GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-10-2013, 20:59   #21
Sarge1400
Senior Member
 
Sarge1400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
It is funny to me that the Religious Forum is a place where believers have to constantly beat back aetheists.
I'd have figured it would be people of faith maturely discussing issues of faith.
I'm guessing if there were an Aetheist Forum, people of faith wouldn't bother with it and they'd wind up arguing over Bigfoot.
That may be true if it were a religious forum. It's called Religious Issues for a reason.
Sarge1400 is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 21:02   #22
GLWyandotte
Carbon User
 
GLWyandotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell
Posts: 4,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syclone538 View Post
I do try to stay out of threads, or at least be respectful, in threads that are theists asking other theists their thoughts on something.

But the forum is Religious Issues, and we atheists do have issues with religion. Mainly for me, don't attack us (Islam) and don't make us pay for it (Christianity).
Whoa, wait a minute here-
an aetheist is one who believes in the absence of deities. Though I am Christian, I haven't attacked you at all- assuming your are Muslim, therefore not aetheist.
__________________
Leather boots are still in style for manly footwear; beads and Roman sandals won't be seen.

Formerly Glockerel, 2003
GLWyandotte is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 21:04   #23
GLWyandotte
Carbon User
 
GLWyandotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell
Posts: 4,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge1400 View Post
That may be true if it were a religious forum. It's called Religious Issues for a reason.
Semantics really...did you expect this was a staged battleground between believers and non?
__________________
Leather boots are still in style for manly footwear; beads and Roman sandals won't be seen.

Formerly Glockerel, 2003
GLWyandotte is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 21:12   #24
Syclone538
Senior Member
 
Syclone538's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
Whoa, wait a minute here-
an aetheist is one who believes in the absence of deities. Though I am Christian, I haven't attacked you at all- assuming your are Muslim, therefore not aetheist.
No I'm atheist. And agnostic, just to be clear.

I have no religion, but have religious issues. One issue with religion that I have is that Muslims attack others who are not Muslim. Another issue I have with religion is Christians trying to use public schools that we are forced to pay for.


edit

Someone who believes in the absence of deities is atheist but so is someone who simply lacks belief in deities.


Might as well get this out of the way.

Do I believe deities exist? No
Do I believe no deities exist or have existed? No

I give all gods equal odds of existing. The God of Abraham is as unlikely to exist as Zeus in my opinion.

That makes me atheist.

Do I know, or claim to know, if any deities do or have existed? No.

That makes me agnostic.

Religious Issues
__________________
Some people want freedom, even for those they disagree with, and some don't.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Quote:
...
The constitution is not, nor was it meant to be absolutely literal.
...

Last edited by Syclone538; 01-10-2013 at 21:21..
Syclone538 is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 21:31   #25
GLWyandotte
Carbon User
 
GLWyandotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell
Posts: 4,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syclone538 View Post
No I'm atheist. And agnostic, just to be clear.

I have no religion, but have religious issues. One issue with religion that I have is that Muslims attack others who are not Muslim. Another issue I have with religion is Christians trying to use public schools that we are forced to pay for.


edit

Someone who believes in the absence of deities is atheist but so is someone who simply lacks belief in deities.


Might as well get this out of the way.

Do I believe deities exist? No
Do I believe no deities exist or have existed? No

I give all gods equal odds of existing. The God of Abraham is as unlikely to exist as Zeus in my opinion.

That makes me atheist.

Do I know, or claim to know, if any deities do or have existed? No.

That makes me agnostic.

Religious Issues
I misunderstood you, my apologies.
If you have come to Jesus moment, I'll be glad to help you.
__________________
Leather boots are still in style for manly footwear; beads and Roman sandals won't be seen.

Formerly Glockerel, 2003
GLWyandotte is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 21:33   #26
Sarge1400
Senior Member
 
Sarge1400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
Semantics really...did you expect this was a staged battleground between believers and non?
Semantics my a**, words have meanings. But then, you assumed Syclone was a Muslim, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised when you display your lack of reading comprehension.

