GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-19-2013, 17:48   #781
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by void * View Post
Please provide proof that the premise that there's a duck sitting on my shoulder, whispering in my ear, is false.

You won't be able to. You'll only be able to show that I have not provided any evidence for the premise that there's a duck sitting on my shoulder, whispering in my ear.

Yet, you consider it to be a 'ridiculously false' premise. Do you do so on faith? I would argue, no, you do so because there's no evidence for such a duck. You disbelieve the duck posit, yet, you don't do so on faith. Just like people can disbelieve the posit that a deity exists, on the basis of no evidence being provided, without invoking faith.



The comparison doesn't depend on whether or not they are both an unwitnessed event from millions of years ago. It depends on whether or not there's evidence for the posit.
Religious Issues

It's really getting hard to take you seriously. Please tell me you are kidding and just missed adding the smiley by mistake.

Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 17:49   #782
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by ksg0245 View Post
If one equivocates the definition of various terms, sure.



Do you also have an idiosyncratic definition of "evangelize"?
Google "Evangelical Atheist", go ahead and just click the I'm feeling lucky button. Read a bit. It fits.
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 17:51   #783
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by ksg0245 View Post
Ironic, coming from the master of answering questions not asked. Is it because you don't bother reading the questions, or is there another reason?



That's very open-minded of you, so much so that it wasn't even the issue at hand.



It doesn't. Your consistently dishonestly offering answers for questions that weren't asked does amuse, though. Your opinion may be otherwise, and that's fine.



Not a bit. I prefer honesty, is all.
We disagree. Honestly. If you want to falsely claim otherwise, that's your prerogative to do so. Don't worry, the majority around here will pretend not to notice.


Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 02-19-2013 at 17:52..
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 18:00   #784
void *
Dereference Me!
 
void *'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: #define NULL ((void *)0)
Posts: 10,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
It's really getting hard to take you seriously. Please tell me you are kidding and just missed adding the smiley by mistake.

Not kidding at all. You claim it's 'ridiculously false'. You should be able to support that statement, now, shouldn't you?

I actually, in fact, gave you your support for that statement. I've provided no evidence for a duck on my shoulder, you've got no reason to believe it - done and dusted.

You don't want to take that out, and it's not on me that the only outs you have are to take a reasonable position that happens to contradict your entire argument, or avoid the point entirely (in this case, by claiming you can't take me seriously). You're the guy who claimed something was 'ridiculously false' without actually being able to prove it.
__________________
"The human mind is seldom satisfied, and is not justifiable by any natural process whatsoever, as regards geometry, our universe differs only slightly from a long-term, bi-directional, single trait selection experiment." -- Maxwell/Einstein/Johansson

Last edited by void *; 02-19-2013 at 18:07..
void * is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 18:05   #785
LEOson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Middle America
Posts: 362
Wanna make a Catholic squirm? Hypothetically speaking, they know you are also Catholic. Said other person is a huge bible thumper. You and bible thumper engage in a debate about the Catholic church's teachings and whether or not you believe them. Bible thumper proudly proclaims that they don't believe in evolution because the bible doesn't say it happen. I...I mean this hypothetical person tells them that he believes in evolution and doesn't take the bible seriously on something like that. Bible thumpers jaw drops. Not that I would know anything about this hypothetical situation. See not all of us Catholics are crazy!
LEOson is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 18:36   #786
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by void * View Post
Not kidding at all. You claim it's 'ridiculously false'. You should be able to support that statement, now, shouldn't you?

I actually, in fact, gave you your support for that statement. I've provided no evidence for a duck on my shoulder, you've got no reason to believe it - done and dusted.

You don't want to take that out, and it's not on me that the only outs you have are to take a reasonable position that happens to contradict your entire argument, or avoid the point entirely (in this case, by claiming you can't take me seriously). You're the guy who claimed something was 'ridiculously false' without actually being able to prove it.
It's ridiculous because it means nothing one way or the other on the matter of how we got here. A duck or a goose could or could not be on your shoulder whispering sweet nothings into your ear in a sultry aflac duck voice, and it would change nothing about how we came to be as we are.

