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Old 12-05-2012, 22:15   #26
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Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
Up until yesterday I was believing along GOP party lines about how a tax increase on the upper 2% or "job creators" would negatively affect the economy. Then my daughter in law shared with me this video that explains that the middle class are the real job creators, not the rich. Anyone care to school me on why this is right or wrong, and if this is not the reason why Republicans are against raising taxes on the top 2%, then why?

http://www.athenstalks.com/rich-are-...ck-hanauer-ted
Its as simple as this: We are, or should be a capitalist system.

The top 2% are (obviously) good at aggregating CAPITAL on a scale that can fund investments in factories and storefronts that give people JOBS. They are also efficient investors and users of that capital, more so than the government that would poach that money to little effect…


The top 10% in this country provide 70% of the government's revenue. The rich ARE paying their fare share, and the share of quite a few people who are paying NOTHING. So, how much is enough, really?

If Obama got his way and raised the rates to where he wanted, the total extra take from the wealthiest folks would run the government for 8 days, and at the same time drain it from the private sector where it would actually do some good.

We do not have a revenue problem. We have a SPENDING problem. Reid pelosi and Obama squandered trillions, now they want to confiscate more to pay for their waste. Pound sand I say.
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Old 12-05-2012, 22:33   #27
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Here's some revisionist history for you: This week's 4 most ridiculous, head-scratching poll results : https://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAowsP0E/theweekcom/CAIiEEL07zrGT1VzJesjo0fgqNAqFAgEKg0IACoGCAowsP0EMIAlMJpk/this_weeks_4_most_ridiculous_head_scratc


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Old 12-05-2012, 22:43   #28
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Interesting, he claims to want to give Mortgage and student Loan debt relief by just cancelling them, and then says the way to handle debt is to just ignore it.

What a financial genius.
Can you say "dictator wannabe"?
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Old 12-05-2012, 22:53   #29
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So is he a right wing fascist or a left wing communist? Which one? Come one, just pick one? Or does it depend on your own clueless wonderment of your leaders.

Everything he's done can be found in Mao's Little Red Book.
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Old 12-05-2012, 23:12   #30
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Its as simple as this: We are, or should be a capitalist system.
Capitalism isn't a system. It is simply men engaging freely in commerce.
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Old 12-05-2012, 23:33   #31
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Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
Up until yesterday I was believing along GOP party lines about how a tax increase on the upper 2% or "job creators" would negatively affect the economy. Then my daughter in law shared with me this video that explains that the middle class are the real job creators, not the rich. Anyone care to school me on why this is right or wrong, and if this is not the reason why Republicans are against raising taxes on the top 2%, then why?

http://www.athenstalks.com/rich-are-...ck-hanauer-ted
Even though Nick Hanauer is spot on you won't get anywhere with that video. I've already tried. The denial is too strong here. His very good points will be ignored by most here in favor of the "the rich are job creators!" mantra that's been programmed into them.
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Old 12-06-2012, 00:28   #32
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he was re elected for four more years of digging the USA into a hole. Maybe some of you idiots that voted for him will vote against him when he wants dictatorship. But I doubt it!
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Old 12-06-2012, 00:39   #33
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Political Issues

Political Issues
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Old 12-06-2012, 00:46   #34
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:13   #35
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Budget conscience Conservative Republicans have been painted as greedy Scrooges, starving school children and throwing grandma over the cliff, for decades. For an entire generation of voters, the mantra has been repeated until it is accepted as truth. The blame for that lies with the voter who either doesn't want to inform themselves or have a political self interest in gaining from a governmental party that promises wealth redistribution.

Clinton's supposed "balanced budget" accomplishment (scoff) is treated as some political high water mark by the Left as masterfully reaching a balance between Liberalism and Conservationism. In truth, it was settled with scorn, blame, and disdain, presenting Conservatives as evil leftovers from the Reagan "age of greed".

Conservatism has not changed. We must, as a nation, live within our financial means. And we have not. To the tune of $16 Trillion dollars. But the Liberal propaganda of vilifying political opponents has been so simple and effective to the disinterested or edacious voting populous, that Liberals have reached their political zenith of power.

America deserves exactly what we majority vote for. Our currency will default and Democrats hope that happens sooner than later. Because, if the money power is defeated, all that is left is reliance on the State.

A Socialist's dream.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:12   #36
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Originally Posted by Gunhaver View Post
Even though Nick Hanauer is spot on you won't get anywhere with that video. I've already tried. The denial is too strong here. His very good points will be ignored by most here in favor of the "the rich are job creators!" mantra that's been programmed into them.
While the video has changed my mind about who the real job creators are, I don't favor raising taxes on anyone, even the top 2%. I am in favor of cutting spending and entitlements. Obama's plan is to spend more and cut less and focus the poor's anger on the rich.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:16   #37
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Political Issues
Yep. If you don't believe this is how they think, ask Ed Asner.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:49   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
Up until yesterday I was believing along GOP party lines about how a tax increase on the upper 2% or "job creators" would negatively affect the economy. Then my daughter in law shared with me this video that explains that the middle class are the real job creators, not the rich. Anyone care to school me on why this is right or wrong, and if this is not the reason why Republicans are against raising taxes on the top 2%, then why?

http://www.athenstalks.com/rich-are-...ck-hanauer-ted

He does have a valid point. However, it's over simplistic. Taxes are pass through. Raising the taxes on the business owners will only increase the cost of products. Increased cost on products without a corresponding increase in wages for everybody (and the tax cut isn't even close to compensating for this), means less products purchased. Less products purchased means less income, but more overhead for the business owner. More overhead for the business owner means less to put back into the company. Less to put back into the company means stagnant or slower growth, which means fewer jobs and or cutbacks on current employment.

