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Old 12-19-2012, 10:49   #1
M&P15T
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The Big Picture

With all that is going on, with threats of bans and such, I am a bit concerned that folks aren't grasping what is really happening. How dire these straits are that we're going to have to navigate.

We as "gun-owners" are pretty myopic, from what I can tell reading posts in various threads. Most here seem to see the rest of the voters in this country as fitting into one of only two catagories, "pro-gun" and "anti-gun" This is a big, huge mistake.

I am guessing that there are about 80-100 million true "gun-owners" in this country. Out of that 80-100 million, perhaps 50-75 million are "pro-gun" 2A supporters. Based on the fact that the NRA only has around 4.3 million members, my numbers may be a bit high.

On the other side of the equation, there are probably much fewer really rabid anti-gun folks. Maybe 5-10 million active, "anti-gun" folks that want more anti-gun legislation. And that's a complete guess, and also probably high.

This leaves hundreds of millions of people in this country that really couldn't give a damn one way or another about guns. Folks that don't talk about guns, don't read about them, don't care about them.

Up until now.

The shooting and killing of 20 6-7 year olds has triggered an innate, normal, natural and massive emotional over-reaction in basically everyone. The several million 2A supporters, and the several million rabid anti-gunners are not the issue.

The real issue is the hundreds of millions of people that normally could not care less about guns. Tens of millions of those people are now calling, writting and e-mailing their elected officials, demanding that they do something about guns, right the hell now......they are threatening to remove them from office, unless they get something done.

The fact that there are NRA "A" rated elected officials that are coming out and saying that they would support anti-gun legislation, should be a big friggin' clue to all of us that this is something the likes of which we have never seen.

I was in another thread discussing the "Gun Show Loop Hole", and it is clear most folks here are not understanding the avalanche of negative public opinion that is falling on us. Nor do most folks here understand how that translates into political/legislative action and effects.

Drop you privates and grab your socks, something wicked this way comes.

ETA: I guess the point is not clear enough....my bad.

The anti-gunners currently have the political capital to pass anti-gun legislation following the recent events. That capital and momentum will fade over time....but how long it will take is not knowable.

So, the point is that we have a decision to make; possibly see sweeping anti-gun legislation pass while we dig in our heels and accept nothing, or come to the table with our own ideas, have our own influence on what transpires.

The anti-gunners are going to have their victory, there can be no debate about that. But what should we do? Should we come to the table with something that we can swallow, that doesn't infringe on our rights? Or just continue our current stance and sit back, and watch things happen that are out of our control?

Last edited by M&P15T; 12-19-2012 at 16:26..
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:13   #2
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I bet if you took the number of people that post on GT and divide that by two you would get the actual number of gun owners who will be fighting for high capacity magazines and black rifles.

Like you said millions of people who suddenly care a lot about stopping mass killings in the United States.

Less face it, another fact nobody on here wants to hear is that this **** happens more in the US than anywhere else in the world and there is a reason. What is the reason? NFL? MLB? Guns?
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:16   #3
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If the good folks here on G.T. cannot read, digest and comprehend these basic concepts, they're not going to understand how bad things are right now.

We will under-estimate the enemy, and we will lose because we will refuse to play the political game that is afoot.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:18   #4
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:19   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
If the good folks here on G.T. cannot read, digest and comprehend these basic concepts, they're not going to understand how bad things are right now.

We will under-estimate the enemy, and we will lose because we will refuse to play the political game that is afoot.
I don't see it as a political game. People are armed for Bear at this point.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:25   #6
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I don't see it as a political game. People are armed for Bear at this point.
This makes no sense.

It's as if you are confusing topics.

This most certainly is a political game, and if you fail to grasp this, if you fail to understand and appreciate it, you will think you don't need to play.

As far as being armed, I really have no idea what you're attempting to communicate.

Are you trying to suggest something about armed revolution? Please keep that **** to yourself.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:26   #7
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1,500 ARs (actual Bushmasters) sold in three hours Monday at one distributor.
Good for Bushamster and their distributor. I love to hear it. Capitalism at it's finest.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:33   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chonny View Post
I bet if you took the number of people that post on GT and divide that by two you would get the actual number of gun owners who will be fighting for high capacity magazines and black rifles.

Like you said millions of people who suddenly care a lot about stopping mass killings in the United States.

Less face it, another fact nobody on here wants to hear is that this **** happens more in the US than anywhere else in the world and there is a reason. What is the reason? NFL? MLB? Guns?
Not really... it happens more overseas but because we are a first world nation... it makes a huge headline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:38   #9
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M&P couldn't win over anyone in the other thread so he starts a new one saying he same stuff.

The only guys who are going to agree with you are the Obama voters. Everyone else knows what they really want.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:41   #10
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Thanks for the heads-up.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:41   #11
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No more compromises. Period. They will never be satisfied. After they take the whole 2nd amendment, they will find something else to lust after.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:44   #12
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M&P, I asked in the other thread but never got an answer. Who are the 2 "A" rated Repubs that are now talking gun control?
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:46   #13
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The new AWB will require registration of those grandfathered in. They'll round those up for confiscation inside of a year.