If you're looking for a place where you and like-minded people can babble all day about how wonderful your imaginary friend is, those place exist, and this ain't one on them.
Sarge1400 is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 21:34   #27
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,910


Atheist > Atheistic Agnostic > Agnostic < Theistic Agnostic < Theist.

Along that linear belief continuum, that makes logical sense.

Two dimensional belief systems do make sense, when two issues are at hand. Not when it is whether a deity exists or not.

Religious Issues

I'm not in a majority politically either.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
--Gunhaver
Don't let the guys quoted above contact your reps more than you.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 21:38   #28
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,910


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge1400 View Post
Semantics my a**, words have meanings. But then, you assumed Syclone was a Muslim, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised when you display your lack of reading comprehension.

If you're looking for a place where you and like-minded people can babble all day about how wonderful your imaginary friend is, those place exist, and this ain't one on them.
Think about it for just a moment, but wouldn't it make a little sense to make three different forums. Atheists, and all the flavors. Agnostics, and all the flavors. & Theists and all the flavors.

It would avoid a lot of conflict, and allow people to discuss their issues without interruptions from the others that aren't close to their belief systems.

I'd sure look forward to an agnostic forum. I'd expect much better manners.



Sounds like a good poll post.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
--Gunhaver
Don't let the guys quoted above contact your reps more than you.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 01-10-2013 at 21:40..
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 21:42   #29
Syclone538
Senior Member
 
Syclone538's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
...
Two dimensional belief systems do make sense, when two issues are at hand.
...
The two issues at hand are knowledge and belief. We've been over this so many times that I'll just leave it at that.
__________________
Some people want freedom, even for those they disagree with, and some don't.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Quote:
...
The constitution is not, nor was it meant to be absolutely literal.
...
Syclone538 is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 21:46   #30
Syclone538
Senior Member
 
Syclone538's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
I misunderstood you, my apologies.
...
No problem, don't worry about it. I see where the misunderstanding is and I should have been more clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
...
If you have come to Jesus moment, I'll be glad to help you.
I can't imagine that happening, but I appreciate the offer.
__________________
Some people want freedom, even for those they disagree with, and some don't.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Quote:
...
The constitution is not, nor was it meant to be absolutely literal.
...
Syclone538 is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 21:53   #31
GLWyandotte
Carbon User
 
GLWyandotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell
Posts: 4,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge1400 View Post
Semantics my a**, words have meanings. But then, you assumed Syclone was a Muslim, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised when you display your lack of reading comprehension.

If you're looking for a place where you and like-minded people can babble all day about how wonderful your imaginary friend is, those place exist, and this ain't one on them.
Please accept my apologies for licking your territorial fire hydrant.
When I see the Title "Religious Issues", you totally make sense.
__________________
Leather boots are still in style for manly footwear; beads and Roman sandals won't be seen.

Formerly Glockerel, 2003
GLWyandotte is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 22:07   #32
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,910


Quote:
Originally Posted by Syclone538 View Post
The two issues at hand are knowledge and belief. We've been over this so many times that I'll just leave it at that.
That might be true, if anyone had knowledge. No one does. If you have evidence that can prove to the majority of humanity that a god exists or doesn't, I'd love to see it.

Many have belief. It's a linear continuum between atheism and theism. Both of those are polar opposite beliefs. Agnosticism lands somewhere in between.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
--Gunhaver
Don't let the guys quoted above contact your reps more than you.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 22:16   #33
Syclone538
Senior Member
 
Syclone538's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
That might be true, if anyone had knowledge. No one does. If you have evidence that can prove to the majority of humanity that a god exists or doesn't, I'd love to see it.

Many have belief. It's a linear continuum between atheism and theism. Both of those are polar opposite beliefs. Agnosticism lands somewhere in between.
I said I was going to leave it at that, but this is new, I don't think we've had this exact exchange yet.

If there is a god, which I seriously doubt, then I think there probably are people with knowledge.

There are definitely people who claim knowledge.

