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Old 12-20-2012, 10:08   #81
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And I think that is fine, but I'm a dentist, not a theologian.
You throw around a lot of theology for a dentist!

So you just embrace what you have been told is the truth, from the faction that gave it to you.

I'm a machinist. My faith is important to me because it defines me. My world view. The Bible says to"work out your own salvation". I have been doing that for 40 years one way or another. Faith changes as we get new information. I grew. I grew right out of Christianity, but it is my biggest influence. Spiritually I am still quite Pauline. I still look for faith, hope, and love as part of my daily life.

Have you never found a doctrine that you believed to be false? That is part of growing up.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:30   #82
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You throw around a lot of theology for a dentist!

Sorry you think I "throw"

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So you just embrace what you have been told is the truth, from the faction that gave it to you.
I study the Bible, memorize verses weekly, and teach one small group and I am the back-up for another. So no, I don't just "embrace" what I have been told, I ask hard questions and seek answers.



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Have you never found a doctrine that you believed to be false? That is part of growing up.
That goes back to the previous question. Yes there are things that are hard to reconcile. As I have said before, I am not so presumptuous to believe I have the most superior knowledge in the universe (as some here do), therefore I believe there are things that I cannot understand. However, when I try to discuss issues with some of the atheists, they are derogatory, untruthful and antagonistic. I prefer to try to be like Christ, not like them. I try to continue to grow...............
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:48   #83
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I prefer to try to be like Christ, not like them. I try to continue to grow...............

Very good.

The two loudest that you are debating with are former Christians. They grew out of it. They had to change their beliefs. They had to challenge the doctrine that they had been fed.

Many people don't do this. They "die in their sins". My mom is a Christian and will die that way. Nothing at all wrong with it. For the most part people stay in the faith that they have been given. My sister is still in the fundamentalist Baptist church that we grew up in. I went to see her daughter get married there last year.

Christians are not the enemy. Doctrine is. When doctrine is unchallenged, and made to be evil if it is challenged, there is a problem. An enemy of progress and growth.

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Old 12-20-2012, 11:09   #84
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Very good.

The two loudest that you are debating with are former Christians. They grew out of it. They had to change their beliefs. They had to challenge the doctrine that they had been fed.

Many people don't do this. They "die in their sins". My mom is a Christian and will die that way. Nothing at all wrong with it. For the most part people stay in the faith that they have been given. My sister is still in the fundamentalist Baptist church that we grew up in. I went to see her daughter get married there last year.

Christians are not the enemy. Doctrine is. When doctrine is unchallenged, and made to be evil if it is challenged, there is a problem. An enemy of progress and growth.

.
So are you now atheist?
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:24   #85
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So are you now atheist?
I choose to be theist. I still find worth in a personal relationship with God. As far as debate goes, I find the atheists to have a slight edge and often they get the win.

If you ever grow out of Christianity you will have scars, a constant reminder of the past. That is how I know about the damage to the psyche of the believer.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:27   #86
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I choose to be theist.
I had you pegged for more of a deist?
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:28   #87
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There you go again. World wide floods, talking snakes, 900 year old men, a virgin birth, coming back from the dead, and so on, are all myths until proven otherwise.
You don't see worldwide environmental holocausts?
Don't watch much television,huh? It can appear that a snake can talk.
900 yr old man, seen some that looked like it.
Virgin birth. Ever heard of artificial insemination?
Coming back from the dead. Really,lol, happens all the time.

These are not myths, I have just proven they are not. How God did it, couldn't tell you................
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:31   #88
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You don't see worldwide environmental holocausts?
None that defy natural explanation. The ones described in the bible are clearly not of the garden variety (pun intended).
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:46   #89
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I had you pegged for more of a deist?
"Deism is a theological position concerning the relationship between "the Creator" and the natural world."-Wikipedia

Sure. I think that deists are theists. I'm just using a broad term because I don't have God "pegged" yet(or anymore).
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:50   #90
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I choose to be theist. I still find worth in a personal relationship with God. As far as debate goes, I find the atheists to have a slight edge and often they get the win.

