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Old 01-11-2013, 08:51   #41
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Originally Posted by GLWyandotte View Post
It is funny to me that the Religious Forum is a place where believers have to constantly beat back aetheists.
I'd have figured it would be people of faith maturely discussing issues of faith.
I'm guessing if there were an Aetheist Forum, people of faith wouldn't bother with it and they'd wind up arguing over Bigfoot.

I think if there was one there are a few of the believers who would be posting there religiously.

Someone would have to be there to remind everyone that they're dhimmis and such.

The most contintious threads I've seen here where believers arguing over who's right about scripture and Baptist vs Catholic vs etc, etc. etc.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:04   #42
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Religious Issues

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Old 01-11-2013, 09:06   #43
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There are people on both sides that claim knowledge. Some have even claimed to prove it, through inductive reasoning, which basically boils down to convincing oneself using personal experiences and limited data, not really proving it.
...
I always figured claiming knowledge was good enough to be considered gnostic, whether theist or atheist, but I do see how that might not really be accurate.

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...
But you are correct, people claim to know. Where is the convincing proof? It's more likely those that think they know for sure, really believe.
...
I don't think there is any proof, and since I think it extremely unlikely that any god does or has ever existed, I think it extremely unlikely that there will ever be any proof.

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...
I think it is possible to know that there is no god. I'm not exactly sure how that would be arrived at, but someone may someday develop a test for the presence of a deity, then travel back in time to the moment people think that all of what is now began and run the test. Unlikely in our lifetime.
...
I disagree that anyone could ever prove it if there is no god. Theists could just say their god is all powerful and wants people to have faith so he altered your test. You could never prove them wrong.

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...
I think it would be difficult to know either way, unless you were contacted by a deity, or there were an afterlife. You choke to death on a french fry, and suddenly you're having a conversation about how well you did on the planet, and you might know, especially if that lasted for a long while.

There are almost infinite possibilities on the nature of a deity, so one cannot limit themselves to the ones described by humans. It's also possible that deities are not immortal. Maybe one did exist, and doesn't now.
...
If I'm contacted by a god in this life, I'll likely think I've lost my mind and am hallucinating. If I meet a god in the afterlife, that doesn't do anyone still here any good.

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...
Either way, it really does seem more logical, when comparing atheists, agnostics and theists, to use a linear graphic instead of a two dimensional one. At least if you are only pigeon holing a person into the five categories I mentioned.
Seeing how you believe that nobody is gnostic, (which if it only includes people who actually know and not people who just claim to know I think you are likely correct,) I have a better understanding of your position and why you prefer theist, agnostic, atheist over the 4 positions in the graphic I so often post. But I still disagree.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:19   #44
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I always figured claiming knowledge was good enough to be considered gnostic, whether theist or atheist, but I do see how that might not really be accurate.



I don't think there is any proof, and since I think it extremely unlikely that any god does or has ever existed, I think it extremely unlikely that there will ever be any proof.



I disagree that anyone could ever prove it if there is no god. Theists could just say their god is all powerful and wants people to have faith so he altered your test. You could never prove them wrong.



If I'm contacted by a god in this life, I'll likely think I've lost my mind and am hallucinating. If I meet a god in the afterlife, that doesn't do anyone still here any good.



Seeing how you believe that nobody is gnostic, (which if it only includes people who actually know and not people who just claim to know I think you are likely correct,) I have a better understanding of your position and why you prefer theist, agnostic, atheist over the 4 positions in the graphic I so often post. But I still disagree.
Fair enough, but one very small correction, I believe it is possible to know, but haven't met anyone with that knowledge. Just because I don't know of anyone that does know, doesn't mean they exist, or at least did exist at one time.

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Old 01-11-2013, 09:21   #45
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Religious Issues

Too much of anything, even a good thing is a bad thing. You've placed yourself in anarchy territory.

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Old 01-11-2013, 09:23   #46
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Too much of anything, even a good thing is a bad thing. You've placed yourself in anarchy territory.

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Old 01-11-2013, 09:31   #47
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Try this and see where you really land.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Your choice if you want to share results or not.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:32   #48
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Science is completely different than religion. We scientists rely on experiment and evidence. Religion doesn't. It relies on faith. (snd fairy tales)

Two different animals. I'll stick with science.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:35   #49
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Try this and see where you really land.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Your choice if you want to share results or not.
Oh I don't disagree, total anarchy is not a good thing. I was just surprised that you took such an obvious jest seriously.

Your test looks interesting. I'll give it a try when I have a bit more time.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:46   #50
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Try this and see where you really land.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Your choice if you want to share results or not.
Way off topic, but I do find these interesting.

I figure I should be a little lower and to the left from where it put me. I didn't like the wording of the questions, and no I don't know/care answer available.

Religious Issues
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:46   #51
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Oh I don't disagree, total anarchy is not a good thing. I was just surprised that you took such an obvious jest seriously.