If there is not a god, then no, nobody will ever have knowledge.
__________________
Some people want freedom, even for those they disagree with, and some don't.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Quote:
...
The constitution is not, nor was it meant to be absolutely literal.
...
Syclone538 is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 22:29   #34
Sarge1400
Senior Member
 
Sarge1400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
Please accept my apologies for licking your territorial fire hydrant.
That is by far the best one-liner I've heard in a while! Though I wouldn't recommend licking any fire hydrant. Reminds me of an old joke:
Q: If H2O is on the inside of a fire hydrant, what's on the outside?
A: K9P

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
When I see the Title "Religious Issues", you totally make sense.
Makes sense to me, anyway.
Sarge1400 is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 22:36   #35
Sarge1400
Senior Member
 
Sarge1400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Think about it for just a moment, but wouldn't it make a little sense to make three different forums. Atheists, and all the flavors. Agnostics, and all the flavors. & Theists and all the flavors.

It would avoid a lot of conflict, and allow people to discuss their issues without interruptions from the others that aren't close to their belief systems.

I'd sure look forward to an agnostic forum. I'd expect much better manners.



Sounds like a good poll post.
I'm sure those forums must exist elsewhere, I see no need for them here. I like the (potential) diversity of GTRI; it promotes thought. I'd likely find a strictly atheist forum to be boring.
Sarge1400 is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 22:38   #36
steveksux
Massive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
It is funny to me that the Religious Forum is a place where believers have to constantly beat back aetheists.
I'd have figured it would be people of faith maturely discussing issues of faith.
I'm guessing if there were an Aetheist Forum, people of faith wouldn't bother with it and they'd wind up arguing over Bigfoot.
You've clearly never seen any of the threads on what day the Sabbath is. Or any other thread discussing dogma that tends to be avoided by the Atheists.

Randy
steveksux is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 23:36   #37
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roering View Post
No, you left it up to a computer.
God invented the internet Roering. Don't be ignorant LOL.
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 23:40   #38
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
It is funny to me that the Religious Forum is a place where believers have to constantly beat back aetheists.
I'd have figured it would be people of faith maturely discussing issues of faith.
I'm guessing if there were an Aetheist Forum, people of faith wouldn't bother with it and they'd wind up arguing over Bigfoot.
They do. There are several threads in this forum where just the believers start bickering amongst themselves about who knows more about the bible and who's interpretation is correct and that the others are just ignorant and aren't as strong a believer. They'd do it to each other if we weren't here. You think Atheists are the ones that make people fight over religion? Man has been doing it for eons. We're just a good excuse.
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 01-10-2013, 23:42   #39
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
Semantics really...did you expect this was a staged battleground between believers and non?
It's a place for people with RELIGIOUS ISSUES... Did you think it was only for believers?
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 01-11-2013, 08:38   #40
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,910


Quote:
Originally Posted by Syclone538 View Post
I said I was going to leave it at that, but this is new, I don't think we've had this exact exchange yet.

If there is a god, which I seriously doubt, then I think there probably are people with knowledge.

There are definitely people who claim knowledge.

If there is not a god, then no, nobody will ever have knowledge.
There are people on both sides that claim knowledge. Some have even claimed to prove it, through inductive reasoning, which basically boils down to convincing oneself using personal experiences and limited data, not really proving it.

But you are correct, people claim to know. Where is the convincing proof? It's more likely those that think they know for sure, really believe.

I think it is possible to know that there is no god. I'm not exactly sure how that would be arrived at, but someone may someday develop a test for the presence of a deity, then travel back in time to the moment people think that all of what is now began and run the test. Unlikely in our lifetime.

I think it would be difficult to know either way, unless you were contacted by a deity, or there were an afterlife. You choke to death on a french fry, and suddenly you're having a conversation about how well you did on the planet, and you might know, especially if that lasted for a long while.

There are almost infinite possibilities on the nature of a deity, so one cannot limit themselves to the ones described by humans. It's also possible that deities are not immortal. Maybe one did exist, and doesn't now.

Either way, it really does seem more logical, when comparing atheists, agnostics and theists, to use a linear graphic instead of a two dimensional one. At least if you are only pigeon holing a person into the five categories I mentioned.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
--Gunhaver
Don't let the guys quoted above contact your reps more than you.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Cavalry Doc is offline  

 
  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:00.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,331
302 Members
1,029 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42