It's a vicious cycle that will take months, maybe even years to fully realize. The initial effects will be more layoffs and higher unemployment. Sure the unemployed will be able to survive on unemployment insurance for a time, but look what's already happening now. The unemployment rate is only dropping because people are loosing the insurance. Quite a few have just given up and are simply existing. My mother-in-law is one of these.

Some have gone back to school to go into another career field, but the market is highly competitive. My company is an example of this. The last training class had 75 QUALIFIED applicants for 15 positions. Just to get to those 75 qualified, they had to weed out thousands.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:54   #39
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I really hope no agreement is made and we go over the cliff.

That's one sure way to cut this out of control spending and I'm afraid that might be the only hope left.
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Old 12-06-2012, 14:25   #40
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Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
Up until yesterday I was believing along GOP party lines about how a tax increase on the upper 2% or "job creators" would negatively affect the economy. Then my daughter in law shared with me this video that explains that the middle class are the real job creators, not the rich. Anyone care to school me on why this is right or wrong, and if this is not the reason why Republicans are against raising taxes on the top 2%, then why?

http://www.athenstalks.com/rich-are-...ck-hanauer-ted
As soon as he said "Those who believe that the rich should not pay taxes.." I stopped listening.

The Ignorance of Nick Hanauer's TED Speech
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst...rs-ted-speech/

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Old 12-06-2012, 14:32   #41
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As soon as he said "Those who believe that the rich should not pay taxes.." I stopped listening.
Why don't you actually watch the whole thing and consider what he's saying instead of finding a chicken **** reason to bug out?
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Old 12-06-2012, 14:39   #42
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I never post here. Hell, I never read here...
Welcome to the club!

In response to your issue, all I can say is that he goes around selling his tax-the-rich-to-save-the-country ideas but refuses to negotiate face to face with Congress. From everything I read about the spineless Republicans, he'll get his hike on taxes for the "rich" and won't offer any spending cuts. But I don't think Congress is going to give him the power to raise the debt ceiling on his own.

It doesn't matter. It's all a piss hole in the snow bank. The economy is going into the tank again and the country will be flat out broke in a few years.
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Old 12-06-2012, 15:06   #43
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Why don't you actually watch the whole thing and consider what he's saying instead of finding a chicken **** reason to bug out?
Because he is a dumbass
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Old 12-06-2012, 15:14   #44
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Because he is a dumbass
Hmm, compelling argument you make there. Wonder when the GOP platform of, "Everyone that disagrees with us is a dumbass!" will finally pay off?
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Old 12-06-2012, 15:35   #45
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So is he a right wing fascist or a left wing communist? Which one? Come one, just pick one? Or does it depend on your own clueless wonderment of your leaders.
You seem to have no clue about government vs. economic system and the [possible mixtures of them. I have rarely seen you post about anything you do understand. Couldn't you Google it before posting, at least.

But no, Obama is clearly not a fascist, because fascism involves basing yourr totalitarian state on a shared national heritage. I'll readily admit, Obama is no nationalist or fascist - pretty much the opposite.

More of a democratic socialist - in other words, a Nazi without the patriotic side.
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Old 12-06-2012, 15:45   #46
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Hmm, compelling argument you make there. Wonder when the GOP platform of, "Everyone that disagrees with us is a dumbass!" will finally pay off?
He is not a dumbass because he disagrees. He is a dumbass because he is a dumbass. Even rich people like he is can be ignorant- better to just shut his mouth than to prove it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst...rs-ted-speech/
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Old 12-06-2012, 16:19   #47
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No, he's not stupid. He's a Marxist Communist Ideologue. He is moving precisely along the path he wishes to and it ends with the free-market capitalist system in this country collapsing under the weight of loose socialist spending policy so that people will DEMAND something better... something... fairer...

Keep practicing. Sooner of later, we're going to have to fight. I don't want anyone on MY side that can't shoot.

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Old 12-06-2012, 16:29   #48
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You seem to have no clue about government vs. economic system and the possible mixtures of them....
There is a lot of confusion here regarding economic systems of organization and forms of government.

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Old 12-06-2012, 16:31   #49
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So is he a right wing fascist or a left wing communist? Which one? Come one, just pick one? Or does it depend on your own clueless wonderment of your leaders.
All despotic regimes, be they right or left, are fascistic. Communisim/Collectivism is just one kind of Fascism.

All despots promise equality to the Proletariat in their rise to power and then rob them blind; Obama is no different.
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Old 12-06-2012, 18:13   #50
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All despotic regimes, be they right or left, are fascistic. Communisim/Collectivism is just one kind of Fascism.

All despots promise equality to the Proletariat in their rise to power and then rob them blind; Obama is no different.
I agree with you partially. However if the far right = maximum liberty, how is there a despot?


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