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Old 01-21-2013, 23:49   #41
skeeter7
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Scary stuff! Glad you are okay...
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Old 01-21-2013, 23:52   #42
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Originally Posted by 3.slow View Post
...I dump the charge into the primered case, immediately pour out and weigh the charge, pour back in the case, seat bullet. This is all on my Lee Single Stage press. Probably made and shot over 10,000 rounds with this method, never had a single issue.
10,000 rounds in how many years?
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Old 01-22-2013, 00:16   #43
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Originally Posted by 3.slow View Post
What changes do you plan on making to avoid double or half charges in the future?

I dump the charge into the primered case, immediately pour out and weigh the charge, pour back in the case, seat bullet. This is all on my Lee Single Stage press. Probably made and shot over 10,000 rounds with this method, never had a single issue.
You weigh every single charge, for every round? Damn, must take you 2 or 3 hours for every 100 rounds.

With a progressive, at least for pistol shooting.... you can eyeball how much powder is in the case. Just look at each one and you're good to go.

I'm closer to 50,000 rounds in just over 3 years, no squibs or double charges.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:53   #44
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Originally Posted by snowwdog View Post
im wondering how you got a double charge on a auto indexing press. I did have a situation this weekend as well. I loaded up 300 rounds with no changes on the press after loading 1200 previous rounds. My buddy started shooting and got a squib. We knocked out the bullet and he shot 3 more rounds that puffed and fizzled then another squib. We stopped and i pulled some bullets and they were way under charged. This is a dillion 650. I started throwing charges and they were low. Adjusted untill they were right and ran 5 or 6 rounds and then they were really high. Only thing i can see that may have happened was the powder clumped in the adjustment bar and then finally got knocked loose when i adjusted it. I did leave the powder measure with about 2" of powder in it for 2 weeks. It was a rainy 2 weeks and the humidity may have gotten high in the basement where i load. First time in 20+ years that has happened to me. I guess ill put my powder check back on the press.
I had an issue on my 650 with a couple of squibs. There is an old thread here about it. In short, teaching someone to load and I went to pull out something because he was doing well. I had stressed check every case for a charge and make sure it looks similar to the prior ones several times. We were using WSt so loft was good enough to see a missing or double charge.

At the range has a squib then another.

Went over the machine and found the nut bolt that ran through the bel crank on the powder measure had loosened up. Just enough that the white plastic cube would jump out of the powder bar and back in again.

Just something to check. Of it now was a lock nice new nut on it with a dot of locktite for good measure.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:41   #45
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Originally Posted by n2extrm View Post
I had an issue on my 650 with a couple of squibs.

Went over the machine and found the nut bolt that ran through the bel crank on the powder measure had loosened up. Just enough that the white plastic cube would jump out of the powder bar and back in again.

Just something to check. Of it now was a lock nice new nut on it with a dot of locktite for good measure.
That's interesting, I've loaded thousands of rounds with my Dillon Sq. Deal and never had any mechanical problems until last week. I had the same issue you did with the bolt coming loose on the bell crank. I ended up weighing that lot of 50 bullets and found one without powder. I guess that bolt loosening is a common problem with Dillons to watch out for.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:35   #46
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Originally Posted by 45ACP223 View Post
That's interesting, I've loaded thousands of rounds with my Dillon Sq. Deal and never had any mechanical problems until last week. I had the same issue you did with the bolt coming loose on the bell crank. I ended up weighing that lot of 50 bullets and found one without powder. I guess that bolt loosening is a common problem with Dillons to watch out for.
Do you have a nylon locking nut on that bolt? If not get one. I like to lube the power measure with graphite about every 500 rds. and also in doing so making sure all of the dies nuts and all other bolts and nuts are tight.
I found that doubling the nut does not work. Since I installed the nylon locking nut and now Dillon uses them on the powder measure. I have not had one come loose.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:23   #47
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If it was a squib, the slide would have to been manually racked and then shot. I don't think squib, though it would be hard to double charge on an autoindexing press I guess anything is possible.
This is the problem. Too many assume too much. You can get a squib & have the slide cycle if using light springs. You can have a powder issue on ANY progressive press, crap happens. It's why you have to be vigilant & not just be pulling the handle.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:30   #48
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Originally Posted by socal326 View Post
was that the "hornady lnl classic" or the "hornady lnl ap"? It looks like everyone has assumed it was the ap but i never saw the op say that.