Your test looks interesting. I'll give it a try when I have a bit more time.
Eh? You shouldn't be surprised if I have a hard time telling when you are joking. It's no big.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:47   #52
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Way off topic, but I do find these interesting.

I figure I should be a little lower and to the left from where it put me. I didn't like the wording of the questions, and no I don't know/care answer available.

Religious Issues
Obviously, it's only a gross estimation.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:39   #53
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Not quite as far as I'd place myself, but about in the area I figured.

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Old 01-11-2013, 11:11   #54
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Science is completely different than religion. We scientists rely on experiment and evidence. Religion doesn't. It relies on faith. (snd fairy tales)

Two different animals. I'll stick with science.
Nah uh! The bible says that the bible is right, and that anyone who disagrees or claims to have other knowledge is wrong. The bible says it plain as day. In your face science!
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Old 01-13-2013, 20:58   #55
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Nah uh! The bible says that the bible is right, and that anyone who disagrees or claims to have other knowledge is wrong. The bible says it plain as day. In your face science!
What evidence do you have to claim there is no god?

A pure scientist would simply ignore the claim that there is a god until there is sufficient evidence to offer an opinion one way or the other.

Some, well, many around here actually, upon hearing the claims based on faith of others, made a leap of faith in the opposite direction to oppose them.

It is an odd predicament. Opposing faith with faith. It's a lot like competing religions, or maybe even a lot more than just a lot like?

Just an observation.
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Old 01-13-2013, 23:16   #56
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What evidence do you have to claim there is no god?
Your own proof of the negative nonsense suggests that if there is no evidence that the negative is true. There is no verifiable evidence there ever has been or is a God. No fossil records or angels or demons. No evidence whatsoever that high order creatures love to be 900 years old. Most certainly no evidence that any creatures are immortal. No evidence that men can walk on water, turn water into wine, perform miracles blah blah blah. So it must be true that there is no God.

Now... I don't think that really proves anything substantially. But what I do think it suggests is that at current there is no reason whatsoever to assume there ever was or is a God since no evidence exists to substantiate such a claim.

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A pure scientist would simply ignore the claim that there is a god until there is sufficient evidence to offer an opinion one way or the other.
Well I am no scientist that's for sure. But I live my life without the assumption there is a God because there is no evidence that there is one. NOW what I do know is that the mythology in the Bible and Koran are no more true than Ancient Greek Mythology or Nordic Mythology. That is something we can know.

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Some, well, many around here actually, upon hearing the claims based on faith of others, made a leap of faith in the opposite direction to oppose them.

It is an odd predicament. Opposing faith with faith. It's a lot like competing religions, or maybe even a lot more than just a lot like?

Just an observation.
Now you're just trolling again. I won't engage you on this.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:22   #57
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Try this and see where you really land.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Your choice if you want to share results or not.
Seems more accurate than most. The others PCs push me a bit further to the right than I'm comfortable with

Religious Issues

The funniest thing about that test is how close together Obama and Romney are. One small square is the difference between scum of the earth and good old boy around here.

Religious Issues

BTW Doc, I took the liberty of answering all the questions again the way I felt the Phelps clan would collectively answer them based on their press releases and interviews they've done. I tried to be more than fair in answering how traditional Democrats would answer on questions that the Phelps' hadn't much addressed. I think that's what accounts for "him" landing so close to the middle, yet still on the right.

Religious Issues

Care to answer the questions again to try to push them further left?

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Old 01-14-2013, 08:19   #58
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Seems more accurate than most. The others PCs push me a bit further to the right than I'm comfortable with

Religious Issues

The funniest thing about that test is how close together Obama and Romney are. One small square is the difference between scum of the earth and good old boy around here.

Religious Issues

BTW Doc, I took the liberty of answering all the questions again the way I felt the Phelps clan would collectively answer them based on their press releases and interviews they've done. I tried to be more than fair in answering how traditional Democrats would answer on questions that the Phelps' hadn't much addressed. I think that's what accounts for "him" landing so close to the middle, yet still on the right.

Religious Issues

Care to answer the questions again to try to push them further left?

Obviously, guessing how others would answer is far from accurate. Anyone who believes Barry is farther right than I am is either incompetent or deceitful. And your exercise met your preconceived expectations, not too surprising that you got the result you desperately have been wishing for.

There are quite a few people that believe the WBC is a business, not a church. That they don't believe what they are saying, and very carefully say it in such a way that protects them legally. But who knows for sure what is in a man's mind other than himself. We do know that Phelps and You endorsed Obama. Phelps is under that large democrat tent either way. He's on your team. Maybe you can get tickets and hang out with him at the inauguration?
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:21   #59
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I don't really care for the way some of the questions were worded. I would have placed myself further down, but whatever.
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Old 01-14-2013, 17:35   #60
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Huh. I figured I'd be a little lower right than that.
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