These trivial diversions are easily dismissed. Unicorns, fairies, jackelopes, and ducks on your shoulder...... it's cute and all, but completely useless.

Life began at some point on this planet. It was made, or it just happened. Many people have firm beliefs on how that occurred, and they are entitled to their belief. But claiming that it is not a matter of faith is less than honest at best.

Many have firm beliefs but deny it. Their arguments give them away though.

Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 19:06   #787
void *
Dereference Me!
 
void *'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: #define NULL ((void *)0)
Posts: 10,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
It's ridiculous because it means nothing one way or the other on the matter of how we got here. A duck or a goose could or could not be on your shoulder whispering sweet nothings into your ear in a sultry aflac duck voice, and it would change nothing about how we came to be as we are.
So you can prove the duck, that you can't prove does not exist, also did not create the universe?

Please show your work. Prove that it's impossible that a talking duck which rests on my shoulder also created the universe, and everything in it.

You're not an evangelical aduckist, are you? I mean, you've claimed it's false the duck exists, and now you've claimed the duck can't have created the universe (if it did, it's certainly relevant to the matter of how we got here). Yet you've provided no proof for either claim.
__________________
"The human mind is seldom satisfied, and is not justifiable by any natural process whatsoever, as regards geometry, our universe differs only slightly from a long-term, bi-directional, single trait selection experiment." -- Maxwell/Einstein/Johansson

Last edited by void *; 02-19-2013 at 19:14..
void * is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 19:14   #788
ksg0245
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
We disagree. Honestly. If you want to falsely claim otherwise, that's your prerogative to do so. Don't worry, the majority around here will pretend not to notice.

What is it you think I've falsely claimed?
ksg0245 is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 19:17   #789
ksg0245
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Google "Evangelical Atheist", go ahead and just click the I'm feeling lucky button. Read a bit. It fits.
You aren't going to reference Merriam-Webster on this?
ksg0245 is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 19:57   #790
Gunhaver
the wrong hands
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,736
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Religious Issues

Or is checkers more your style?
I prefer chess but I don't think I'd have much fun playing with you. It's obvious that you can't even think one move ahead let alone several.
Gunhaver is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 20:06   #791
Michael Rye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syclone538 View Post
What about someone that thinks it is very likely that a god exists? Someone that believes, but doesn't claim to know.
Hi, Syclone...good question.

In my experience, people who believe in god but claim not to know there is a god are a tiny minority of believers.

I grew up in South Carolina and have interacted with practitioners of very fundamentalist belief systems: Southern Baptist, Church of God, Pentecostal Holiness, etc..

To the extent that it would be impossible for them to even consider the possibility that there is no god, I can only deduce that they are positive that there is one.

Now, who really knows what someone truly thinks deep down?

I don't doubt that there are some people who go to church on Sunday who are really just going through the motions, usually for someone else's benefit.

I still think that the vast majority of believers though, would take the position that god does exist and would go as far as to say they know god exists.
Michael Rye is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 20:53   #792
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by void * View Post
So you can prove the duck, that you can't prove does not exist, also did not create the universe?

Please show your work. Prove that it's impossible that a talking duck which rests on my shoulder also created the universe, and everything in it.

You're not an evangelical aduckist, are you? I mean, you've claimed it's false the duck exists, and now you've claimed the duck can't have created the universe (if it did, it's certainly relevant to the matter of how we got here). Yet you've provided no proof for either claim.
Is there any chance you embibe on intoxicants in the evening on weekdays? Any chance you don't have to be at work tomorrow morning.
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 21:16   #793
void *
Dereference Me!
 
void *'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: #define NULL ((void *)0)
Posts: 10,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Is there any chance you embibe on intoxicants in the evening on weekdays? Any chance you don't have to be at work tomorrow morning.
Yet again you avoid the point. I haven't had any liquor today, thanks, but you might want to actually address the issue, instead of claiming I'm drunk. I'm enjoying watching you react under circumstances where it's fairly clear to everyone you've done pretty much *exactly* what you claim 'evangelical atheists' are doing.

