Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-26-2013, 17:49   #61
Cavalry Doc
Platinum Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,194


Quote:
Originally Posted by omega48038 View Post
The whole ''fantastic things as evidence of God'' thing reminds me of a show I saw with some evangelist enthusiastically explaining to a totally enamored Kirk Cameron how the banana removed any doubt as to God's design. He's going on and on about how it fits perfectly in the human hand, how it's shaped to fit the human mouth, the incredibly convient easy-open packaging etc. etc.

The whole time I'm thinking to myself ''yeah, well we eat pineapples and cows too''.
This being true, means that this unattached concept must also be true is a common mistake among a lot of people. BTW, it's not that hard at all to butcher an animal, including fish, mammals, birds and reptiles... Crustaceans Good way to put it. And it works in both directions. The big bang (or big chill now), evolution, quantum mechanics, none of it really tells us if there was or was not a deity.


Many look at scientific evidence, and claim it means what they want it to mean, so that it matches their faith.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
--Gunhaver
Don't let the guys quoted above contact your reps more than you.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Cavalry Doc is online now  
Old 01-26-2013, 20:47   #62
scottz0369
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Tomah, WI
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post

Depends on where you live I guess. My chick's little girl is exposed to christianity in school on a regular basis. As we were when growing up in this area. The teachers around here do not care about the laws because they, their administrators, and even the School board members are all devout southern christians and anyone that doesn't believe is a heathen. She has actual syllabi from school with bible quotes on it and messages like "Remember children... God doesn't make junk." We've contacted the school and all we get is a promise to look into it or we get dismissed saying they have more important things to worry about. They send lesson plans via email with bible quotes. Science teachers have told her to check her bible if she really wants to know where we come from. So we have been keeping records of all of this and have recorded our conversations with the teachers and admins and are preparing to present it to the ACLU.
I'm not sure telling a child that "God doesn't make junk" would justify the ACLU taking a case; I can't imagine there would be much of a payout for them.
You may have better results by working with one of the various freedom from religion groups - they seem to be more willing to take cases with a less payout possibility. The SPLC is probably a non-starter. Another option would be to retain your own lawyer. If the case is as solid as you indicate, then there shouldn't be a problem finding one to take the case, and you would probably recoup legal fees from the judgement.
If all that fails, there's always the option of home schooling, or getting a position on the school board and changing it from within (which is my preferred method of changing a system).
More immediately, you could do what I do - when my kids come home with materials from school that I find objectionable, we talk about it and look at both sides of the issue. Sometimes they come to my way of thinking, sometimes they don't.



posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
scottz0369 is offline  
Old 01-27-2013, 03:12   #63
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 11,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Every religion is a problem. Atheism included.
The seeking of power and control seem to be hardwired into humans.
I find that the Bible has excellent insight into the character of fallen man. One of the temptations that Jesus overcame was the seeking of power and control. Satan himself claiming to own this worlds politics and control.

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Luke 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
Luke 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Vic Hays is offline  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:11   #64
steveksux
Massive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottz0369 View Post
I'm not sure telling a child that "God doesn't make junk" would justify the ACLU taking a case;
That is not true. If you could see MY junk, you'd say "Yeah, God made that"...

If the wife posted here, she'd back me up on this.

Randy
steveksux is offline  
Old 01-27-2013, 08:51   #65
Cavalry Doc
Platinum Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,194


Quote:
Originally Posted by steveksux View Post
That is not true. If you could see MY junk, you'd say "Yeah, God made that"...

If the wife posted here, she'd back me up on this.

Randy
Just like School on a Saturday.......
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
--Gunhaver
Don't let the guys quoted above contact your reps more than you.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Cavalry Doc is online now  
Old 01-27-2013, 08:59   #66
Cavalry Doc
Platinum Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,194


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Hays View Post
I find that the Bible has excellent insight into the character of fallen man. One of the temptations that Jesus overcame was the seeking of power and control. Satan himself claiming to own this worlds politics and control.

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Luke 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
Luke 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
That wasn't a swipe at any religion, but at human nature. When people form into identifiable groups, rarely are all considered equal. A hierarchy is established, as is control. The amount of control varies widely but if given long enough, those in power seek more control more often than less. On many occasions family, community, tribal, ethnic, governmental, political, religious, etc etc etc. All of these groupings allow for cooperation. Humans are much more effective when they cooperate. Ex: No one person built a nuclear bomb. Those groups can do a lot of good or a lot of bad depending how it goes. Yes, many religions frown upon power seeking, and it's happened in just about all of them from time to time.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
--Gunhaver
Don't let the guys quoted above contact your reps more than you.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Cavalry Doc is online now  
Old 01-27-2013, 13:42   #67
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 11,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
That wasn't a swipe at any religion, but at human nature. When people form into identifiable groups, rarely are all considered equal. A hierarchy is established, as is control. The amount of control varies widely but if given long enough, those in power seek more control more often than less. On many occasions family, community, tribal, ethnic, governmental, political, religious, etc etc etc. All of these groupings allow for cooperation. Humans are much more effective when they cooperate. Ex: No one person built a nuclear bomb. Those groups can do a lot of good or a lot of bad depending how it goes. Yes, many religions frown upon power seeking, and it's happened in just about all of them from time to time.
I was agreeing with your observation on the control freakishness of man.

