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Old 12-07-2012, 14:16   #26
Geko45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipedreams View Post
"because of clinical depression and anxiety. He said his condition has gotten worse since his father killed himself last year."
I can see where it is likely the two are related. If he was already being hazed for not being religious, can you imagine the comments he got when his father killed himself? I bet he had to endure morbid quips about his heathen father burning in hell or rotting in the ground.
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Old 12-07-2012, 15:07   #27
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
He could have easily done the remaining time.
And you know this how, exactly?

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NOBODY just gives up that close to a college degree, no matter what the hardships are.
You have a penchant for using words like 'nobody', 'never', and 'always'. You obviously have little to no debate or critical thinking skills or experience. Based on your posts, I'm inclined to say you have very little education of any kind, save maybe Sunday School.

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He either quit for a different reason or was asked to leave in lieu of being discharged for a cause.
There you go jumping to conclusions again.

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You can bank on it.
I wouldn't bank on anything you say.
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Old 12-07-2012, 15:18   #28
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Originally Posted by Smacktard View Post
http://news.yahoo.com/cadet-quits-ci...211844765.html

Only one real American at West Point?
.....
No, actually one guy who quit when he found out he couldn't be an Army officer after graduation, because he was crazy, so he decided to blow the chance for a West Point degree to get attention by making a public statement.

I'm not a fan of religion, at all, but this guy was an attention seeking nut, who would never have done this if he hadn't found out he was ineligible for the military.
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Old 12-07-2012, 15:21   #29
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
I can see where it is likely the two are related. If he was already being hazed for not being religious, can you imagine the comments he got when his father killed himself? I bet he had to endure morbid quips about his heathen father burning in hell or rotting in the ground.
You are creating a fantasy world that doesn't really exist in the military. It's a long, long way from religious and people give less of a crap about your religion than almost anywhere I can think of, including college. The only people I have ever heard make claims like this guy are those who have an axe to grind for other reasons.
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Old 12-07-2012, 15:26   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
You are creating a fantasy world that doesn't really exist in the military. It's a long, long way from religious and people give less of a crap about religion than almost anywhere I can think of, including college. The only people I have ever heard make claims like this guy are those who have an axe to grind for other reasons.
Meh, what would I know about the military...

(Operation Desert Shield/Storm & Operation Deliberate Force)

I get it, I'm proud of my time in the service too and you're right about religion being a non issue in the mainstream military. However, I'm not so naive as to believe that a paramilitary organization such as West Point can be completely immune to effects found throughout society.
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."

Last edited by Geko45; 12-07-2012 at 21:47..
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Old 12-07-2012, 15:35   #31
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And since it seems relevant, I actually experience something like this right now. Working for a large school district, I've witnessed organized calls to prayer during work hours at official office functions. I just lower my head and wait for them to finish. I don't pray, I don't say amen, but I don't advertise that I am an atheist either. If I wanted to, I could probably have a pretty good pay day with an EEOC complaint and lawsuit, but that's really not my style.
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 12-07-2012, 16:16   #32
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There are no atheists in foxholes, because they always test out of infantry.
Now THATS funny!
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Old 12-07-2012, 20:57   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
And since it seems relevant, I actually experience something like this right now. Working for a large school district, I've witnessed organized calls to prayer during work hours at official office functions. I just lower my head and wait for them to finish. I don't pray, I don't say amen, but I don't advertise that I am an atheist either. If I wanted to, I could probably have a pretty good pay day with an EEOC complaint and lawsuit, but that's really not my style.

Your stock just went up....
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Old 12-07-2012, 21:54   #34
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Your stock just went up....
LOL! Well, remember that the next time I say something that pisses you off!

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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."

Last edited by Geko45; 12-07-2012 at 21:55..
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:17   #35
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Maybe the fact that I was an enlisted man in the Army and an officer in the Air Force made a difference.
I was Air Force enlisted, and based on my experience I don't think being an officer had anything to do with it.

They explicitly told everyone taking it at the time I originally took it that we could leave out "So help me God" in the enlistment oath, for instance.

We had to go to the chapel once during basic, as a mandatory thing. However, that was explicitly so they could ensure that everyone knew where it was (basically so no one could claim they weren't allowed to worship by virtue of not knowing). After that it was basically go if you wanted, don't if you don't. A lot of people found religion (because it was basically some hours every week with no TI around), but I always stayed back at the dorm - and we might have had to buff the floors or whatever during that time but it wasn't specifically "you're not going to church so we're punishing you", it was "this stuff needs done and you're here, do it", and there were times that we would just end up reading or polishing our boots and BS'ing or whatever (maybe 3-4 guys didn't go).

There was no officer-initiated, specifically Christian prayer like you hear stories about coming from the Army, nor was there any hazing based on religion, that I remember.

There wasn't anything specifically pro-non-believer, either, but the chaplains were there for people who wanted them and the people who didn't basically could go about their duties and life w/out worry.

This may largely be a matter of where, when, and particularly under who that any particular person served.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:12   #36
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Originally Posted by void * View Post
We had to go to the chapel once during basic, as a mandatory thing. However, that was explicitly so they could ensure that everyone knew where it was (basically so no one could claim they weren't allowed to worship by virtue of not knowing). After that it was basically go if you wanted, don't if you don't. A lot of people found religion (because it was basically some hours every week with no TI around), but I always stayed back at the dorm - and we might have had to buff the floors or whatever during that time but it wasn't specifically "you're not going to church so we're punishing you", it was "this stuff needs done and you're here, do it", and there were times that we would just end up reading or polishing our boots and BS'ing or whatever (maybe 3-4 guys didn't go).

