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Old 12-19-2012, 10:41   #1
Jim1970
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Seeking input on a hair-raising experience

Hello,

My wife recently had an experience that she shared with me that I found to be somewhat alarming. I would like to share and have opinions expressed by the members of this board. While I am asking for opinions, I will be seeking legal consult to ascertain the specific laws in my state.

I had to leave town for a family emergency. I left Sunday morning. I returned home yesterday afternoon. After settling in, following my return home, my wife told me that, Sunday night, after going to bed, someone came inside our fenced yard (opening a closed gate), and began pounding on the front door. She retrieved her handgun, and called 9-1-1, then sat waiting for the person to make entry, with plans to shoot if needed. There was no way for her to see who the person was, but there was no one expected that she would have known. After the pounding and yelling went on a for a few minutes on the front door, this person then left our yard and went to the back side of the house and began pounding on a window. This too lasted for a couple of minutes, then it stopped. No law enforcement ever showed up. She was quite shaken, but had no further troubles that night, or any other night I was away.

So, after hearing about this, my brain took off and I laid awake for several hours last night wondering what I would have done differently had I been home. John Farnham taught me to go to great lengths to avoid conflict, but I do believe in this case that I would have gone outside with my handgun in hand had I been home. We live near a bar, and sometimes around 2am we have drunk idiots in the area being noisy - but we've never had one come to the house and act like this.

My question to the wise forum is: had I gone outside, encountered a drunken idiot, would I have been legally okay to use deadly force if he escalated the situation upon seeing I was armed and hearing my commands to GTFO? Or, would me going outside be seen as unnecessary and ultimately causing the problem if deadly force became needed?

Thank you in advance,

Jim
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:57   #2
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I would have not gone outside. I would have yelled from the inside that you have a gun and to GTFO of here. Had he broke down the door or window and entered, he would have been a dead man. My family and friends all know NEVER to enter my house unannounced and to identify themselves first so I know who it is. In Florida we have the "STAND YOUR GROUND LAW," but in light of the drunks you have nearbye, would have given them the opportunity to flee and save you all the paper work.

Last edited by BADOS; 12-19-2012 at 10:58..
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:07   #3
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Agree with BADOS. I, too, would NOT have gone outside and would have issued warnings / commands from inside. 911 being unresponsive is unfortunate as that would have solved everything (hopefully) for you.

Warning and doing everything from indoors seems to be the safest choice. Then if the drunk comes in and you can see what you are facing in your house it would have been a safer and with better outcome for you. Glad it didn't come to that for both you and your wife.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:08   #4
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Might I ask what was being yelled? You said the person was yelling...yelling what?
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:13   #5
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I would not have left a locked door to go outside. 9-1-1 called and then the AR and I would announce ourselves. If continued entry was tried, I would conintue announcing. If a breach was attempted I would shoot. Once they are in your house, you're behind the curve.

Hopefully, this never happens and I never need to use my firearms in a defensive manner.

After a couple minutes I would have called back to 9-1-1 and let them know a man with a weapon is breaking in. This should raise the response level from a drunken disturbance to possible loss of life.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:24   #6
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Absolutely agree with the foregoing. Going outside to "confront" the perp could be interpreted as "escalation" of the situation.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:44   #7
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Absolutely agree with the foregoing. Going outside to "confront" the perp could be interpreted as "escalation" of the situation.
This.

And John Farnam is a certified idiot.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:25   #8
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I would doubt that Farnam advocates leaving a secure position and going outside to confront anyone.

Tactics dictate hold a secure position and let your adversary come to you. to do so he/they must expose themselves and thus make themselves vulnerable.

Don't volunteer to be a victim.
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Old 12-19-2012, 13:15   #9
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Jim,

Respectfully, I am not even sure why this is a question. What one is legally able to do and what is prudent in that instant are not always mutually inclusive.

For example, since the scenario involved your wife...let us assume she was legally able to go outside her door to check, and if happened upon by a drunkard, vagabond, or thief, she shoots him (dead) and it is a "legal" shoot.

Look at the two very different posts.