My daughter was overheard on the school playground talking with another student about God. She was given a redirect. This is a punishment of a time out to get her thoughts redirected.
This was a blatant abuse of her first amendment rights. Perhaps a teacher may not promote religion, but there is no such restriction on individual students.

We took her out of public school and homeschooled her.
When she later went to a Christian high school she was a straight A student. Homeschooling was good for her.

Glockt36 would probably approve of this persecution and denial of rights. It goes right along with his controlling agenda.
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Vic Hays is offline  
Old 01-27-2013, 13:47   #68
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
I know what superman looks like. And, ultimately, whether or not superman existed doesn't have much to do with how we got here, and whether or not there is a why.
What we keep finding over and over is that more than likely God doesn't have much to do with how we got here or why. More than likely the why is because this planet just happened to have the right conditions. Not by purpose but by chance. Statistically speaking there are more than likely other planets out there with the right conditions as well. And it's likely there is life there too. Not because of purpose... but just because the conditions just happen to be right. None of this is 100% certain of course. But it's what the evidence keeps telling us. At every turn we keep NOT seeing the hand of a creator or designer with every layer we peel back. Which causes those who believe in a creator to push that creator further back. If you want to keep stuffing that possible deity into the tiny cracks that we've left to explore that's ok. You can do that. But the probability of such gets smaller and smaller all the time. Even if in the next 10 years we conclusively prove that abiogenesis is possible... there will still be believers that claim that even though it's possible we don't know that that's actually how it happened. Which will be true. But that's just stuffing superman into another crack.


Quote:
As previously noted, there's plenty of diversity out there to act as a check and balance.
It often requires loud and obnoxious people like me to maintain that balance.

Quote:
Equal weight about the origin of life? Maybe it was made, maybe it wasn't. I think some people should keep looking into the origins, but in large part not knowing for sure has not really stopped us from getting where we are today.
Looking for the answer in a scientific way has brought us to where we are. Religion has given us many things. War, death, art, music, and in some cases hope as well as despair. But it has given us little of our knowledge of man's origins, and that of the Earth and Universe. Most of what separates us from our barbaric ancestors comes from what we've learned and know... not what we believe and hope.

Quote:
As far as your lady friend's child goes, if something is over the line, report it.
We're quietly building our case and letting the teachers and admins hang themselves.


Quote:
Exposure is going to happen, that's not a problem, indoctrination should not happen. If that is happening to your lady friend's child, you should do what you have to do to change that.
Working on it. Just found out last night that some of her teachers play the Christian radio station softly in the background while they work on lessons in class. That kind of repeated message over and over has a way of sinking into people's heads. It's not much different than having someone preach a sermon quietly in the corner over and over. We're gonna try and get audio tape of that.
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 01-27-2013, 13:51   #69
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Hays View Post
I was agreeing with your observation on the control freakishness of man.

My daughter was overheard on the school playground talking with another student about God. She was given a redirect. This is a punishment of a time out to get her thoughts redirected.
This was a blatant abuse of her first amendment rights. Perhaps a teacher may not promote religion, but there is no such restriction on individual students.

We took her out of public school and homeschooled her.
When she later went to a Christian high school she was a straight A student. Homeschooling was good for her.

Glockt36 would probably approve of this persecution and denial of rights. It goes right along with his controlling agenda.
No not at all. Like mentioned above exposure will happen. I think it's wrong if a student is corrected for expressing themselves. The TEACHERS have no business exposing the kids to anything of a promotional nature in regards to religion. We're looking into private schools as well.
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 01-27-2013, 15:14   #70
Cavalry Doc
Platinum Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,194


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
What we keep finding over and over is that more than likely God doesn't have much to do with how we got here or why. More than likely the why is because this planet just happened to have the right conditions. Not by purpose but by chance. Statistically speaking there are more than likely other planets out there with the right conditions as well. And it's likely there is life there too. Not because of purpose... but just because the conditions just happen to be right. None of this is 100% certain of course. But it's what the evidence keeps telling us. At every turn we keep NOT seeing the hand of a creator or designer with every layer we peel back. Which causes those who believe in a creator to push that creator further back. If you want to keep stuffing that possible deity into the tiny cracks that we've left to explore that's ok. You can do that. But the probability of such gets smaller and smaller all the time. Even if in the next 10 years we conclusively prove that abiogenesis is possible... there will still be believers that claim that even though it's possible we don't know that that's actually how it happened. Which will be true. But that's just stuffing superman into another crack.




