GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-16-2013, 18:04   #1
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 44,117
Blog Entries: 64
The President: We owe law enforcement the tools they need to keep us safe

Here is what he proposing.
GIVE LAW ENFORCEMENT ADDITIONAL TOOLS TO PREVENT AND PROSECUTE GUN CRIME: We owe law enforcement the tools they need to keep us safe. The President will:
o Call for Congress to pass the Administration’s $4 billion proposal to help communities keep 15,000 cops on the street.

o Call for Congress to pass new gun trafficking laws, which will impose serious penalties on those who help get guns into the hands of criminals.

o Take executive action to enhance gun tracing data by requiring federal law enforcement to trace all recovered guns.

o Propose regulations that will enable law enforcement to run complete background checks before returning seized firearms

o Nominate, and call for Congress to confirm, a director for the ATF.

o Call for Congress to remove restrictions that require ATF to authorize importation of dangerous weapons simply because of their age.

o Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

o Direct the Department of Justice to analyze information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.

o Provide effective training for state and local law enforcement, first responders, and school officials on how to handle active shooter situations.
What does all that mean?

Is more needed to be effective?

Is some of that wasted time, energy and money?

Is any Federal "help" really wanted? That may be too loaded of a question...

If non-LE GT members want to ask questions, serious questions, please do. However, confiscation, donuts, JBT comments are off the table.

There'll be zero tolerance for trolling. Doing so will earn reward-points, not the good kind.

Thanks
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921

Last edited by RussP; 01-16-2013 at 18:04..
RussP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 19:02   #2
razdog76
Heavy Mettle
 
razdog76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,136
I saw an article in the local paper a couple of days ago which was likely from the AP. It stated that of 80,000 denied gun purchases only 44 were prosecuted last year. Of course some were due to clerical errors. Still, I figure it would be more likely for the offender to trip on the way out, than be prosecuted. Why is that? It seems even more interesting that sales through FFL holders account for roughly 40% of firearms sales.

If these figures are true, makes me wonder what ATF has been doing in the last twenty years.

On the other hand, if the pinches were being made, where are the offenders going to be housed, what about the cost to incarcerate them?

Secondly, these mass shooting seem to be committed by mentally unstable people. Other than being adjudicated in a court of law, there is essentially no means to prevent a wackjob from legally acquiring a weapon.

Two days ago, I had a conversation with a lady about her 71 year old father. He is in the early stage of dementia. He is able to take care of his daily needs, but beginning to do the zany things that goes along with it such as inviting people he just met on the internet to stay with him, getting taken for Nigerian schemes, and blazing through the last of his retirement fund on ridiculous stuff. He has also always had a temper. He has now decided he wants to buy a gun, go through the training, and get a CCW permit. Essentially, other than trying to obtain control via probate court there is nothing the family can do to avert this looming problem.

Of these two issues, the mental health is by far more important to me. Perhaps it is because one of my duties is as a Crisis Intervention Team Deputy, and I get to interview the mentally unstable people, and often enough take them for an involuntary hospitalization. Most of the hospitals that treat psych problems have closed, and there is little funding to address these issues. So, what do you do with people that are marginally able to take care of themselves? Anyone who has worked corrections for a couple of years has watched the same people, with the same special needs keep getting into trouble.

The rest is superfluous to the problem.
__________________
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiron
'..You can lead an ass to facts, but you can't make them think...'

Last edited by razdog76; 01-16-2013 at 19:28..
razdog76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 19:13   #3
Morris
CLM Number
Charter Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: North of Seattle, South of Canada
Posts: 11,422


If his lips are moving when he talks about cops, he's lying.

Unless he's talking about his Big Sis boys and girls.
__________________
Neo-pagan, FORMER Libertarian, Cop, Gun Owner, Jewish Heritage - I'm the small talk at parties!

Certified Glock Armorer
Certified M&P Armorer

Say NO! to Washington I-594
Morris is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 19:16   #4
collim1
Shower Time!
 
collim1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 10,325
He's going after C&R's? Really? How many crimes are committed every year with antique Sharps rifles? He is simply looking for anything he can call a "loop hole" and offer an answer to it.
collim1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 19:56   #5
Trigger Finger
Senior Member
 
Trigger Finger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,161
I think the President is in a situation where he HAS to do something!!! Personally, I would like to see background checks and a 10 day waiting period, at least, for everyone buying a gun. The same as in California. I don't see how this would infringe on anyone's rights.

I don't see how very old weapons are any problem, How many crimes are committed by some one with a 1880 Springfield trapdoor carbine? For that matter, how many crimes are committed by a 50 caliber BMG rifle? I only know of two, total, accross the entire U.S.