You have made a claim that it is false that there is no duck on my shoulder.
You have made a claim that states that whether or not I have a duck on my shoulder means nothing one way or another for matters concerning how we got here.

You have presented no proof for either claim.

So, again - Show your work. You can either
a) Prove it's impossible for a duck sitting on my shoulder to have created the universe.
or
b) Prove there's no duck sitting on my shoulder. (remember, now, that a talking duck with the power to create the universe might well be able to keep you from seeing it.).

I'm waiting. Until then, you're just an evangelical aduckist, by your own logic.

(There's actually a third option here - you could simply admit that it's reasonable to reject a claim when there's no evidence for the claim. That would kind of put a dent in your demands that anybody who is an atheist is religious, though, wouldn't it?)
__________________
"The human mind is seldom satisfied, and is not justifiable by any natural process whatsoever, as regards geometry, our universe differs only slightly from a long-term, bi-directional, single trait selection experiment." -- Maxwell/Einstein/Johansson

Last edited by void *; 02-19-2013 at 21:28..
void * is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 21:29   #794
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by void * View Post
Yet again you avoid the point. I haven't had any liquor today, thanks, but you might want to actually address the issue, instead of claiming I'm drunk. I'm enjoying watching you react under circumstances where it's fairly clear to everyone you've done pretty much *exactly* what you claim 'evangelical atheists' are doing.

You have made a claim that it is false that there is no duck on my shoulder.
You have made a claim that states that whether or not I have a duck on my shoulder means nothing one way or another for matters concerning how we got here.

You have presented no proof for either claim.

So, again - Show your work. You can either
a) Prove it's impossible for a duck sitting on my shoulder to have created the universe.
or
b) Prove there's no duck sitting on my shoulder. (remember, now, that a talking duck with the power to create the universe might well be able to keep you from seeing it.).

I'm waiting. Until then, you're just an evangelical aduckist, by your own logic.

(There's actually a third option here - you could simply admit that it's reasonable to reject a claim when there's no evidence for the claim. That would kind of put a dent in your demands that anybody who is an atheist is religious, though, wouldn't it?)
I only asked because you actually asked me to show my work in proving a ridiculous premise that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Your duck posit is unrelated and infinitesimally insignificant to the matter at hand, which is how we came to be as we are.

I have no problem if you believe your duck is important. Send it to me, I'll arrange for some orange sauce, and we'll see just how things come out.

I do not demand that atheists are religious, I've only noticed. I'm not demanding that you agree either. I would not force reality on someone blinded by their faith. It would be cruel.
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 21:33   #795
Syclone538
Senior Member
 
Syclone538's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by void * View Post
Yet again you avoid the point. I haven't had any liquor today, thanks, but you might want to actually address the issue, instead of claiming I'm drunk. I'm enjoying watching you react under circumstances where it's fairly clear to everyone you've done pretty much *exactly* what you claim 'evangelical atheists' are doing.

You have made a claim that it is false that there is no duck on my shoulder.
You have made a claim that states that whether or not I have a duck on my shoulder means nothing one way or another for matters concerning how we got here.

You have presented no proof for either claim.

So, again - Show your work. You can either
a) Prove it's impossible for a duck sitting on my shoulder to have created the universe.
or
b) Prove there's no duck sitting on my shoulder. (remember, now, that a talking duck with the power to create the universe might well be able to keep you from seeing it.).

I'm waiting. Until then, you're just an evangelical aduckist, by your own logic.

