Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-14-2013, 23:01   #1
BenKeith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 125
Looking for help with misfires in G20 Gen3

From time to time I've had a bullet misfire in my 10mm. I'm talking maybe three times over two years and almost four thousand rounds. Well, today it did it three times. The very first clip, it only fired every other bullet for the first five. When I eject the bullet and look at them, they all have had a lite firing pin strike way off center, near the edge of the primer. After shooting that clip, I put them back in and all three shot, no problem.

The gun is well cleaned each time I use it and those were the very first rounds through it after being cleaned.

All my bullets are reloads and those today were, Star Line Brass, 165 gr Montana Golds, OAL 1.250", 11.8 grains of Blue Dot and a 20 pound spring and Lone Wolf 6" barrel. I don't remember which barrel the other three times but I had saved those bullets and they have that same way off center strike.

It's almost like the slide is not fully closing and locking but the firing pin is being released.

Has anyone seen this and have any suggestions on what's causing it. I know the first response will say it's the reloads, but I don't agree. It's done this with two 135gr plated, one 180 grain Golden Saber and now these three. The are properly crimped and why would one in a thousand cause the problem if the reloads.
BenKeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 23:14   #2
ThinkMud
Senior Member
 
ThinkMud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 334
Do you resize the brass? My g20 bulges out the brass pretty bad.

Sounds like its not going into battery fully. Could just need a new recoil spring. If you have 4k rounds through it, I'd definitely replace the guiderod and recoil spring. Very inexpensive part to replace and rule out.

Good luck and keep us posted!
__________________
“There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights.” -Marine General Smedley Butler.

-Semper Fi
ThinkMud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 00:04   #3
bentbiker
NRA Member
 
bentbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 4,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenKeith View Post
The very first clip, it only fired every other bullet for the first five.
If the cartridges that fired were the ones that chambered when you racked the slide by hand, and the cartridges that didn't fire chambered after a fired shot, that sounds like the slide is not fully cycling after a fired round. The first thing I'd do to gain more information would be to try a couple boxes of commercial ammo.

Questions:
Did you check your rounds to see if they slide easily into your barrel -- no tight fit?
What happens with the Glock barrel?
bentbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 10:33   #4
BenKeith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 125
I don't remember which barrel the previous ones were. I mostly practice with the LW barrel because it being fully support makes it a little easier on the brass, but I do use the Glock barrel from time to time. Just to make sure the POI is still good. With the LW barrel, POI changes about five inches.

All brass is fully resized and yes it does drop easily into the chamber with no problem, I do random checks of that everytime I load a batch. I did not varify case length to make sure they were not a little long, but seems they would not have chambered and shot fine the second time.

That spring was a new Wolff Spring and their steel guide. I normally use their 22 pound spring for practice, but didn't have it with me when I changed barrels so I used the 20. I always keep the Glock barrel and factory spring in the for carry. That was the first time that spring had ever been used. After those first three, it shot the rest of the 100 practice rounds with no problem.
BenKeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 10:52   #5
Arc Angel
Deus Vult!
 
Arc Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Penn's Woods
Posts: 10,956
Blog Entries: 55
Tell me what the part number is that's stamped on the cruciform of your trigger bar? If it says something like, '4256' STOP using that G-20 immediately.

Look at the nose on your striker (FP). Do you see any evidence of scraping or galling? Are the, 'pass-through' and safety grooves clearly delineated? What kind of condition is your striker (FP) safety in, too?



NOTE: 'Cases that are a little long' are usually evidenced by increased ignition pressure; and are, otherwise, invisible to the person shooting the gun. (Kudos on using the word, 'clip', and getting away with it! GT seems to be changing for the better; or, perhaps, we're all just getting more sophisticated!)

Last edited by Arc Angel; 01-15-2013 at 10:59..
Arc Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 19:28   #6
BenKeith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 125
OK, I'm not that familiar with all the names for all the parts in the thing but I assume the part you are refering to does have the number 4256-1 stamped on it. Now What??

Now, this is the G20SF if that matters.

I also pulled the slide appart and everything looks good with it.

Last edited by BenKeith; 01-15-2013 at 19:42..
BenKeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 08:37   #7
bucksnort06
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 74
[QUOTE=Arc Angel;19866679]Tell me what the part number is that's stamped on the cruciform of your trigger bar? If it says something like, '4256' STOP using that G-20 immediately.

My gen2 glock 20 reads '4256' and my new gen3 glock20SF reads '4256-02'. Not sure what the difference is
bucksnort06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 09:03   #8
Arc Angel
Deus Vult!
 
Arc Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Penn's Woods
Posts: 10,956
Blog Entries: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenKeith View Post
OK, I'm not that familiar with all the names for all the parts in the thing but I assume the part you are refering to does have the number 4256-1 stamped on it. Now What?? Now, this is the G20SF if that matters. I also pulled the slide appart and everything looks good with it.
'4256-1', or more recently, '4256-2' are the correct replacement trigger bars that should be in all G21/G20 Glocks.

