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Old 01-10-2013, 20:33   #26
Sarge1400
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Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
Semantics really...did you expect this was a staged battleground between believers and non?
Semantics my a**, words have meanings. But then, you assumed Syclone was a Muslim, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised when you display your lack of reading comprehension.

If you're looking for a place where you and like-minded people can babble all day about how wonderful your imaginary friend is, those place exist, and this ain't one on them.
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Old 01-10-2013, 20:34   #27
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Atheist > Atheistic Agnostic > Agnostic < Theistic Agnostic < Theist.

Along that linear belief continuum, that makes logical sense.

Two dimensional belief systems do make sense, when two issues are at hand. Not when it is whether a deity exists or not.

Religious Issues

I'm not in a majority politically either.
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Old 01-10-2013, 20:38   #28
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Originally Posted by Sarge1400 View Post
Semantics my a**, words have meanings. But then, you assumed Syclone was a Muslim, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised when you display your lack of reading comprehension.

If you're looking for a place where you and like-minded people can babble all day about how wonderful your imaginary friend is, those place exist, and this ain't one on them.
Think about it for just a moment, but wouldn't it make a little sense to make three different forums. Atheists, and all the flavors. Agnostics, and all the flavors. & Theists and all the flavors.

It would avoid a lot of conflict, and allow people to discuss their issues without interruptions from the others that aren't close to their belief systems.

I'd sure look forward to an agnostic forum. I'd expect much better manners.



Sounds like a good poll post.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 01-10-2013 at 20:40..
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Old 01-10-2013, 20:42   #29
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
...
Two dimensional belief systems do make sense, when two issues are at hand.
...
The two issues at hand are knowledge and belief. We've been over this so many times that I'll just leave it at that.
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Old 01-10-2013, 20:46   #30
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I misunderstood you, my apologies.
...
No problem, don't worry about it. I see where the misunderstanding is and I should have been more clear.

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If you have come to Jesus moment, I'll be glad to help you.
I can't imagine that happening, but I appreciate the offer.
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Old 01-10-2013, 20:53   #31
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Originally Posted by Sarge1400 View Post
Semantics my a**, words have meanings. But then, you assumed Syclone was a Muslim, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised when you display your lack of reading comprehension.

If you're looking for a place where you and like-minded people can babble all day about how wonderful your imaginary friend is, those place exist, and this ain't one on them.
Please accept my apologies for licking your territorial fire hydrant.
When I see the Title "Religious Issues", you totally make sense.
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Old 01-10-2013, 21:07   #32
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Originally Posted by Syclone538 View Post
The two issues at hand are knowledge and belief. We've been over this so many times that I'll just leave it at that.
That might be true, if anyone had knowledge. No one does. If you have evidence that can prove to the majority of humanity that a god exists or doesn't, I'd love to see it.

Many have belief. It's a linear continuum between atheism and theism. Both of those are polar opposite beliefs. Agnosticism lands somewhere in between.
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Old 01-10-2013, 21:16   #33
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That might be true, if anyone had knowledge. No one does. If you have evidence that can prove to the majority of humanity that a god exists or doesn't, I'd love to see it.

Many have belief. It's a linear continuum between atheism and theism. Both of those are polar opposite beliefs. Agnosticism lands somewhere in between.
I said I was going to leave it at that, but this is new, I don't think we've had this exact exchange yet.

If there is a god, which I seriously doubt, then I think there probably are people with knowledge.

There are definitely people who claim knowledge.

If there is not a god, then no, nobody will ever have knowledge.
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Old 01-10-2013, 21:29   #34
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Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
Please accept my apologies for licking your territorial fire hydrant.
That is by far the best one-liner I've heard in a while! Though I wouldn't recommend licking any fire hydrant. Reminds me of an old joke:
Q: If H2O is on the inside of a fire hydrant, what's on the outside?
A: K9P

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Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
When I see the Title "Religious Issues", you totally make sense.
Makes sense to me, anyway.
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Old 01-10-2013, 21:36   #35
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Think about it for just a moment, but wouldn't it make a little sense to make three different forums. Atheists, and all the flavors. Agnostics, and all the flavors. & Theists and all the flavors.