It often requires loud and obnoxious people like me to maintain that balance.



Looking for the answer in a scientific way has brought us to where we are. Religion has given us many things. War, death, art, music, and in some cases hope as well as despair. But it has given us little of our knowledge of man's origins, and that of the Earth and Universe. Most of what separates us from our barbaric ancestors comes from what we've learned and know... not what we believe and hope.



We're quietly building our case and letting the teachers and admins hang themselves.




Working on it. Just found out last night that some of her teachers play the Christian radio station softly in the background while they work on lessons in class. That kind of repeated message over and over has a way of sinking into people's heads. It's not much different than having someone preach a sermon quietly in the corner over and over. We're gonna try and get audio tape of that.
War, death, art etc etc, brought to you by humans, with or without religion, and for plenty of non-religious motives. Fear, greed, hubris, power, resources.

Science has created the most lethal weapons in history, enough to kill everyone on the planet a few times over. If death and destruction are the problem, and the solution is that you want to kill more, science has created a capacity to cause human extinction that religion has never been able to match. Nuclear, biological, chemical, explosives, projectiles, metallurgy, all used by scientists to make man more lethal.

Human nature is the root cause, organization just magnifies it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
--Gunhaver
Don't let the guys quoted above contact your reps more than you.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 01-27-2013 at 15:18..
Cavalry Doc is online now  
Old 01-27-2013, 15:57   #71
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
War, death, art etc etc, brought to you by humans, with or without religion, and for plenty of non-religious motives. Fear, greed, hubris, power, resources.
The point wasn't to place blame. That's why I mentioned some of the positive things. My point was that religion hasn't brought us much in the area knowledge of anything other than religion. Especially when it comes to understanding nature, and our origins and that of the Earth and Universe. It's been a motive for many things but rarely discovery of things outside of its dogma. One basic form of knowledge I will attribute to religion is language. But other than that religion has greatly attempted to stand in the way of discovery for fear of blasphemy.

But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the likelihood of those ancient tales being true. And the things we continue to learn points to them being more and more likely false.

Quote:
Science has created the most lethal weapons in history, enough to kill everyone on the planet a few times over. If death and destruction are the problem, and the solution is that you want to kill more, science has created a capacity to cause human extinction that religion has never been able to match. Nuclear, biological, chemical, explosives, projectiles, metallurgy, all used by scientists to make man more lethal.

Human nature is the root cause, organization just magnifies it.
It's trite but with power comes responsibility. Again, my point wasn't to place blame. I agree it is human nature that uses all manner of things as a weapon. My point was that religion has done little past our infancy to advance our species. And it's claims become more apparently false the further we progress.
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 01-27-2013, 20:45   #72
Syclone538
Senior Member
 
Syclone538's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by omega48038 View Post
The whole ''fantastic things as evidence of God'' thing reminds me of a show I saw with some evangelist enthusiastically explaining to a totally enamored Kirk Cameron how the banana removed any doubt as to God's design. He's going on and on about how it fits perfectly in the human hand, how it's shaped to fit the human mouth, the incredibly convient easy-open packaging etc. etc.

The whole time I'm thinking to myself ''yeah, well we eat pineapples and cows too''.
Ray Comfort. He has been shown how we have directed the banana to what it is now, and admitted error, I believe.

Has had a debate with an atheist on youtube, can't remember his name, but it's the guy that did the "why we laugh at creationist" videos.
__________________
Some people want freedom, even for those they disagree with, and some don't.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Quote:
...
The constitution is not, nor was it meant to be absolutely literal.
...
Syclone538 is offline  
Old 01-27-2013, 20:46   #73
Syclone538
Senior Member
 
Syclone538's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
...
The big bang (or big chill now), evolution, quantum mechanics, none of it really tells us if there was or was not a deity.
...
Pretty much everyone agrees with this.
__________________
Some people want freedom, even for those they disagree with, and some don't.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Quote:
...
The constitution is not, nor was it meant to be absolutely literal.
...
Syclone538 is offline  
Old 01-27-2013, 22:21   #74
Cavalry Doc
Platinum Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,194


Quote:
Originally Posted by Syclone538 View Post
Pretty much everyone agrees with this.
I'd agree that most people do, but it sure seems as if some people take the sum total of that which we do know, and claim it is proof that no god exists. At least one guy is very proud of this.