(There's actually a third option here - you could simply admit that it's reasonable to reject a claim when there's no evidence for the claim. That would kind of put a dent in your demands that anybody who is an atheist is religious, though, wouldn't it?)
This has been tried with FSM, IPU, Zeus, magic pixies (not pixels lol), leprechauns, and I'm sure several more. He will continue to pretend to not understand.
__________________
Some people want freedom, even for those they disagree with, and some don't.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Quote:
...
The constitution is not, nor was it meant to be absolutely literal.
...
Syclone538 is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 21:33   #796
void *
Dereference Me!
 
void *'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: #define NULL ((void *)0)
Posts: 10,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
I only asked because you actually asked me to show my work in proving a ridiculous premise that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Your duck posit is unrelated and infinitesimally insignificant to the matter at hand, which is how we came to be as we are.
You're making some strong claims here. Care to share your proof?

You're right about one thing though. 'infinitesimally insignificant' means "the insignificance is very, very small" - and I do indeed agree that if a duck on my shoulder created the universe, it has a lot to do with how we came to be as we are. In fact, if a duck on my shoulder created the universe, we wouldn't be here if he hadn't.

You're claiming it's ridiculously false, though, without actually proving it. So, again - prove it is false. I'm still waiting.
__________________
"The human mind is seldom satisfied, and is not justifiable by any natural process whatsoever, as regards geometry, our universe differs only slightly from a long-term, bi-directional, single trait selection experiment." -- Maxwell/Einstein/Johansson

Last edited by void *; 02-19-2013 at 21:36..
void * is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 21:39   #797
void *
Dereference Me!
 
void *'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: #define NULL ((void *)0)
Posts: 10,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syclone538 View Post
This has been tried with FSM, IPU, Zeus, magic pixies (not pixels lol), leprechauns, and I'm sure several more. He will continue to pretend to not understand.
Oh, I know. It's still fun to watch him drop to claiming people are drunk rather than just admitting that he's rejecting the posit without having proof the posit is false, and that's ok because there's been no evidence provided. Especially given how often he claims that rudeness in others has special significance. The irony is *beautiful*, and will at least help anyone who happens to be reading this forum with no background get his number faster.
__________________
"The human mind is seldom satisfied, and is not justifiable by any natural process whatsoever, as regards geometry, our universe differs only slightly from a long-term, bi-directional, single trait selection experiment." -- Maxwell/Einstein/Johansson

Last edited by void *; 02-19-2013 at 21:54..
void * is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 21:42   #798
Geko45
CLM Number 135
Smartass Pilot
 
Geko45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Short final
Posts: 15,495


Hey Doc, here's a thought, why don't you actually answer a direct question for once in your miserable existence? I know you think you are being clever with this nonsense, but all you are actually doing is making a fool of yourself. Seriously, Void has you cornered, yet again. More importantly, everyone seems to know it but you. It's really kind of pathetic.
__________________
Peace is our profession, war is just a hobby...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Geko45 is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 21:56   #799
Geko45
CLM Number 135
Smartass Pilot
 
Geko45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Short final
Posts: 15,495


Quote:
Originally Posted by Syclone538 View Post
This has been tried with FSM, IPU, Zeus, magic pixies (not pixels lol), leprechauns, and I'm sure several more. He will continue to pretend to not understand.
Don't forget the magical unicorns...
__________________
Peace is our profession, war is just a hobby...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Geko45 is offline  
Old 02-19-2013, 21:59   #800
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by void * View Post
You're making some strong claims here. Care to share your proof?

You're right about one thing though. 'infinitesimally insignificant' means "the insignificance is very, very small" - and I do indeed agree that if a duck on my shoulder created the universe, it has a lot to do with how we came to be as we are. In fact, if a duck on my shoulder created the universe, we wouldn't be here if he hadn't.

You're claiming it's ridiculously false, though, without actually proving it. So, again - prove it is false. I'm still waiting.
The game you are playing is amusing, but it gets us nowhere.

If you would like to believe you have a duck on your shoulder, be my guest. I'm entirely unsure what you would want me to say about your duck.

You can do as you would like with it by yourself.
Cavalry Doc is offline  

 
  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:44.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 544
115 Members
429 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31