It would avoid a lot of conflict, and allow people to discuss their issues without interruptions from the others that aren't close to their belief systems.

I'd sure look forward to an agnostic forum. I'd expect much better manners.



Sounds like a good poll post.
I'm sure those forums must exist elsewhere, I see no need for them here. I like the (potential) diversity of GTRI; it promotes thought. I'd likely find a strictly atheist forum to be boring.
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Old 01-10-2013, 21:38   #36
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Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
It is funny to me that the Religious Forum is a place where believers have to constantly beat back aetheists.
I'd have figured it would be people of faith maturely discussing issues of faith.
I'm guessing if there were an Aetheist Forum, people of faith wouldn't bother with it and they'd wind up arguing over Bigfoot.
You've clearly never seen any of the threads on what day the Sabbath is. Or any other thread discussing dogma that tends to be avoided by the Atheists.

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Old 01-10-2013, 22:36   #37
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No, you left it up to a computer.
God invented the internet Roering. Don't be ignorant LOL.
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Old 01-10-2013, 22:40   #38
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Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
It is funny to me that the Religious Forum is a place where believers have to constantly beat back aetheists.
I'd have figured it would be people of faith maturely discussing issues of faith.
I'm guessing if there were an Aetheist Forum, people of faith wouldn't bother with it and they'd wind up arguing over Bigfoot.
They do. There are several threads in this forum where just the believers start bickering amongst themselves about who knows more about the bible and who's interpretation is correct and that the others are just ignorant and aren't as strong a believer. They'd do it to each other if we weren't here. You think Atheists are the ones that make people fight over religion? Man has been doing it for eons. We're just a good excuse.
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Old 01-10-2013, 22:42   #39
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Semantics really...did you expect this was a staged battleground between believers and non?
It's a place for people with RELIGIOUS ISSUES... Did you think it was only for believers?
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:38   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syclone538 View Post
I said I was going to leave it at that, but this is new, I don't think we've had this exact exchange yet.

If there is a god, which I seriously doubt, then I think there probably are people with knowledge.

There are definitely people who claim knowledge.

If there is not a god, then no, nobody will ever have knowledge.
There are people on both sides that claim knowledge. Some have even claimed to prove it, through inductive reasoning, which basically boils down to convincing oneself using personal experiences and limited data, not really proving it.

But you are correct, people claim to know. Where is the convincing proof? It's more likely those that think they know for sure, really believe.

I think it is possible to know that there is no god. I'm not exactly sure how that would be arrived at, but someone may someday develop a test for the presence of a deity, then travel back in time to the moment people think that all of what is now began and run the test. Unlikely in our lifetime.

I think it would be difficult to know either way, unless you were contacted by a deity, or there were an afterlife. You choke to death on a french fry, and suddenly you're having a conversation about how well you did on the planet, and you might know, especially if that lasted for a long while.

There are almost infinite possibilities on the nature of a deity, so one cannot limit themselves to the ones described by humans. It's also possible that deities are not immortal. Maybe one did exist, and doesn't now.

Either way, it really does seem more logical, when comparing atheists, agnostics and theists, to use a linear graphic instead of a two dimensional one. At least if you are only pigeon holing a person into the five categories I mentioned.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:51   #41
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Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
It is funny to me that the Religious Forum is a place where believers have to constantly beat back aetheists.
I'd have figured it would be people of faith maturely discussing issues of faith.
I'm guessing if there were an Aetheist Forum, people of faith wouldn't bother with it and they'd wind up arguing over Bigfoot.

I think if there was one there are a few of the believers who would be posting there religiously.

Someone would have to be there to remind everyone that they're dhimmis and such.