I guess it takes all kinds. It's not a bad thing, just an interesting character trait.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
--Gunhaver
Don't let the guys quoted above contact your reps more than you.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Cavalry Doc is online now  
Old 01-27-2013, 23:01   #75
Syclone538
Senior Member
 
Syclone538's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
I'd agree that most people do, but it sure seems as if some people take the sum total of that which we do know, and claim it is proof that no god exists. At least one guy is very proud of this.

I guess it takes all kinds. It's not a bad thing, just an interesting character trait.
Didn't we just go through this a couple days ago? Can you point to a specific post?
__________________
Some people want freedom, even for those they disagree with, and some don't.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Quote:
...
The constitution is not, nor was it meant to be absolutely literal.
...
Syclone538 is offline  
Old 01-28-2013, 07:06   #76
Cavalry Doc
Platinum Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,194


Quote:
Originally Posted by Syclone538 View Post
Didn't we just go through this a couple days ago? Can you point to a specific post?
I'll PM you the links.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
--Gunhaver
Don't let the guys quoted above contact your reps more than you.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Cavalry Doc is online now  
Old 02-02-2013, 21:07   #77
Tedge
Senior Member
 
Tedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SC
Posts: 182
Religious Issues

Yeah, atheists. How comes?
Tedge is offline  
Old 02-03-2013, 14:39   #78
juggy4711
Nimrod Son
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Galveston County, TX
Posts: 3,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Science is a very good system. The things that have been tested and proven, are very useful in determining what is. Not so sure about the why though. Big Bang vs. Big Chill is a good example. The universe is expanding. We may not be really sure why...
That's actually a good point. It may very well be possible to accurately describe the observed state of the universe with both a bang and a chill approach. Which just goes to show how unimportant either language model is. It doesn't matter why the universe is expanding, its only important the we know that it is and understand the characteristics of said expansion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
...The big bang (or big chill now), evolution, quantum mechanics, none of it really tells us if there was or was not a deity. Many look at scientific evidence, and claim it means what they want it to mean, so that it matches their faith.
You really like pointing out the Big Chill thing as if it means something. It doesn't. Anyway I again sort of agree. A lot of atheists go to far in attributing science as a discredit of a deity/s.

However while science can not be used to prove or disprove whether there are deities, it can show religions to be falsifiable.

I break with most atheists on the first issue and with fellow believers on the second. While I believe in God, I do not believe in any religion as they are demonstrably false.
juggy4711 is offline  
Old 02-03-2013, 16:14   #79
Cavalry Doc
Platinum Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,194


Quote:
Originally Posted by juggy4711 View Post
That's actually a good point. It may very well be possible to accurately describe the observed state of the universe with both a bang and a chill approach. Which just goes to show how unimportant either language model is. It doesn't matter why the universe is expanding, its only important the we know that it is and understand the characteristics of said expansion.



You really like pointing out the Big Chill thing as if it means something. It doesn't. Anyway I again sort of agree. A lot of atheists go to far in attributing science as a discredit of a deity/s.

However while science can not be used to prove or disprove whether there are deities, it can show religions to be falsifiable.

I break with most atheists on the first issue and with fellow believers on the second. While I believe in God, I do not believe in any religion as they are demonstrably false.
The big chill is just the latest in a string. I was told in school, that a new ice age was coming, then it was global warming, then MAN MADE global warming, PEOPLE were demonized for driving SUV's and for burning coal, while protesters burning tires and natural volcanoes were given a pass..... and the data shows that global warming stopped about a decade or so ago, KAPOW! so some guys tried to shut the real data up, but were somehow found innocent of scientific malfeasance.

It's all really chaotic when you really look at it objectively.

Science is great. Humans aren't great by default. Stuff is bound to go wrong. Still, even though humankind has effed a bunch of stuff up, we've done a lot of things right too.

Herding cats. Get used to it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
--Gunhaver
Don't let the guys quoted above contact your reps more than you.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Cavalry Doc is online now  
Old 02-03-2013, 16:21   #80
itstime
Senior Member
 
itstime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 7,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentak View Post
God also planned for obsolescence. In several billion years, the sun will enter a red giant stage, incinerating the Earth, and eventually dying to a cold remnant. Of course, mankind will be long gone by then--either having become extinct or moved on to greener pastures.
Our deficit won't allow greener pastures.

I just read billions of years. Long time.

Trillions is sooooo much bigger.
itstime is offline  

 
  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:39.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,374
394 Members
980 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31