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Old 01-21-2013, 17:08   #1
CarryTexas
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TX - Signage

Don’t you just love the ignorance of some property owners? This is at the office building where my doctor’s office is. Thankfully, I don’t need to go there very often…

If you're going to go through the trouble of putting up a sign, at least get it right!

Carry Issues

Those that don't know the sign should look like this:

Carry Issues
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Old 01-21-2013, 18:09   #2
railfancwb
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I think most businesses with no guns signs don't care about the law. They are just playing CYA or gotcha with tiny inaccurate signs placed in inconspicuous locations.


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Old 01-21-2013, 18:25   #3
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Yep. I don't see them that way much but it doesn't surprise me.

Last time I saw my doc we talked guns and CHL stuff. Great doc.

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Old 01-21-2013, 19:06   #4
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What they don't know.... doesn't stop us! I carried at my job for a long time, till they got the right sign.....now I am a sitting duck..just like everyone else.
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Old 01-21-2013, 19:10   #5
MrMurphy
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Actually, neither of those signs is correct.

Has to be the right size, shape, COLOR and everything.
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Old 01-21-2013, 19:32   #6
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That posted sign should be a real disappointment to any gangster wish to rob that office for drugs and cash at gun point.

/sarcasm.
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Old 01-21-2013, 19:38   #7
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I'm my doctor's firearms instructor....
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Old 01-21-2013, 20:45   #8
RJ's Guns
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Originally Posted by RGbiker View Post
That posted sign should be a real disappointment to any gangster wish to rob that office for drugs and cash at gun point.

/sarcasm.
The "gangster" would not dare enter anywhere, armed with a firearm, that such a sign is posted.

We do not need gun control, all that is needed is more signs saying that firearms are prohibited on the premises.

RJ

Last edited by RJ's Guns; 01-21-2013 at 20:46..
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Old 01-21-2013, 20:46   #9
xArcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMurphy View Post
Actually, neither of those signs is correct.

Has to be the right size, shape, COLOR and everything.
COLOR is not specified.

(3) “Written communication” means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun”; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:51   #10
Bill Lumberg
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Ignorant would be carrying there on a permit. It's not ignorant for a property owner to post their wishes regarding the use of their property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarryTexas View Post
Don’t you just love the ignorance of some property owners? This is at the office building where my doctor’s office is. Thankfully, I don’t need to go there very often…

If you're going to go through the trouble of putting up a sign, at least get it right!

Carry Issues

Those that don't know the sign should look like this:

Carry Issues
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:57   #11
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If this was posted in Michigan you would have to open carry because OC is not illegal.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:57   #12
Lord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarryTexas View Post
Don’t you just love the ignorance of some property owners? This is at the office building where my doctor’s office is. Thankfully, I don’t need to go there very often…

If you're going to go through the trouble of putting up a sign, at least get it right!

Carry Issues

Those that don't know the sign should look like this:

Carry Issues
This is where you have to use caution. one thing you said was Doctor's Office... is that office building considered part of a hospital either physically, or through affiliation?

PC §30.06 (e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a)

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.

(b) A license holder commits an of fense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;

I will concede that the law seems to be flip flopping from year to year. One year they're not required to post 30.06 at hospital entrances, the next year they are required to post, then back to not required etc.

I side with you on this.... if it's not clear that the building is not considered part of the hospital, I would walk right past that sign as if it didn't exist since it does not conform to the requirements of 30.06 specifically as required by law.

That being said, I might have to find a different doctor
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:02   #13
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Originally Posted by G36shooter View Post
If this was posted in Michigan you would have to open carry because OC is not illegal.
Licensed CCW is not illegal in TX... we just have a very specific law when it comes to prohibiting CHL holders from carrying.

Specifically, including in the whole set of laws used for CHL's, 30.06 identifies in very specific language what the premises must do in order to effectively ban CHL holders from carrying there, and the sign above is what is required. it must be clearly posted, it must have a minimum of 1" block style letters, it must be in contrasting colors, the wording must be PRECISE (there can't even be a missing period), and it MUST appear in English AND Spanish. Any error in the signage means the sign is moot.
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Last edited by Lord; 01-22-2013 at 12:03..
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:17   #14
Ryobi
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This.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg View Post
Ignorant would be carrying there on a permit. It's not ignorant for a property owner to post their wishes regarding the use of their property.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:33   #15
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Originally Posted by Lord View Post
This is where you have to use caution. one thing you said was Doctor's Office... is that office building considered part of a hospital either physically, or through affiliation?

PC §30.06 (e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a)

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(b) A license holder commits an of fense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
You forgot to keep posting the rest of 46.035. Current law says "(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06."

Since the above posted sign is not a legal 30.06 sign it does not matter if it was attached to a hospital.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:55   #16
CarryTexas
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Originally Posted by Lord View Post
This is where you have to use caution. one thing you said was Doctor's Office... is that office building considered part of a hospital either physically, or through affiliation?
This is a standard office building and not a medical complex or hospital.
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Old 01-22-2013, 18:12   #17
Lord
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Since the above posted sign is not a legal 30.06 sign it does not matter if it was attached to a hospital.
I don't think hospitals need to post anymore... I believe they're back in the do not carry list.
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Last edited by Lord; 01-22-2013 at 21:08..
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Old 01-22-2013, 18:20   #18
Naptown34
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I like the 30.06 irony of the code.
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Old 01-22-2013, 21:08   #19
Lord
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Originally Posted by CarryTexas View Post
This is a standard office building and not a medical complex or hospital.
then I would have done exactly what you did. I would have disregarded and walked right past it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 18:53   #20
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Originally Posted by Lord View Post
Licensed CCW is not illegal in TX... we just have a very specific law when it comes to prohibiting CHL holders from carrying.

Specifically, including in the whole set of laws used for CHL's, 30.06 identifies in very specific language what the premises must do in order to effectively ban CHL holders from carrying there, and the sign above is what is required. it must be clearly posted, it must have a minimum of 1" block style letters, it must be in contrasting colors, the wording must be PRECISE (there can't even be a missing period), and it MUST appear in English AND Spanish. Any error in the signage means the sign is moot.
Understood, and I know that TX does not allow for the open carry of handguns for permit holders. (boycott Groupon)
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