Putting more police officers on the streets with proper training and background checks is very good, It should have been done years ago. But giving them frivolous jobs to do that really won't do anything to really curb crime is pointless!! I have handled gang related murders where gang members could not get a gun so they simply stabbed the rival gangster with a knife several times, another where they beat the guy senseless with a 2X4 and a base ball bat then set him on fire with gasoline!! However it might help to prevent things like 20 or 25 people being murdered in a 3 minuet attack at a school, unless perhaps a bomb is used.

I thought I heard Obama say on the news that we need to totally enforce the gun laws we already have and I am totally in favor of that. Whatever happened to "use a gun, go to prison"?

Overall it could have been much worse and I can live with it.
__________________
Land of the Free Because of the Brave!
It is easier to be critical than correct and most people tend to take the easy way!



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by Trigger Finger; 01-16-2013 at 20:04..
Trigger Finger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 20:00   #6
CAcop
Senior Member
 
CAcop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California
Posts: 21,667
15,000 new officers is less than one per LEA. Of course you know the big cities in blue states are going toget way more while departments in smaller cities are going to get jack.
__________________
I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
CAcop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 20:09   #7
Pete7072
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 102
He wants to fund cops? Add 1000 school resource officers? Too bad your 98000 schools short. Put your money where your mouth is. We have over 2000 laid off cops in NJ. And yes Im LEO
Pete7072 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 20:23   #8
Vigilant
Senior Member
 
Vigilant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Inside the Perimeter
Posts: 8,168
As Blue would say, our thief in chief is yet another classic example of a used adult diaper.

Oh, I forgot: it's for the children.
__________________
Illegitimi non carborundum
Vigilant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 20:26   #9
walkin' trails
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,595
I am certainly not opposed to funding to help some of these financially strapped state/local departments keep their officers on the payroll.

I do not understand what is mean by new gun trafficking laws. In some cases, a criminal obtains a firearm through a straw buyer, as was the case of the recent tragic shooting of firemen responding to a house fire. Neverthess I thought that was already illegal. I also seem to recall in the aftermath of Colombine a girlfriend of someone being culpable for obtaining a firearm and she didn't get charged.

I am not opposed to mandating background checks for all gun sales, but I don't see where any of that would have prevented any of the mayhem. I've heard rumors that Adam Lanza tried to by a gun the week before and got turned down. He resorted to killing mommy and stealing hers.

As far as data bases go, I realize that they sometimes help law enforcement trace a recovered firearm. On the other hand, if something was legal when I legally bought it, I don't really want anyone other than the factory warranty department keeping any records that I have it as long as I'm behaving in a responsible, legal manner.

Appointing an Obama chronie as ATF director will have no positive effect on the argument.

Banning C&R firearms importation? Since when did anyone use an M1 Garand or an 03A3 Springfield to commit an attrocity? Since when has anyone used an M1 Garand to commit garden variety homicide within US boundaries? Are XM15s, M16s and M16A1s coming up as eligible for import from Viet Nam?

They've been giving lip service about prosecuting gun crimes for years, but in reality? The NRA has been calling for that same thing for years, and it seems like the libs want look the other way just to spite them.

I also thought that most reported gun thefts, as long as the owner had the serial number got reported in NCIC. If not, its a pretty good idea to do. Then again, people don't record the serial numbers of their TVs or computers either, and that would make clearing a burglary case much easier for us also.

I believe that gun owners, including law enforcement must be more conscience about storing firearms when they're not being carried. How may cops lose guns when someone breaks into their cars, department or POV? How many people do not understand that a gun safe, while not the end-all, is generally the most secure way to store firearms? Taking responsibility for the things we can control is better than being forced to accept responsibility for the the things we should have.

Active shooter training? How are the feds going to make this better? I'm a fed and when I wanted to provide my people with active shooter training after Virginia Tech, I went to a local department SWAT. They gave us some great training! I need to go back for more because state/locals are most likely going to be the first reponders and are usually up to speed on what is current doctrine. What will Big Sis do besides scare kids? What expertise does DHS have over NTOA or other professional training associations?
__________________
Walkin' Trails
NRA Life
SAR
Firearms Instructor
walkin' trails is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 20:30   #10
Dukeboy01
Pretty Ladies!
 
Dukeboy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 2,440
Quote:
What does all that mean?

Is more needed to be effective?
The only thing that I think "more" might be more effective is to prosecute more Federal gun crimes. The Federal prosecutions for gun crimes have dropped dramatically under this administration.

Quote:
Is some of that wasted time, energy and money?
Yeah, probably.

Quote:
Is any Federal "help" really wanted? That may be too loaded of a question...
Unless they are going to pick up the prosecutions, all of the rest of it's window dresssing.
__________________
"You want it to be one way... but it's the other way." - Marlo Stanfield
Dukeboy01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 21:00   #11
Vigilant
Senior Member
 
Vigilant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Inside the Perimeter
Posts: 8,168
The cause of the Newtown shootings is plain and simple: That STUPID woman did not keep her guns properly secured. That should have been the only legislation to come of this: Secure your guns, or face at the very least a Misdemeanor charge. If the gun is used in any type of crime, guess what: You too are an accessory. That's all we needed. Not the usual political opportunism, capitalizing on the blood of innocents to further their sinister agenda.