Your pistol shows signs of not fully returning to battery. In a Glock that's not a good thing; and, in my experience, is a precursor to a, 'kaBoom! event'. In my original G-21's the safety cam on the trigger bar used to impact with the striker safety button head, and prevent the slide from fully closing. This would happen as much as 5 to 8% of the time. It always slowed the slide down while closing, too.

If your trigger bar is up-to-date and there are (1) no signs of galling or rubbing on the nose of your striker, and (2) your striker safety (and that little spring that sits behind it) is, also, unmarked then, ....... it has to be the ammunition that is preventing you slide from fully returning to battery. (If it were the slide rails, or movement, you'd notice the resistance while hand-cycling.)

The fact that you use the same (Wolff) recoil guide rod and spring that I do should, actually, improve the situation for you. This is as much as I can offer via the Internet. I hope you get things figured out, and post the answer when you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Tell me what the part number is that's stamped on the cruciform of your trigger bar? If it says something like, '4256' STOP using that G-20 immediately.
My gen2 glock 20 reads '4256' and my new gen3 glock20SF reads '4256-02'. Not sure what the difference is?

Your second generation G-20 shouldn't be using that trigger bar. Call Smyrna and ask for one of their free replacement trigger bars. Check your 2nd gen. striker and striker safety for excessive wear, too. If you see any, ask for some more (free) replacement parts.
Arc Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 11:03   #9
BenKeith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 125
Thanks, mine is only a two year old Gen3. I might order a -2 bar and see what that does. I see a very slight rub on where the slide is rubbing it but I have a hard time believing it's enough to cause my problem. I will also try adding a slight amount more crimp, to make sure they are not binding going it.

I know Glock would laugh if I called them and tell them I'm having a problem with one of their G20s, but I was using a Lone Wolf barrel, Wolff spring and guide, and shooting reloads, I could just hear them now.
BenKeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 07:03   #10
Arc Angel
Deus Vult!
 
Arc Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Penn's Woods
Posts: 10,956
Blog Entries: 55
Mysterious Double-Tap!




(Good for post count!)

Last edited by Arc Angel; 01-17-2013 at 07:10..
Arc Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 07:05   #11
Arc Angel
Deus Vult!
 
Arc Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Penn's Woods
Posts: 10,956
Blog Entries: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenKeith View Post
Thanks, mine is only a two year old Gen3. I might order a -2 bar and see what that does. I see a very slight rub on where the slide is rubbing it but I have a hard time believing it's enough to cause my problem. I will also try adding a slight amount more crimp, to make sure they are not binding going it. .......
Rubbing against what? Are you're talking about the, 'bump' on the side of the striker safety riser cam? If so, that might be enough to cause this sort of intermittent (typical Glock) problem. I ain't got no rub marks around any of mine. Why don't you try polishing the top of the bump. All a, '-2' bar is going to do for you is increase your trigger pull (and make your Glock trigger less likely to, 'stack').

I've got one other suggestion for ya: If you don't know how to do the work yourself, contact Lone Wolf and ask them to, 'throat' and slightly open up the chamber I.D. for you. 'Why'? Because LWD chambers are notoriously tight; and this might be contributing to the intermittent failure to return-to-battery problem you're experiencing.
Arc Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 10:41   #12
BMiracletx
Senior Member
 
BMiracletx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Abilene, TX
Posts: 607
I know with my Lone Wolf 10mm barrel, I have to watch OAL carefully with some bullets.

Has anyone mentioned a weak striker spring or dirty striker channel? How many rounds through the gun? This would cause light strikes, but the fact that they are off center still is of concern for FTRTB.
BMiracletx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 00:18   #13
ThinkMud
Senior Member
 
ThinkMud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 334
I don't have the "-1" or "-2" on my gen 3s. But no malfunctions yet. Should I replace anyway?? 20sf and 30sf is all I have left?
__________________
“There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights.” -Marine General Smedley Butler.

-Semper Fi

Last edited by ThinkMud; 01-18-2013 at 00:18..
ThinkMud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 07:50   #14
Arc Angel
Deus Vult!
 
Arc Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Penn's Woods
Posts: 10,956
Blog Entries: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMiracletx View Post
I know with my Lone Wolf 10mm barrel, I have to watch OAL carefully with some bullets.

Has anyone mentioned a weak striker spring or dirty striker channel? How many rounds through the gun? This would cause light strikes, but the fact that they are off center still is of concern for FTRTB.
Someday, maybe, I'll understand, 'Why' people use 4# striker springs? These lightweight springs never seem to be anything but trouble. Me? I prefer to, 'learn the trigger' instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkMud View Post
I don't have the "-1" or "-2" on my gen 3s. But no malfunctions yet. Should I replace anyway?? 20sf and 30sf is all I have left?
Well, ....... apparently Glock, Smyrna thinks so.

Glock offers this upgrade for free; AND, the Portland Police Bureau and the Georgia State Patrol DID file a joint lawsuit against Glock over the original #4256 trigger bars; but, I'll let you make the final decision for yourself.

(Admittedly, 'like all things Glock' SOME of the #4256 trigger bars worked well; it's just that too many of them did NOT.)