The most contintious threads I've seen here where believers arguing over who's right about scripture and Baptist vs Catholic vs etc, etc. etc.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:04   #42
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Religious Issues

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CavDoc: "If you have to pretend that a person with a different opinion has an opinion other than his own in order to score points in an argument, you've forfeited any points that you pretended to have."
CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

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Last edited by Geko45; 01-11-2013 at 08:05..
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:06   #43
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
There are people on both sides that claim knowledge. Some have even claimed to prove it, through inductive reasoning, which basically boils down to convincing oneself using personal experiences and limited data, not really proving it.
...
I always figured claiming knowledge was good enough to be considered gnostic, whether theist or atheist, but I do see how that might not really be accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
...
But you are correct, people claim to know. Where is the convincing proof? It's more likely those that think they know for sure, really believe.
...
I don't think there is any proof, and since I think it extremely unlikely that any god does or has ever existed, I think it extremely unlikely that there will ever be any proof.

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...
I think it is possible to know that there is no god. I'm not exactly sure how that would be arrived at, but someone may someday develop a test for the presence of a deity, then travel back in time to the moment people think that all of what is now began and run the test. Unlikely in our lifetime.
...
I disagree that anyone could ever prove it if there is no god. Theists could just say their god is all powerful and wants people to have faith so he altered your test. You could never prove them wrong.

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...
I think it would be difficult to know either way, unless you were contacted by a deity, or there were an afterlife. You choke to death on a french fry, and suddenly you're having a conversation about how well you did on the planet, and you might know, especially if that lasted for a long while.

There are almost infinite possibilities on the nature of a deity, so one cannot limit themselves to the ones described by humans. It's also possible that deities are not immortal. Maybe one did exist, and doesn't now.
...
If I'm contacted by a god in this life, I'll likely think I've lost my mind and am hallucinating. If I meet a god in the afterlife, that doesn't do anyone still here any good.

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...
Either way, it really does seem more logical, when comparing atheists, agnostics and theists, to use a linear graphic instead of a two dimensional one. At least if you are only pigeon holing a person into the five categories I mentioned.
Seeing how you believe that nobody is gnostic, (which if it only includes people who actually know and not people who just claim to know I think you are likely correct,) I have a better understanding of your position and why you prefer theist, agnostic, atheist over the 4 positions in the graphic I so often post. But I still disagree.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:19   #44
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Originally Posted by Syclone538 View Post
I always figured claiming knowledge was good enough to be considered gnostic, whether theist or atheist, but I do see how that might not really be accurate.



I don't think there is any proof, and since I think it extremely unlikely that any god does or has ever existed, I think it extremely unlikely that there will ever be any proof.



I disagree that anyone could ever prove it if there is no god. Theists could just say their god is all powerful and wants people to have faith so he altered your test. You could never prove them wrong.



If I'm contacted by a god in this life, I'll likely think I've lost my mind and am hallucinating. If I meet a god in the afterlife, that doesn't do anyone still here any good.



Seeing how you believe that nobody is gnostic, (which if it only includes people who actually know and not people who just claim to know I think you are likely correct,) I have a better understanding of your position and why you prefer theist, agnostic, atheist over the 4 positions in the graphic I so often post. But I still disagree.
Fair enough, but one very small correction, I believe it is possible to know, but haven't met anyone with that knowledge. Just because I don't know of anyone that does know, doesn't mean they exist, or at least did exist at one time.

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Old 01-11-2013, 08:21   #45
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Religious Issues

Too much of anything, even a good thing is a bad thing. You've placed yourself in anarchy territory.

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Old 01-11-2013, 08:23   #46
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Too much of anything, even a good thing is a bad thing. You've placed yourself in anarchy territory.

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Old 01-11-2013, 08:31   #47
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Try this and see where you really land.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Your choice if you want to share results or not.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:32   #48
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Science is completely different than religion. We scientists rely on experiment and evidence. Religion doesn't. It relies on faith. (snd fairy tales)

Two different animals. I'll stick with science.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:35   #49
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Try this and see where you really land.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Your choice if you want to share results or not.
Oh I don't disagree, total anarchy is not a good thing. I was just surprised that you took such an obvious jest seriously.

Your test looks interesting. I'll give it a try when I have a bit more time.
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:46   #50
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Try this and see where you really land.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Your choice if you want to share results or not.
Way off topic, but I do find these interesting.

I figure I should be a little lower and to the left from where it put me. I didn't like the wording of the questions, and no I don't know/care answer available.

Religious Issues
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The constitution is not, nor was it meant to be absolutely literal.
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