, 00:54   #142
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Just answering questions posed to me honestly. What up homes?
answer the question on where you'd interpret my state's law on intox and weapons. It's just you opinion, not anything that would hold before a jury or anything since you aren't a lawyer and don't have a whole lot of exp. testifying in these matters
Why would I interpret another states laws? Only the Ohio Revised code matters to me.

You're right. I don't have a whole lot of experience testifying in OVI trials but lawyers do.


You were intoxicated with a weapon. Got caught. How's that working out for ya ?


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Old 12-05-2012, 00:55   #143
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
It's just you opinion, not anything that would hold before a jury or anything since you aren't a lawyer and don't have a whole lot of exp. testifying in these matters
Seriously?

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Old 12-05-2012, 01:00   #144
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I'd really like to see a copy of your arrest report.


You were arrested. With due cause. I don't see where anything in your story leads to a civil rights lawsuit.




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Old 12-05-2012, 01:18   #145
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I amazed at all the posts from cops on the legality of items depicted. I didn't realize you guys also got law degrees. I always assumed you were just evidence gathers.
Any real,bar lawyer want to chime in. Or do they prefer a different kind of weapon than this forum?
As I suspected, little to no respect for LE. Police Officers go through extensive arrest, search and seizure training so we don't violate people's rights and don't get evidence thrown out, so yeah, we do know the law.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:37   #146
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post


You were intoxicated with a weapon. Got caught. How's that working out for ya ?



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I wasn't arrested in Ohio so what?
You're making a statement or opinion based on what?
My posting of the jury instructions are very clear.
What's so hard about telling me your interpretation of what it means?
You don't have to be a lawyer, we're all jurists in the legal system
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:43   #147
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As I suspected, little to no respect for LE. Police Officers go through extensive arrest, search and seizure training so we don't violate people's rights and don't get evidence thrown out, so yeah, we do know the law.
Good for you. I'm sure you're in the percentage that is made out for a peace officer. Then there's the % that slide along.
What's your interpretation of the jury instructs?
and as to whether you've ever consumed 4 hours before operating.
It's all right
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:25   #148
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Level of intoxication is hard to quantify, especially for those who don't explain it regularly. Sure you have BAC, SFSTs, and the totality of the circumstance.

Some questions to consider. How buzzed should a surgeon be while cutting you open? How about the pilot flying your family on vacation? And what about your childrens teachers or school bus drivers? I would same that same level applies to handling a firearm.

My thoughts are these. If your going out and know that you plan on drinking leave the gun. If you really feel that gun is necessary, then skip the drinks....you gotta be on your A game for combat. Its kind of scary that you want to debate this at all.

Its a weapon, not a drinking buddy.

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Old 12-05-2012, 06:39   #149
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Just answering questions posed to me honestly.
No, you are not. You have not given a direct answer to any question put to you.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:42   #150
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Putting aside the incident details, assuming it actually happened. You do understand that, like it or not, you represent gun owners. Throughout this thread (even starting with the original post/title), you've gone out of your way to be as abrasive and confrontational to LE as possible. Has it ever dawned on you that perhaps your attitude may be contributing to the terse responses here and possibly in the incident itself? Can you appreciate the job that these people in LE do? Just look in threads in the cop section. Aren't you tired of seeing officer after officer posted as another fallen hero? I am not a LEO, never have been. I know some good people who are and have heard the stories of the daily barrage of crap that they deal with. To see someone like you who,whether I like or not, represents gun owners and interacts with LEOs in the manner that you do...well, I find it disgusting.

If an officer behaved poorly, sure file a complaint and take it up with his superiors. However you've chosen to take it much further. Aside from apparently seeking financial compensation, you're hell bent on attacking an entire profession. It's very unfortunate that you've chosen the tact for dealing with the situation. Unfortunately for the rest of us that work hard at portraying a positive image of responsible gun owners,actions like yours tend to nullify a great deal of positive actions of others. Perhaps someday you'll mature to the point where you can see how disgraceful you've behaved throughout the ordeal.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:00   #151
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Originally Posted by DustyJacket View Post
Well? Was it concealed? Or was it next to you?
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
It was both
Sorry but I am still curious as to the status of the gun. I am guessing perhaps concealed in a case and the case was next to you. But that is a guess.