If you ever grow out of Christianity you will have scars, a constant reminder of the past. That is how I know about the damage to the psyche of the believer.
I only witness to what I've seen and what I know, your belief is your responsibility. I'm here to answer anything I can. I do take offense to those who lie or falsely quote the Bible. Nor do I care for someone who calls me "stupid" for my experiences with God. I won't "grow" out of Christianity, I pray it "grows" within me. Even if there is no God, I'm a better person for following the teachings of Christ........... DOC
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:46   #91
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I enjoy my time of prayer, actually, I don't pray enough. Brainwashing? No, a time to have fellowship with the Lord. I find it comforting...........
Like a drug addict finds drugs comforting.
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Old 12-20-2012, 13:16   #92
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Like a drug addict finds drugs comforting.
You are so bitter, not a good representative for atheism.
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Old 12-20-2012, 13:18   #93
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It can appear that a snake can talk.
So Genesis is wrong. The snake just appeared to talk. That makes sense but it's not what Genesis says.

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Virgin birth. Ever heard of artificial insemination?
It could happen. but that would meant that Jesus wasn't really the son of God. If you're saying he was the results of failed birth control, that makes sense too.

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Coming back from the dead. Really,lol, happens all the time.
Actually, no. At the time of Jesus it was difficult to know who was dead and who was comatose. Was Jesus comatose or dead for three days? Is it possible that the stuff they gave him to drink on the cross was a powerful drug that would keep him out for three days?

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These are not myths, I have just proven they are not. How God did it, couldn't tell you................
Do you read very much fiction? Good fiction can really draw you in. Let me suggest World War Z. While reading it I found myself thinking about what I needed to do to prepare for the Zombie Apocalypse ever though I knew it was just fiction. I would have to stop and tell myself that I really didn't need a sword because the Zombies really weren't coming. Not ever. The Bible is the same way. The authors, the Church, the churches, and the governments of the last 1900 years have had centuries to tweak it. It can really draw the reader in. However, it's not real, anymore than the Zombie Apocalypse is real. Neither Jesus or the other zombies are coming.
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Old 12-20-2012, 13:20   #94
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You are so bitter, not a good representative for atheism.
Non sequitur. and ad hominem. Two logical fallacies in the same sentence.

I was high on Jesus for many years. I was bitter then. Not now.
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Old 12-20-2012, 13:25   #95
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None that defy natural explanation. The ones described in the bible are clearly not of the garden variety (pun intended).
And that proves that these things occur............. thank you.

And the recent tsunami's were "garden variety"?
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Old 12-20-2012, 13:31   #96
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Non sequitur. and ad hominem. Two logical fallacies in the same sentence.

I was high on Jesus for many years. I was bitter then. Not now.
Regardless the adjective, you don't seem to be a caring, compassionate person. What happened?
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Old 12-20-2012, 13:37   #97
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So Genesis is wrong. The snake just appeared to talk. That makes sense but it's not what Genesis says.

It could happen. but that would meant that Jesus wasn't really the son of God. If you're saying he was the results of failed birth control, that makes sense too.

Actually, no. At the time of Jesus it was difficult to know who was dead and who was comatose. Was Jesus comatose or dead for three days? Is it possible that the stuff they gave him to drink on the cross was a powerful drug that would keep him out for three days?



Do you read very much fiction? Good fiction can really draw you in. Let me suggest World War Z. While reading it I found myself thinking about what I needed to do to prepare for the Zombie Apocalypse ever though I knew it was just fiction. I would have to stop and tell myself that I really didn't need a sword because the Zombies really weren't coming. Not ever. The Bible is the same way. The authors, the Church, the churches, and the governments of the last 1900 years have had centuries to tweak it. It can really draw the reader in. However, it's not real, anymore than the Zombie Apocalypse is real. Neither Jesus or the other zombies are coming.
You missed the point of the exercise, but then again with your history, I suppose you know that................
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Old 12-20-2012, 13:38   #98
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Are you guys PM ing one another? I love it when people bond,lol
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Old 12-20-2012, 13:58   #99
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And that proves that these things occur............. thank you.

And the recent tsunami's were "garden variety"?
The Indian Ocean and Japanese tsunamis were both caused by entirely explainable events (fault movement at the ocean floor). There is no natural explanation for a global flood. Where did all the extra water come from? Again, the events described in the bible could not have occured through natural physical means.

Are you suggesting that these events were much more local and explainable in nature and that the first hand accounts are simply exaggerated? If so then wouldn't a more logical conclusion be that primitive people mistook completely natural events as "god's will" and that they were not actually supernatural at all?
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:08   #100
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You missed the point of the exercise, but then again with your history, I suppose you know that................
When you keep changing the subject and resorting to personal attacks, you admit that you have nothing else to offer and have lost the argument. When you address the issues I have raised rather than making up lies about me and attacking me personally, I'll respond. Until then, you're a waste of time.
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