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Old 01-08-2013, 09:49   #51
Detectorist
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Murder is illegal yet relatively common here in the U.S.

Have the laws stopped murder? Should we legalize murder? If the standard for passing laws is total prevention, then nothing can be illegal, can it?
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:53   #52
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I don't think smoking a plant and killing someone are very similar.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:58   #53
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Crime in general is still rolling end, should we end the war on crime?

INTELLECTUAL HONESTY TIME.

Arguing from a zero sum stance is disingenuous.

The goal with laws is to REDUCE a specific behavior/action (such as: Murder, Assault, Theft, Burglary, Robbery, Drug Abuse).

/]
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:07   #54
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Not LEGALIZE, DECRIMINALIZE.

What we are doing is a total and complete failure. All it succeeds in doing is sending people to criminal college, where they get more connections, learn more about drugs and crime, and get ripped.They come back as drug warriors! It creates the uselss dea and other agencies.

We have more people in prison than china and russia combined. There is a fundamental problem with how we address drug usage in this country. We shouldn't put a joint smoker in prison next to murderer's and rapists. People will always do drugs. We need to find out a better way to deal with it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:12   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustin View Post
Not LEGALIZE, DECRIMINALIZE.

What we are doing is a total and complete failure. All it succeeds in doing is sending people to criminal college, where they get more connections, learn more about drugs and crime, and get ripped.They come back as drug warriors! It creates the uselss dea and other agencies.

We have more people in prison than china and russia combined. There is a fundamental problem with how we address drug usage in this country. We shouldn't
put a joint smoker in prison next to murderer's and rapists. People will always do drugs. We need to find out a better way to deal with it.
I learn something new on the Internet every day.
Can you tell us how often this happens?
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"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:38   #56
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About as often as they have to let violent repeat offenders go to make room for first time drug users....

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Old 01-08-2013, 10:55   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Crime in general is still rolling end, should we end the war on crime?

INTELLECTUAL HONESTY TIME.

Arguing from a zero sum stance is disingenuous.

The goal with laws is to REDUCE a specific behavior/action (such as: Murder, Assault, Theft, Burglary, Robbery, Drug Abuse).

/]
Uh huh...now, tell me, one of those things is not like the other. Which is it and why?





Laws don't work on sick people.

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Old 01-08-2013, 10:56   #58
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Wouldn't legalization accomplish the same goal, without the huge population of people in prisons?
Well for certain drugs I would say probably. I relate this to marijuana for instance and the 2 states now allowing it to be purchased legally to the alcohol during the prohibition days. I don’t do drugs nor have I ever tried them with the exception of stuff prescribed to me so other than being a LE officer I have limited use experience. With that being said we can see how the new laws affect the states that just legalized marijuana and if it works and is continued to be allowed then other states can use it as a template.

The flip side to that of course is other drugs, meth, bath salts, cocaine and what not I would not agree would need to be legal. Making them illegal has not really helped the issue but making them legal would be a bad thing in my honest opinion.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:01   #59
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I have spent most of the last four years my life in emergency rooms. The amount of money that is wasted on alcoholics is STAGGERING. On drug addicts..not so much. Usually the bad druggies are drunk too. I truly despise alcohol for the amount of damage that I have personally seen it do to families. I just had to tell a wife last week that her husband had severe Brain damage because he wrecked while drunk...you all paid for his care too (his medical bills will be in the hundreds of thousands). Being concerned about drugs while allowing alcohol to be legal is insane.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:13   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustin View Post
Not LEGALIZE, DECRIMINALIZE.

What we are doing is a total and complete failure. All it succeeds in doing is sending people to criminal college, where they get more connections, learn more about drugs and crime, and get ripped.They come back as drug warriors! It creates the uselss dea and other agencies.

We have more people in prison than china and russia combined. There is a fundamental problem with how we address drug usage in this country. We shouldn't put a joint smoker in prison next to murderer's and rapists. People will always do drugs. We need to find out a better way to deal with it.
Can you please advise of the joint smoker in prison??


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Old 01-08-2013, 11:19   #61
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Same old arguments.

Prohibitionists against Liberty.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:20   #62
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Theory vs. Real life experience

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2
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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:21   #63
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Nasty ......but......

Their choice.

If looking in a mirror doesnt change em.....no law will.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:33   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Theory vs. Real life experience

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Not theory, individual liberty should be protected up until such actions affect another.

