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Old 01-25-2013, 22:43   #301
steveksux
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You guys crack me up. I'm gone for almost the entire day from here.... I must have missed a morning staff meeting or something.



G36S, hint, no one has any power over anyone on the internet that is not freely given.

Steve, learn that other people have other ways of looking at things. See info given to G36S above.
We're all embarrassed for you. This denial of yours is a clear sign of a lack of intellectual capacity.

Isn't that the type of response you're so fond of resorting to?

Randy

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Old 01-26-2013, 05:53   #302
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Steve, it's not working. You, personally, are comic relief for me, not much more.

Dermatobia Hominis. When it's so obvious that you are trying upset me with your 3rd grade level insults, it doesn't work. It's obvious that you lose your composure when someone doesn't agree with you. You must be a hoot to hang out with. If you acted like this in real life, you'd be a series of YouTube moments.

I've no problem at all returning insults, I usually give a guy a chance and stay civil as long as they do. I have no obligation to turn the other cheek? Is that why you guys like to argue with Christians??
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Old 01-28-2013, 00:04   #303
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swing and a miss. Yer boring me.
And still have not addressed the points I raised. Because you can't. You lack the capacity to do so. Ha Ha. I know I'm just a joke to you, I am angry, butt hurt and you're just returning insults. What a crock. Get over yourself.

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Old 01-28-2013, 05:50   #304
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I know you think you made a point at some point, but it's lost in the background noise of your ranting.

Make a clear point that's on topic for the thread. That might do it.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:23   #305
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I know you think you made a point at some point, but it's lost in the background noise of your ranting.

Make a clear point that's on topic for the thread. That might do it.
No I raised points, as in plural and they were on topic. Again I know you have issues with definitions. I made several clear points and you're too much of an assclown to address them and/or don't understand them enough to do so.

At least folk like JB admit they don't and have no desire to do so. You just pretend you know what you are talking about.

I can't wait to read your response consisting of some bang/chill nonsense. In fact I doubt you'll even result to that. It will just be more insults.

I'll will insult you but it will be laced with legitimate arguments. I don't feel the need to be polite to make my point.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:31   #306
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...

....

I don't feel the need to be polite to make my point.
maybe that's how it got lost.

Anyway. I asked, you declined. Maybe you can't find them either. Guess we are done here.

As a last word, evolution is very possible, even most likely probable. The way I see it, that can be true all by itself, without really supporting creationism or natural phenomena as an origin story.

Evolution is a very good description of what happens after life was present.
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Old 01-31-2013, 22:15   #307
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maybe that's how it got lost.

Anyway. I asked, you declined. Maybe you can't find them either. Guess we are done here.

As a last word, evolution is very possible, even most likely probable. The way I see it, that can be true all by itself, without really supporting creationism or natural phenomena as an origin story.

Evolution is a very good description of what happens after life was present.
Evolution is more than possible or probable; it's an observed fact.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:33   #308
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Evolution is more than possible or probable; it's an observed fact.
We both believe in it, no problem.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:32   #309
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We both believe in it, no problem.
In the same way I "believe in" gravity, sure.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:04   #310
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In the same way I "believe in" gravity, sure.

Just to be curious, why do you think you react this way with someone that almost fully agrees with you on a small little detail like this?
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:54   #311
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Just to be curious, why do you think you react this way with someone that almost fully agrees with you on a small little detail like this?
Perhaps because evolution has been shown to exist? Whether you choose to "believe in" it, or not, has no bearing on that reality.

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Old 02-01-2013, 10:59   #312
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Perhaps because evolution has been shown to exist? Whether you choose to "believe in" it, or not, has no bearing on that reality.
True. What we believe doesn't define reality for anyone other than ourselves.

Unless you are an evolutionary scientist and have done all of the supporting experiments yourself, aren't you just believing what you have been told, likely because it does fit well with a lot of other stuff you have been told?