In the Army, we don't usually make them do work if they stay in the barracks instead of going to church. In fact, the ones who don't go usually get personal time and sometimes even calls home and PX trps and such. Not many usually go to church - far less than half. Among those, many only go because the churches tend to give them snacks to encourage them to come every Sunday. We had many who would freely admit that didn't follow the religion they were going to church for. We had black kids from New York going to the mormon service and white kids from kansas going to the muslim services, etc. Nobody cares, either among the privates or the drill sergeants.

Last summer, I had to take 3 privates to the Wiccan service, because they were just curious, but when a guy wearing a skirt, pink half shirt and makeup met them at the door, they decided to try a different religion the next week (I made them stay for the Wiccan service - they said he danced and cried during it). Then I went to the Episcopal church and picked up the privates there, one of whom said she really was a Wiccan, but the Episcopals had pizza and cookies.

When I was deployed in 2009-10, I know there were some sort of religious services on our FOB sometimes, but very, very few people ever went.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:18   #37
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
In the Army, we don't usually make them do work if they stay in the barracks instead of going to church.
Well, like I said - it wasn't a matter of "You're going to do this because you didn't go to church". It was a matter of "this needs done, you're here, do it". And, again, like I said, there were plenty of times it was just sit-around-and-do-basically-whatever (like reading letters and such).

It was really no different than when people had visitor center visits or whatever - if work needed done the people who were in the barracks did it. It didn't matter *why* the people who weren't in the barracks, weren't in the barracks.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:34   #38
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There's a lot of religion in the military, I simply respected their chosen path and went about my day. That West Point story seems to be all bout his mental capacity to be an officer, with a little sizzle thrown in for PR purposes. Heck when I was in boot camp I went to the Mormon services. Only because the catholic and protestant services were more of the same boot camp regimen. In the Mormon services they brought in hot chicks to talk to us, great planning on their part. They let us write letters home and actually speak. Nothing wrong with hot chicks and a little free time. Thanks Mormons, brilliant plan.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:49   #39
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I’m sure there’s more to the story.

When I went through USAF OTS, the top student, OT Wing Commander, etc., was a Sr. Master Sgt who just wanted to prove he was qualified to be an officer. He quit the day before graduation and handed in his retirement papers. He had 26 years in at that time.

Big waste of taxpayer’s money.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:26   #40
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Atheists graduate West Point every year without so much as a complaint in their four year experience. I wonder what his real reason is.
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Old 12-11-2012, 19:56   #41
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I hear the military still includes an area called "spiritual fitness" in a soldier's review. Yet this same military will not hire an atheist chaplain. Something's wrong there.
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Old 12-11-2012, 20:12   #42
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'A cadet quitting West Point less than six months before graduation'

There is more to the story ...
I'm not buying it either. My friend graduated from there and it was no cakewalk. You don't put in all that effort and just up and quit like that.
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Old 12-11-2012, 20:42   #43
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I'm not buying it either. My friend graduated from there and it was no cakewalk. You don't put in all that effort and just up and quit like that.
Some people quit even later. They turn conscientious objector.
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Old 12-11-2012, 20:54   #44
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I hear the military still includes an area called "spiritual fitness" in a soldier's review. Yet this same military will not hire an atheist chaplain. Something's wrong there.
I was in from 1977 t0 1981 never heard of spiritual fitness. An atheist chaplain? What sort of weak minded atheist needs someone to rub their shoulders and affirm their non belief?
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Old 12-11-2012, 20:59   #45
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I was in from 1977 t0 1981 never heard of spiritual fitness. An atheist chaplain? What sort of weak minded atheist needs someone to rub their shoulders and affirm their non belief?
Here you go:
http://archive.truthout.org/armys-fi...nder-fire66577

With the suicide rate being so high in the military, an atheist chaplain might be good to help them cope with the institutional insanity.
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Old 12-11-2012, 21:00   #46
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I was in from 1977 t0 1981 never heard of spiritual fitness. An atheist chaplain? What sort of weak minded atheist needs someone to rub their shoulders and affirm their non belief?
It's reassuring to have someone tell you that there's nobody going to whip up a miracle and pull your ass out of a hopeless situation. While rubbing your shoulders, of course.

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Old 12-11-2012, 21:18   #47
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I hear the military still includes an area called "spiritual fitness" in a soldier's review. Yet this same military will not hire an atheist chaplain. Something's wrong there.
Religious Issues
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Old 12-11-2012, 21:29   #48
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That bs needs to stop. It is clearly unconstitutional.
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With the suicide rate being so high in the military, an atheist chaplain might be good to help them cope with the institutional insanity.
Or troubled service members could avail themselves of mental health counselor services instead of organizing into a no god church. I envision a professional atheist being about as useful as professional black Jesse Jackson. Perhaps you need someone to lean on to shore up your lack of belief. I don't.
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Old 12-11-2012, 21:29   #49
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It's reassuring to have someone tell you that there's nobody going to whip up a miracle and pull your ass out of a hopeless situation. While rubbing your shoulders, of course.

Randy

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