Theory would be stifling another's liberty and hoping it will correct a perceived unfavorable action. We've seen decades of how this theory has failed.

Of course no one's going slay the golden goose.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:06   #65
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Who decides who is a responsible adult?

YOU DO! Behave your self. Society rules aren't that hard to follow. If you don't behave responsibility you come up looking like those pictures.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:15   #66
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Theory vs. Real life experience

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I was 6 the first time I got drunk. When I got older I would sneak alcohol every chance I could but you can only get away with that for so long. I started smoking weed and doing other drugs when I was 13 because they were easy to get but alcohol was always what I prefered. When I got my fake ID at 15 I went almost exclusively with drinking, smoking on occasion if it was going around at a party or such but I could take it or leave it.

I haven't had either since April 13 1993. If one of my kids was going to use one or the other and it was up to me to decide which it would be weed
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:53   #67
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Good thing it's not legal, so no one can use it!
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:59   #68
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The people who scream the loudest for decriminalization are the furthest from having to deal with it.

Those on here who scream about the legalization of drugs and how it is unconstitutional have never had to tell parents that their 17 YO daughter overdosed and was found dead in a Walmart bathroom.




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The question isn't whether or not drugs are bad; it's whether or not drug laws have a positive or negative effect on health, liberty, violent crimes, property crimes, etc. It's a complex issue so more effort should be put into studying it using statistics. And we need to get people to think about it with comprehensive critical thinking.
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Old 01-08-2013, 13:58   #69
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The people who scream the loudest for decriminalization are the furthest from having to deal with it.

Those on here who scream about the legalization of drugs and how it is unconstitutional have never had to tell parents that their 17 YO daughter overdosed and was found dead in a Walmart bathroom.




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Our family got a knock on the door by cops at 4 in the morning telling my parents their oldest daughter died in a a drunk driving car accident.

Should we try prohibition again?
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Old 01-08-2013, 14:01   #70
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I'm neither a proponent of, nor am I anti anti-marijuana. That said, the reasoning for making marijuana illegal way back in the second and third decades of the 20th century was so as to keep white women from fornicating with black men.

I kid you not folks.
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Old 01-08-2013, 14:03   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Crime in general is still rolling end, should we end the war on crime?

INTELLECTUAL HONESTY TIME.

Arguing from a zero sum stance is disingenuous.

The goal with laws is to REDUCE a specific behavior/action (such as: Murder, Assault, Theft, Burglary, Robbery, Drug Abuse).

/]
ugh....

war on drugs = stopping CIA's competition.

war on crime = militarization of Police

no child left behind = indoctrinating a new generation of sheeple

and on and on it goes
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"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
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Old 01-08-2013, 14:06   #72
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Our family got a knock on the door by cops at 4 in the morning telling my parents their oldest daughter died in a a drunk driving car accident.

Should we try prohibition again?
So you tell me what the solution is?

Would your sister still be here today?


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Old 01-08-2013, 14:19   #73
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Originally Posted by syntaxerrorsix View Post
Not theory, individual liberty should be protected up until such actions affect another.

Theory would be stifling another's liberty and hoping it will correct a perceived unfavorable action. We've seen decades of how this theory has failed.

Of course no one's going slay the golden goose.
That's what he was talking about - real life experience.

Almost all our residential burglaries, car burglaries, retail thefts, thefts, etc are motivated by drug addiction. You can legalize heroin, but you can't stop addiction and tolerance. Users will continue to use more and more and require more money to purchase their drugs. Once they burn through their bank accounts and steal everything they can from their family - they will be stealing from you.
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Old 01-08-2013, 14:19   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverMore1701 View Post
Good thing it's not legal, so no one can use it!
It is legal in two states.

The federal laws hold no constitutional authority as there is no power for the federal government to regulate drugs.

You can argue for a centralized authority and back unconstitutional laws or you can argue for the COTUS and the 10A. There really isn't any grey areas. The same can be said for Judicial Review it's simply a power the SCOTUS granted themselves and convinced you to be binding.
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Old 01-08-2013, 14:21   #75
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That's what he was talking about - real life experience.

Almost all our residential burglaries, car burglaries, retail thefts, thefts, etc are motivated by drug addiction. You can legalize heroin, but you can't stop addiction and tolerance. Users will continue to use more and more and require more money to purchase their drugs. Once they burn through their bank accounts and steal everything they can from their family - they will be stealing from you.
Those crimes wouldn't be necessary if the drugs were readily available. The drug laws MADE those crimes lucrative.
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