I'm curious. Was there anything left in the barrel or did that last round actually go down range?
lnl ap
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:34   #49
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Hornady LNL

The only way to get a double charge on a LnL or 650 is operator error. I disagree with many when it comes to the safest way to use a progressive. In my experience the LESS you double check everything the LESS likely you are to have a issue. Some people say they check it every 20 rds for instance. That is not safer. Every time you stop your routine you just introduced the opportunity to screw it up that didn't exist before. So the fewer times you stop the process the better. It's important in this discussion to remember you ARE monitoring the powder drop visually and your eyeball/brain combo is able to notice when a powder charge doesn't look right. Besides that, don't stop but every 100 rds to fill the primer tube and then check the powder charge on the one case. BE DOUBLE SURE it has a charge and only one charge. Dump the 100 loaded rounds as well. Then if you have a issue you only have 100 rds that are suspect to deal with.

A unreliable press is a disaster waiting to happen because it introduces more opportunities for you to not reset the press right. That is likely what happened in your situation. Whenever you have a blockage, clear the press completely and start over. This is why I don't abide a press that has stoppages on a regular basis. It must be reliable. I am like a freaking dog on a bone with this.

Glad your OK, sorry about your issue.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:41   #50
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I am paranoid with my loading. I use a LNL AP as well. In station 4 I have the hornady powder check die. So I am always looking at that when I crank the handle to make sure it elevates the right amount, and then I still always visually check the powder level. Sure I could load faster, but I strive for loading safer and having this double check (powder check die, and visual check prior to seating bullet).

Glad to hear you didn't get seriously hurt. I love using Bullseye and TightGroup in my 45s... but carefully check!
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:42   #51
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Ouch! Thankfully you're okay though. We've all made mistakes, just some bigger than others.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:28   #52
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Call Glock and see what they have to say. Dont lie to them. They will have you send them the gun. They in turn will send it to Austria and there engineers will go over it with a fine tooth comb. Even people who think there Glock are clean. They will know that you were shooting lead even though you were using a KKM barrel.
Dont know 100%. But I think the LNL is the same as a Dillon that uses springs on the powder measure. If you raise the ram and the powder dumps then lower the platform a couple of inches then raise the platform again you just added a double charge. That is one of the many things that I like about the 650 with the fail safe system. It will not dump power again. You have to lower the platform all the way down. And by then the shell plate has rotated.
If you have a problem and pull the charged case out and put it back under the powder measure you will get a double charge. The best way is just dump that charge and start over.
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Old 01-22-2013, 15:03   #53
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This is one of the reasons I do NOT use powders that can be double-charged. Switch to a slower-burning powder that occupies substantially more than half the case.

That won't prevent squibs, but it WILL prevent double charges.
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Old 01-22-2013, 15:07   #54
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I have had 1 squib and it cycled the next round in just fine. Thankfully the RO yelled Seize Fire!
...ahem...it's Cease Fire, as in Stop Firing.
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Old 01-22-2013, 17:33   #55
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I don't think a squib followed by a healthy round would do that much damage. When Ruger introduced the P85, they demonstrated it by firing it with a bolt threaded into the bore to seal it off. They fired it repeatedly, each time cutting away part of the slide, until finally the slide cracked. They gun never had a catastrophic failure.

Bulged barrels, even case blowouts, are what you typically get with a squib incident.

I don't know if I've ever seen a failure as bad as this one on the internet, or in real life. Frankly, the OP is lucky to be alive. There have been incidents where extractors have injured/killed people on the line near a KB.
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Old 01-22-2013, 18:28   #56
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Originally Posted by jeffreybehr View Post
This is one of the reasons I do NOT use powders that can be double-charged. Switch to a slower-burning powder that occupies substantially more than half the case.

That won't prevent squibs, but it WILL prevent double charges.
And what will become of my powder puff loads from fast powders and heavy bullets? I don't load to save money (though it's a wonderful byproduct); I load to develop competition ammo that is soft-shooting and just makes PF.

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Old 01-22-2013, 18:37   #57
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...There have been incidents where extractors have injured/killed people on the line near a KB.
I was ROing a GSSF match earlier this month when, what appeared to be an over-charged round, developed a large bulge and near case-head separation blowing the extractor sideways right out of the gun across the bay. The shooter had some powder burns, but everything remained intact. The case was nickle, but allegedly only reloaded one time.
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Old 01-22-2013, 18:58   #58
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Go to Amazon and enter this:

American Weigh Scale Ac-650 Digital Pocket Gram Scale, Black, 650 G X 0.1 G

It's only $10.

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Old 01-22-2013, 19:01   #59
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Sorry. Buying a cheap low quality digital scale is never a solution to a KB issue.
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Old 01-22-2013, 19:02   #60
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Wow! Nasty. I agree with everyone else my best guess and only guess is a double charge. Thank God you weren't more seriously injured. Looking at the pics one thing jumped out at me and that is how well the slide on the Glock held together outside of the unsightly bulge on the right hand side and the small crack. At least the slide kept the explosion internalized.

Glad that you are OK other than the owie on your trigger finger.

Don't want to preach to the choir here folks but I can't stress enough how important a good pair of safety glasses are when shooting.

Fingers are one thing, eyes are a totally different matter.

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