Killings will continue because they didn't go far enough so handguns will be next.

Then pump actions, then lever actions..............
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:46   #14
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Originally Posted by G36's Rule View Post
M&P couldn't win over anyone in the other thread so he starts a new one saying he same stuff.

The only guys who are going to agree with you are the Obama voters. Everyone else knows what they really want.
Buddy, you can try and dismiss what I'm saying, but it doesn't change reality. And stooping to personal jabs is counter-productive at this point.

If you can't come to grips with the big picture, and the severity of what is happening, the train is going to leave without you.

And you sit at the station wondering what the hell happened.

Which will be a bit too late.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:49   #15
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No, I'm actually fighting by contacting people and being active about this. Not by compromising right off the bat.

Can you answer my question?
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:51   #16
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OP what are you purposing then?
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:55   #17
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M&P, I asked in the other thread but never got an answer. Who are the 2 "A" rated Repubs that are now talking gun control?
They were Democrats, so that kinda makes sense.

Still doesn't change anything. It's a highly politicized issue now, and that's really, really bad.

Last edited by M&P15T; 12-19-2012 at 15:54..
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:57   #18
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I screwed up on that one, got bad information. So I'll take my beatings on that.

Still doesn't change anything. It's a highly politicized issue now, and that's really, really bad.
I have no desire to beat on you. If fact, most of the time I like your post.

I just wanted to know so I could chew on their ear, or their office anyway.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:59   #19
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OP what are you purposing then?
Finding a way to calm down the millions of people that are pressuring their elected representatives. Their interest is going to wane over time, if we don't have another mass-shooting in the near future.

The Fiscal Cliff is taking all of the press, time and energy right now. The pressures on elected officials will wane over time, these sorts of tragedies have a politcal shelf-life before momentum is lost.

But if worse comes to worse, I proposed in another thread having the NRA bring to the table closing the gun-show loop-hole.

It's something that wouldn't restrict our freedoms and rights, but it would give the gun-banners a political "win", and placate the millions of folks that don't normally care about guns.

Of course we need to start with contacting our elected officials and making sure our voices are heard. That kinda goes without saying.

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Old 12-19-2012, 13:01   #20
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Originally Posted by G36's Rule View Post
I have no desire to beat on you. If fact, most of the time I like your post.

I just wanted to know so I could chew on their ear, or their office anyway.

Gotcha...

It could very well be that all of us contacting our elected representatives will be all that is necessary......maybe.

I hope I haven't been too harsh with you, but I am afraid that folks aren't seeing how bad this may get.

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Old 12-19-2012, 13:22   #21
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Finding a way to calm down the millions of people that are pressuring their elected representatives. Their interest is going to wane over time, if we don't have another mass-shooting in the near future.

The Fiscal Cliff is taking all of the press, time and energy right now. The pressures on elected officials will wane over time, these sorts of tragedies have a politcal shelf-life before momentum is lost.

But if worse comes to worse, I proposed in another thread having the NRA bring to the table closing the gun-show loop-hole.

It's something that wouldn't restrict our freedoms and rights, but it would give the gun-banners a political "win", and placate the millions of folks that don't normally care about guns.

Of course we need to start with contacting our elected officials and making sure our voices are heard. That kinda goes without saying.
You want every FTF transaction between two individuals to have a background check? You don't think that would not restrict our freedoms?
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Old 12-19-2012, 13:29   #22
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M&P with friends like you we really don't need enemies.

Do you work on John McCain's staff?
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Old 12-19-2012, 13:31   #23
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You want every FTF transaction between two individuals to have a background check? You don't think that would not restrict our freedoms?
No, not at all.

Just at gun shows.

Again, the idea is apeasement without restricting any real rights. This idea is sort of a "last ditch" idea, just if we're forced to do something in the face an avalanche of anti-gun legislation.

This would give the left a poltical win that they may absolutely have to have, without actually hurting our rights. But of course that's a double edged sword, and part of the "slippery slope" we all worry about.
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Old 12-19-2012, 13:33   #24
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Just as an aside, this O'Riley Factor segment was pretty good. Yes, Bill doesn't have every fact correct, but it represents the sort of calm, fact based debate this country really has to have, keeping the 2A first and foremost.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2044283840001/

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Old 12-19-2012, 13:36   #25
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Good Luck!

Good Luck in your efforts, Sir. I recently attempted what I thought was a reasonable discusion on (Black Rifles/Assault Weapons/Battle Rifles) semi-auto rifles on this site. It rapidly degraded into name calling (yes - I returned same with vigor!), and credential questioning. And you see, it has begun to happen to you. Please waste less time than I have done attempting to answer some of these posts. Save Yourself! And have a Merry Christmas!
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This makes no sense.

It's as if you are confusing topics.

This most certainly is a political game, and if you fail to grasp this, if you fail to understand and appreciate it, you will think you don't need to play.

As far as being armed, I really have no idea what you're attempting to communicate.

Are you trying to suggest something about armed revolution? Please keep that **** to yourself.
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