We agree, we believe in evolution. Where is the problem?
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:36   #313
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When you were in PA school, did you believe in what your texts and teachers told you, or did you go out and experiment on patients until you figured out what kills them and what keeps them alive?
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Old 02-01-2013, 13:35   #314
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When you were in PA school, did you believe in what your texts and teachers told you, or did you go out and experiment on patients until you figured out what kills them and what keeps them alive?
Actually, that's where "trust but verify" started to mean the most to me. Not every patient knows that when you give them Sudafed, they are supposed to be more alert. Some get drowsy, some have allergic reactions. It's even ok to "try" a medicine on someone to see if it will work. Just be sure the patient knows, is informed, and that your peers would agree what you did was reasonable. In medicine, it's not about right and wrong as much as it about meeting the acceptable standard of care. In medicine it's not usually a good idea to use rules with "always" or "never". The way I treat traumatic amputations from blast injury is much different than I was taught in school. Surprisingly, they don't usually bleed all that much. Usually, you can get them evacuated and into a surgical suite without having to tighten a tourniquet.

There is no reason not to believe in evolution, the reasoning seems sound, it fits in with everything else pretty nicely. I do see that some structures would have intermediate structures that would not function, but evolutionary leaps are possible. Generally speaking when making most decisions during an average day, there is no reason to disbelieve in it. Now
I have not done the experiments myself, and so I'm only going off of information that I've been told, but I have no problems believing in evolution.

So we both believe in evolution. No problem.
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Old 02-01-2013, 16:00   #315
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Evolution is a very good description of what happens after life was present.
It's also, IMO, a pretty good description of what got the self replicating 'non-life' to the point where it met all of our definitions for life in the first place. The original book on the subject, if you'll recall, was called "On the Origin of the Species by Means of Natural Selection". Darwin was only talking about what he had observed, which was speciation. There wasn't any speculation from him on what had kicked the whole process off so the "abiogenesis" aspect of it didn't make it into the book.

This is where I break ranks with most evolutionists. I see no reason why the natural combining of elements into the self-replicating precursor building blocks of life should not fall under the definition of 'Evolution' as well. I think the constant reminder that evolution and abiogenesis are not the same thing is a bit of a knee jerk reaction to the boorish claims from theists that "you can't show what started life off in the first place". So what, neither can they and we're getting closer to that explanation so the theory of evolution still has a better story.

At the early stages it was more about chemistry than evolution but there's that other constant reminder you keep getting from us, that life is not "wild random chance" and each new step was the starting point for the next step. There's still a natural selection process going on before there was anything that scientists would agree to call "life".
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Old 02-01-2013, 18:04   #316
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So, sometimes ya just gotta have faith. It's cool. Nothing wrong with that.
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Old 02-01-2013, 18:11   #317
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Just to be curious, why do you think you react this way with someone that almost fully agrees with you on a small little detail like this?
I react this way because there's a crucial difference between "believing in things" and "accepting facts," and prefer to avoid potential equivocations. I react similarly when people claim things like "evolution is just a theory," because it's an equivocation of the term "theory."

Out of curiosity, would you say you believe in gravity?
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Old 02-01-2013, 19:18   #318
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I react this way because there's a crucial difference between "believing in things" and "accepting facts," and prefer to avoid potential equivocations. I react similarly when people claim things like "evolution is just a theory," because it's an equivocation of the term "theory."

Out of curiosity, would you say you believe in gravity?
But, have you verified those evolutionary facts yourself? Have you done the experiments and observations yourself, or just accepted what others have told you because they make a lot of sense and fit with the other things you've been told?

Yes, I believe in gravity.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:50   #319
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But, have you verified those evolutionary facts yourself? Have you done the experiments and observations yourself, or just accepted what others have told you because they make a lot of sense and fit with the other things you've been told?
I haven't verified all the experiments or facts, nor do I need to. I've observed enough of the facts to know it isn't a matter of faith.

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Yes, I believe in gravity.
Thank you for a straight answer.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:06   #320
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Yes, I believe in gravity.
Do you believe gravitation is one of the fundamental forces in the universe or is it an expression of the actions of intelligent falling? If you're not sure, would you advocate teaching both positions in a science class?
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