Post A: My wife heard some banging and shouting, she got a gun, called 911, hunkered down. The police never came, the next morning she made pancakes for breakfast.


Post B: My wife heard some banging and shouting, she got a gun, called 911, headed outside to check, shot the dude who attacked her with a pipe iron. He did open her face and head up pretty good (yes, in real life sometimes we get hurt), she is probably going to lose vision in that left eye, and will need reconstructive surgery on the broken jaw + implants for those two teeth knocked loose.
Her sister came over, as the police were there for over 3 hours with her at the hospital. The yard is a MESS! Blood everywhere, the police put tape up, we can't get in the house. The cats are still in there, but they wouldn't let us get them. Although she did everything right, the county prosecutor is still going to convene a grand jury to (blah blah blah).
That drunk guy's family is ****ing steamed at us. They claim he thought he was at his house, and that she was trying to rob him (he did speak before he croaked). They plan on suing. It's pretty hard looking those folks in the eye every day, especially since they are only four houses over. I would really hate to move, but I don't see this being resolved anytime soon.
Fortunately, with the addition of the outside cameras and signs notifying folks that we are recording, the harassment has fallen off significantly.

Sometimes I wish there was an undo button on life. Boy, I wish I'da listened to that Gallium fellar. He is smart beyond his years. Some guys are so lucky. Wealth, smarts and rugged handsomeness all in one incredible package.
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Old 12-19-2012, 15:17   #10
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Hello,

Thank you for the responses. Just to be clear:

* I wasn't advocating for my wife to go outside - I was asking about input on my thoughts for me to go outside.

* John never taught me to leave cover.

* I don't know what was being yelled - the banging on the door came first, then the dogs started barking, then the guy outside starting yelling. That's the story I received, and I think adrenaline and fear contributed to her not getting many details - that and being woken up at 2am.

The take home message for me is "stay put and let them come to you." I also like the suggestion to call 9-1-1 again and comment about an armed intruder.

Thank again for the input.

Jim
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Old 12-19-2012, 15:24   #11
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Put up the sign on your yard, fence, and windows to warn anyone that comes to your house.
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Old 12-19-2012, 16:01   #12
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I think your wife did good. Except she should have called 9-1-1 again. And make it clear to 9-1-1 that someone is trying to break in and she's armed and ready to defend herself with a gun if he entered the house. Have her stay on the phone with 9-1-1.
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Old 12-19-2012, 17:28   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
Don't volunteer to be a victim.
I think we have a winner!!!
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Old 12-19-2012, 18:18   #14
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I have to agree with those who recommend staying indoors. Going outside may be seen as some jurors as escalating the situation. I'd just yell at him to go away from behind a locked door.
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:20   #15
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I'm not sure why anyone would consider going outside.
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:31   #16
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I'm not sure why anyone would consider going outside.
THIS. With all due respect, why in the hell would you even consider going outside when a madman is pounding on your house? That makes no sense whatsoever. That's like leaving your car when some road rage idiot is pounding on your hood at a stoplight. You're asking for trouble on a number of different levels.

More safety and less trouble wins over less safety and more trouble.
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:07   #17
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I agree with all other posters here, stay inside!

Did you ever find out why LE never showed? While everything turned out ok this time, it just as easily could have gone much differently. What about possible future calls for aid placed for a similar reason? Do you expect that they will respond?

I would be more concerned about figuring out the answer to this question.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:33   #18
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Sic the dogs on them.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:39   #19
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Maybe the house was on fire, or you had a chimney fire going on. Sure, stay put. I get an occasional door beater at night when they run off into the snow berm and want towed out. Usually drunk. I stand where I can see them but I am concealed and armed. I usually yell at them **** off, I'm calling the cops.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:55   #20
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Originally Posted by H&K 4 LIFE View Post

Did you ever find out why LE never showed? While everything turned out ok this time, it just as easily could have gone much differently. What about possible future calls for aid placed for a similar reason? Do you expect that they will respond?

I would be more concerned about figuring out the answer to this question.
yes.....good question. I'm curious too.
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