Last edited by Arc Angel; 01-18-2013 at 07:53..
Arc Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 07:55   #15
BMiracletx
Senior Member
 
BMiracletx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Abilene, TX
Posts: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Someday, maybe, I'll understand, 'Why' people use 4# striker springs? These lightweight springs never seem to be anything but trouble. Me? I prefer to, 'learn the trigger' instead.
Agreed... I only use reduced power in "range-only" guns. My pig hunting 10mm and my carry guns are all factory weight or heavier on striker springs. I don't want to have to worry about light strikes when being charged by a boar or if some thug ever thinks I would be an easy victim...

Last edited by BMiracletx; 01-18-2013 at 07:56..
BMiracletx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 08:33   #16
ThinkMud
Senior Member
 
ThinkMud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Someday, maybe, I'll understand, 'Why' people use 4# striker springs? These lightweight springs never seem to be anything but trouble. Me? I prefer to, 'learn the trigger' instead.



Well, ....... apparently Glock, Smyrna thinks so.

Glock offers this upgrade for free; AND, the Portland Police Bureau and the Georgia State Patrol DID file a joint lawsuit against Glock over the original #4256 trigger bars; but, I'll let you make the final decision for yourself.

(Admittedly, 'like all things Glock' SOME of the #4256 trigger bars worked well; it's just that too many of them did NOT.)
Holy crap, did not know that! I'll call them today.
__________________
“There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights.” -Marine General Smedley Butler.

-Semper Fi
ThinkMud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 09:04   #17
Arc Angel
Deus Vult!
 
Arc Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Penn's Woods
Posts: 10,956
Blog Entries: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMiracletx View Post
Agreed... I only use reduced power in "range-only" guns. My pig hunting 10mm and my carry guns are all factory weight or heavier on striker springs. I don't want to have to worry about light strikes when being charged by a boar or if some thug ever thinks I would be an easy victim...
I use Wolff Gunsprings, '+ power' 6# trigger AND striker springs in all of my Glocks (guaranteed primer ignition and noticeably crisper trigger reset).

Mud, I got two free #4256-1 trigger bars from Smyrna right after they settled the lawsuit. I don't know, for certain, but I believe the, '- 2' bars are even less prone to, 'stacking' than the, '- 1' bars. (A little heavier on the trigger pull, too.)
Arc Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 10:13   #18
SARDG
Senior Member
 
SARDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida's Left Coast
Posts: 7,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenKeith View Post
From time to time I've had a bullet misfire in my 10mm. I'm talking maybe three times over two years and almost four thousand rounds. Well, today it did it three times. The very first clip, it only fired every other bullet for the first five. When I eject the bullet and look at them, they all have had a lite firing pin strike way off center, near the edge of the primer. After shooting that clip, I put them back in and all three shot, no problem...
High primers in a cartridge won't allow the gun to go fully into battery and could show an off-center strike. Putting them back in the magazine and attempting to fire them again, and with success, would also indicate a high primer. The first strike seats the primer, the second strike works.

Check your press and your stroke and your finished ammo to be sure that primer-seat process is happening correctly. Also - you need to check your OAL every now and again if you don't now.

Last edited by SARDG; 01-18-2013 at 11:05.. Reason: typo
SARDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 18:33   #19
franco4027
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12
have you disassembled the slide? If you are not careful the spring on the firing pin block and get turned on its side and not allow the plunger to move. The best way to check is look at the primer on the dud. if it has no dent in it this is most likely the problem. If it is a light strike put a new spring in it. In fact I would order a new striker and spring. Couldnt hurt to have an extra and they are cheap.

posted using [URL=http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/]Outdoor Hub Campfire[/URL]
franco4027 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 20:10   #20
SARDG
Senior Member
 
SARDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida's Left Coast
Posts: 7,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by franco4027 View Post
have you disassembled the slide? If you are not careful the spring on the firing pin block and get turned on its side and not allow the plunger to move. The best way to check is look at the primer on the dud. if it has no dent in it this is most likely the problem. If it is a light strike put a new spring in it. In fact I would order a new striker and spring. Couldnt hurt to have an extra and they are cheap.
Some of your parts terms are cryptic, but the OP's symptoms don't align with your presumed suggestions.

The firing pin safety spring on its side has caused doubles in guns because the firing pin tends to flop around I suppose. But even if the FP safety didn't move and the FP didn't move, the OP said that he has a high primer strike when it initially misfires - not a light, or no strike. That's an out of battery strike where the barrel wasn't locked up completely. At any rate, he said he took the slide apart and checked, so we can move on from the FP safety spring.

In 4 thousand rounds, the FP spring should be like new and the FP itself be like newer. FPs aren't cheap ($35 Armorer's cost) so ordering an extra doesn't make good economic sense for a part that never normally fails.

I'd still look for high primers on the reloads. Too many reloaders don't know how to successfully analyze brass or other problems with their non-functioning rounds but the first mis-strike of the primer could conceivably 'seat' the primer for the next strike, which will work - and did.

I would at least take this possibility out of the equation before throwing money at gun parts. People are quick to blame the gun, when ammo and operator are the usual two main culprits.
SARDG is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:43.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 464
113 Members
351 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31