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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
....
As to finding a roach, it ties into illegal search and seizure in a scenario.
If you were a cop and this happened to your bud, what would you advise?
I would tell him not to use marijuana or at least when he isn't high clean all the residue and remains out of is car.


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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I amazed at all the posts from cops on the legality of items depicted. I didn't realize you guys also got law degrees. I always assumed you were just evidence gathers.
Any real,bar lawyer want to chime in. Or do they prefer a different kind of weapon than this forum?
Search and seizure can be fairly tricky. Sometimes appeals courts disagree with decision by judges in lower courts. Other times it can be fairly straight forward and some/many officers have a fair amount of experience in determining what evidence will be allowed or probably will be allowed. Out of curiosity has the search been declared illegal by a court or by your attorney?
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:04   #152
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Unanswered questions and inquiries:
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Originally Posted by SgtScott31 View Post
"Experimental no cause" checkpoints? Feel free to provide a source to that claim as well (i.e. news story, court opinion).
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Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
What kind of "black marks?"
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Originally Posted by md2lgyk View Post
Were any field sobriety tests performed? Where I worked as an LEO, that was always the first step. Or a breathalyzer (but we didn't all have one).
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Originally Posted by IGotIt View Post
Back to the topic; OP what is an "experimental no cause check point?
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I'm curious about the outcome of the criminal charges(DUI, Possession of a firearm while intoxicated)? Were you found guilty? Innocent? Not charged?
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Originally Posted by RussP View Post
After a sleepless night tending to your child, you worked a long day. You and a buddy go out to get something to eat and a couple of drinks, on with your meal, one just before leaving. You are tired and relaxed after the meal and drinks.

A couple miles from the restaurant, not paying attention to your speed, you are stopped for speeding. The Milwaukee PD officer notices alcohol on your breath. He asks if you have any firearms. You say yes. He asks if it is loaded. You respond in some manner that it is.

The officer now has someone he believes is impaired by alcohol in possession of a firearm.

He, and perhaps a second officer by now, remove you from the car, handcuff you, remove your firearm and place you in the backseat of a police car.

They then commence a search incident to your arrest.

After some period of time they take you in and blood is drawn. That reveals you have a BAC of .012. How long after being stop did they draw blood?

Is that pretty close to what happened so far?

You say, "...only .012, well under .08." A couple of drinks may not affect you under normal circumstances. However, you had little sleep the night before and had a long workday. Your body's alcohol tolerance was probably lower than it would be were you rested.

Did the arresting officer describe your appearance when he stopped you in his report? Your face may have reflected that lack of sleep/couple of drinks combination. Did they process you, take your picture? That would be interesting to see.

Now, it is also interesting that you threw in the, "...find a roach your kid's friend dropped the night before when your kid had the car." Is that a fact in your story, or did you just throw that in to spice things up?

You said, "...my stuff was "stolen" from my possession..." Was it returned to you when you were released?

Were you even charged with anything other than speeding?

There are other conclusions that may be drawn from your posts, but that can wait.

Looking forward to your response.
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He was a witness, not an actor.

Is that correct, bucksnort?
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Well? Was it concealed? Or was it next to you?
Let me rephrase the question: Were you carrying the firearm in a holster on your person?

How about we start with those unanswered items... To go back and view the posts in context, click on the small blue box following the poster's name.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:20   #153
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Throughout this thread (even starting with the title)...
Not his title... I created the title from the words in his original post when I moved it to its own thread.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:22   #154
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Good for you. I'm sure you're in the percentage that is made out for a peace officer. Then there's the % that slide along.
How would you quantify those percentages?
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:34   #155
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Not his title... I created the title from the words in his original post when I moved it to its own thread.
Got it...so even starting with his original post....my point is still valid, IMO

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Old 12-05-2012, 08:10   #156
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
ok
Interpret this

Quote:
Quote:
However, it is a class A misdemeanor (punishable by 9 months jail and/or $10,000 fine) for anyone to go armed with a firearm while under the influence of an intoxicant. . “Under the Influence‖ has been defined as materially impairing the ability to handle a firearm which is further explained as consuming ―an amount of alcohol to cause the person to be less able to exercise clear judgment and steady hand necessary to handle a firearm.‖
At what point as an agent of the state, would you determine an individual to be in violation?
The part of your post I put into the box that you identify as jury instructions, is the the totality of the instructions?

