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Old 01-08-2013, 03:57   #21
Animal Mother
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Originally Posted by Detectorist View Post
Serious crime in this country has been cut like 40%. One of the reasons this happened is that we are putting more folks in jail for longer periods. Many of them, if not most, were drug users/dealers.
Wouldn't legalization accomplish the same goal, without the huge population of people in prisons?
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:12   #22
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The people who scream the loudest for decriminalization are the furthest from having to deal with it.

Those on here who scream about the legalization of drugs and how it is unconstitutional have never had to tell parents that their 17 YO daughter overdosed and was found dead in a Walmart bathroom.




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And yet even though they are illegal people still get them.

We should also ban guns, that will prevent crime from happening.


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Old 01-08-2013, 04:20   #23
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...I really wish folks would have more personal responsibility, unfortunately the majority of our citizens lack that.
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I have to disagree. I think that the majority of citizens you come in contact with, by virtue of your job, lack personal responsibility. Most people do have a sense of personal responsibility. You do not see them because they're not causing problems.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:39   #24
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Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
And yet even though they are illegal people still get them.

We should also ban guns, that will prevent crime from happening.


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Not a good comparison. The second amendment does not say anything about drugs...obviously. And there's nothing in the constitution that prevents states from being able to establish a law making drugs illegal, versus a state establishing a law that infringes on the second amendment rights.

To me, I don't see any good that comes from legalization of drugs. However I also don't see this as a federal issue. I think it ought to be left to the states. If people in a state deem it desirable to legalize, then let them. I will say that I would seek a state where drugs were deemed illegal. I grew up in an area that had major drug problems and have seen too many bad things resulting from it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:49   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
The people who scream the loudest for decriminalization are the furthest from having to deal with it.

Those on here who scream about the legalization of drugs and how it is unconstitutional have never had to tell parents that their 17 YO daughter overdosed and was found dead in a Walmart bathroom.




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You could have stopped at unconstitutional. Beyond that your emotions are irrelevant.

Replace drugs with guns and tell me how it sounds.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:54   #26
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and just to clear the air i don't use drugs.. anymore, however i think responsible adults should be able to do as they please with in moderation. some people just can't use moderation and it's no one's fault but their own.
It's their right to allow meth to destroy themselves like that. There is no moral or ethical difference in fed.gov saying you cannot do drugs or you cannot own EBR's.

People have a right to self destruct. It should be part of our liberty.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:55   #27
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It's a bit much to compare the legalization of marajuana to meth use. Huge ****ing difference. I don't know of anyone wanting to legalize meth.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:58   #28
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Not a good comparison. The second amendment does not say anything about drugs...obviously. And there's nothing in the constitution that prevents states from being able to establish a law making drugs illegal, versus a state establishing a law that infringes on the second amendment rights.

To me, I don't see any good that comes from legalization of drugs. However I also don't see this as a federal issue. I think it ought to be left to the states. If people in a state deem it desirable to legalize, then let them. I will say that I would seek a state where drugs were deemed illegal. I grew up in an area that had major drug problems and have seen too many bad things resulting from it.
The BOR is a restriction on the Federal Government not the State.

You are correct, states can restrict OR allow drug use. Just as they can affect restrictions on firearms unless directly prohibited by the State Constitution.

The BOR discusses infringement by the the Federal government that the STATE governments created. A literal basis for the 2A would prevent no one from owning firearms, the mentally ill, children, the blind, criminals This was not the intent of the 2A. The intent was to delegate powers, hence the reason for individual State Constitutions to follow similar wordings.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:00   #29
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These discussions never end because too many folks assume the COTUS was written as a bill granting rights and not as a document restricting the Federal government.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:02   #30
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Thanks. I just lost my breakfast.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:26   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detectorist View Post
I haven't heard of ANYONE saying we should legalize all drugs, only marijuana.

Let's flip this statement around and say "Yep, let's make drugs illegal". Where has that gotten us so far? We should be treating drug users, not arresting them (for drug possession/use/abuse).
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:29   #32
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You ever seen the time-progression photos of an alcoholic?

Hint: The last one usually looks really, really good.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:29   #33
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It's a bit much to compare the legalization of marajuana to meth use. Huge ****ing difference. I don't know of anyone wanting to legalize meth.
This. The funds spent fighting MJ would be far better used if it went to fight meth, one of the most destructive chemicals out there. The "labs" endanger not only those in it but anyone living nearby. There was an explosion at a nearby apartment complex that lifted the roof off the building a few inches, they man and pregnant female who lived there were not home when it happened and luckily noone else got hurt but the building is effectively destroyed due to the blast and subsequent contamination by the chemicals.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:33   #34
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A few thoughts:

1. Prohibition failed. . . except it DID snap this country out of a long out-of-control love affair with alcohol. As much as I hate gub'mint intrusion, it actually accomplished what they set out to do - get people to stop living drunken lives. But as far as not stopping the ones who want it - it did zip.

2. "Hard" drugs are dangerous. Making them available WILL increase problems with them. Period.

3. "Soft" drugs like MJ - availability will increase usage, crime and overall stupidity-while-high. But minimally because alcohol is already legal.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:34   #35
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Looks like what we are doing is working real well

for fiscal year 2013, it'll be $3.7 billion for interdiction, $9.4 billion for law enforcement, and $9.2 billion for early intervention--is actually a pretty small slice of the pie. States and municipalities have their own drug war expenses--investigating, trying, and locking up drug offenders--and those expenses actually dwarf what the federal government spends.

Civil Liberties Issues

http://reason.com/blog/2012/10/11/fo...ilure-in-a-sin
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:35   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detectorist View Post
Serious crime in this country has been cut like 40%. One of the reasons this happened is that we are putting more folks in jail for longer periods. Many of them, if not most, were drug users/dealers.
And because of maximum minimum sentencing laws, the system is forced to early release violent offenders to make room for non violent drug offenders. This is not a solution.

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Old 01-08-2013, 09:38   #37
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This. The funds spent fighting MJ would be far better used if it went to fight meth, one of the most destructive chemicals out there. The "labs" endanger not only those in it but anyone living nearby. There was an explosion at a nearby apartment complex that lifted the roof off the building a few inches, they man and pregnant female who lived there were not home when it happened and luckily noone else got hurt but the building is effectively destroyed due to the blast and subsequent contamination by the chemicals.
I'd definitely vote for my tax money to go in that direction. MJ is not that bad IMO. I've seen quite a few old friends, well people I knew from HS, that have had their lives ruined by drugs they were prescribed. MJ is primarily negative for the dealers. Make it legal and eliminate the criminal aspect of it and regulate it. That would be the better option than the road this country has been down for the last 20 years.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:41   #38
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You guys do realize that marijuana is not meth right? The only reason marijuana is illegal is because of early 20th century racism and William Randolph Hearst's greed.

I've never met ONE person who's tried it who actually thinks it should be illegal. Alcohol is far worse.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:45   #39
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none unless they are already into it i don't think anyone on a whim is going to be like "hey i think ill do some heroin or meth" who have never been into it before.
And, this is based on your experience in dealing with how many meth and heroin users?
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:46   #40
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I've never met ONE person who's tried it who actually thinks it should be illegal.
You lead a sheltered life.
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