I find myself pondering these days in part over what I would do if I ever see NATO troops on our streets. Sound far-fetched? Maybe not.
__________________
Illegitimi non carborundum
Vigilant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 21:22   #12
Booker
Senior Member
 
Booker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,149
What the Police need are faster cars! That way it'd only take them 10 minutes to get to a school shooting instead of 20 minutes!
Booker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 21:25   #13
Ohio Copper
Senior Member
 
Ohio Copper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: The Rust Belt.
Posts: 4,275
How about you finally fully staff the departments in my area?

I get in the car and go in service some nights and I'm already stacked 6 deep in calls.

We are so short handed in this area it's ridiculous.
Ohio Copper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 21:25   #14
razdog76
Heavy Mettle
 
razdog76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booker View Post
What the Police need are faster cars! That way it'd only take them 10 minutes to get to a school shooting instead of 20 minutes!
The new Taurus plain jane models have 20 more HP than the CVPI.
__________________
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiron
'..You can lead an ass to facts, but you can't make them think...'
razdog76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 21:28   #15
razdog76
Heavy Mettle
 
razdog76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
How about you finally fully staff the departments in my area?

I get in the car and go in service some nights and I'm already stacked 6 deep in calls.

We are so short handed in this area it's ridiculous.
F-yeah. My Ohio county has 688 square miles, and usually 4 Patrol Deputies on my shift. We added 6 rooks last Saturday, but have washed out about 75% in the last few years.
__________________
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiron
'..You can lead an ass to facts, but you can't make them think...'
razdog76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 21:44   #16
Cav
Senior Member
 
Cav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Great State of Texas
Posts: 2,252
I will say this, what the POTUS put out I agree with for the most. How it is implimented is where it could go bad.

Majority of the shootings and gun sucides I have dealt with, the people had mental issues and should not have owned guns.

I have taken cases for threats, where a person stated they wanted to kill an ex worker, they had a gun on order, there was no legal way to stop him from buying the gun as he passed the back ground check and we could not take legal action to stop a sale.

I have been in a few gun shops where policey were looking for wanted people who had plans to buy a gun, the police wanted a call if the suspect came in, but could not say "dont sell him a gun".

A violent domestic abuser will tend to be able to buy a gun, as he has not been convicted.

A local gun dealer sold a .50 cal to a strange person, they contacted the ATF. The person came in again to buy another .50 cal, the shop owner said he woud order it as the one on display was spoken for. They called the ATF and were told sell him another .50 cal. By the third .50 cal order the ATF sent agents, after the third sale and they lost track of the buyer who left the country.

So yes, there needs to be a real time, shared fed/local/medical background data base. The ATF and ICE are jokes and a waste of money. IMHO fire them all and let states have a shared data base and extra agents for the job, then let the FBI or DEA clean up the messes that cross state lines.

Some places need more police/resourse officers and dont have the funds.

I can live with the EO's that Obama wants right now.
__________________
We need more restrictions on the 1st Amendment and less on the 2nd Amendment.
Cav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 00:03   #17
Morris
CLM Number
Charter Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: North of Seattle, South of Canada
Posts: 11,422


Quote:
I can live with the EO's that Obama wants right now.
I can't because it's strictly theater of the absurd for the stupid. He would have had my interest and potential support if he had said, "Hey! Here's a novel idea! How about we enforce the laws already in effect. How about we get some lazy federal prosecutors willing to step up on gun crimes. How about we clean our house first before we tell everyone to clean theirs."

He parades children behind him yet how many people and children has been killed in Mexico because of guns people in his administration allowed to go out?
__________________
Neo-pagan, FORMER Libertarian, Cop, Gun Owner, Jewish Heritage - I'm the small talk at parties!

Certified Glock Armorer
Certified M&P Armorer

Say NO! to Washington I-594

Last edited by Morris; 01-17-2013 at 00:03..
Morris is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 00:13   #18
cowboywannabe
you savvy?
 
cowboywannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: on a planet near you
Posts: 21,332
ya hear that? he owes us.....i hope he starts with fast and furious.
__________________
with Sarah Jane, Leela, Romana, Nyssa, and Tegan.

Facts are no match against enthusiasm and ignorance...
cowboywannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 01:34   #19
Vigilant
Senior Member
 
Vigilant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Inside the Perimeter
Posts: 8,168
Exactly.
__________________
Illegitimi non carborundum
Vigilant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 06:36   #20
boomhower
Senior Member
 
boomhower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,296
Some money for active shooter training would be nice. We do have active shooter training every year but we can't afford force on force training. It's simply to expensive for the conversions and sim rounds.
boomhower is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 19:55.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,538
431 Members
1,107 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42