You want an interpretation. It isn't the jurors' job to interpret the law. Their job is to weigh the facts of the case as presented against the law. If those facts do not support penalizing the defendant, defendant goes home acquitted. We do not have all the facts. We have your interpretation of the facts.

To answer to your question, "At what point ... would you determine an individual to be in violation?", a law enforcement officer would require more information which you have not provided, even though asked to provide.

In his report, how did the officer describe your demeanor, physical characteristics, speech, eyes, movement? Were you argumentative? What did you say to the officer(s)?

The answer is, I guess, at the point you convinced them by actions, words, appearance, you were suspected, suspected of being in violation.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:10   #157
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Got it...so even starting with his original post....my point is still valid, IMO

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Absolutely!!!
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:37   #158
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and as to whether you've ever consumed 4 hours before operating.
What are you asking?

Are you implying it was 4 hours between when you had the last drink and when you were stopped?
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:38   #159
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Guess you didn't see that the events as depicted weren't applicable completely in my case. Not sure if it was a slip in comprehension as other posters have admitted.
Yes, I saw your "disclaimer."
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
This is not anywhere what I experienced.
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
It was in a response to some guy in Beer City to imagine a possible scenario he might be familiar with...
What in your response to him is a true fact of your arrest?
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
As to finding a roach, it ties into illegal search and seizure in a scenario.
So that fact in your comment is totally fictitious?
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If you were a cop and this happened to your bud, what would you advise?
Tell us the absolute truth of the event with supporting police reports and dash cam video, you know, "the rest of the story", and I'll tell you know what I would say.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:48   #160
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
just warming up. Kicking back and popped a brew. I have to work during the day to support the rest of you slackers
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
After 1 beer I think I've reached my limit and going to bed so I can do it all over tomorrow
I bet that officer agrees!

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Bruce, that was an, "I pay youse coppers' salaries," comment...only said with a Wisconsin accent.

Hey! What accent?!

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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
It was both
True, in WI even open carrying, once in a vehicle, is defined as concealed. This is why before we had CCW, you couldn't carry in a vehicle. Had to unload and store the firearm.

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Did you also get a law degree or did you just do the 60 credit thing to get in?
2 different things. 60 credits at an accredited college to be a cop, not a lawyer. Don't need a law degree to be a cop, either.

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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
ok
Interpret this

However, it is a class A misdemeanor (punishable by 9 months jail and/or $10,000 fine) for anyone to go armed with a firearm while under the influence of an intoxicant. . “Under the Influence‖ has been defined as materially impairing the ability to handle a firearm which is further explained as consuming ―an amount of alcohol to cause the person to be less able to exercise clear judgment and steady hand necessary to handle a firearm.‖

At what point as an agent of the state, would you determine an individual to be in violation?

Hilljack?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HillJack
Not here. sorry of where you live that you have to deal with peeps like that.
I was in Cinncy once, Tucky on 75 in Sept. of this year. Have no real need to revisit the area.
"Under the influence" doesn't mean .08 it means each individual's ability to maintain clear judgement. For some, that could be .01 (if 1 beer is your limit as you stated earlier, this could be the case). Also, "1 beer" is vague. Was it a 12oz? One of those 20oz cans (or whatever they are)? A 40? All can be construed as "one beer" since it's one container, but obviously there's a difference.

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Sorry but I am still curious as to the status of the gun. I am guessing perhaps concealed in a case and the case was next to you. But that is a guess.
In WI, a firearm in a vehicle is considered concealed, whether it's in plain sight or not.


OP, I'm in SE WI. I must have missed whether you said this was in Milwaukee vs. Waukesha (saw both mentioned). What was the agency?

ETA: OP never said where this happened. I'm curious as to where.
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