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Old 02-06-2013, 10:57   #126
Glock36shooter
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Well. it's your claim. Can you describe in detail, using math or any other means, what the big bang looked like?

Is there any possibility that it looked different?
Changing the subject is no longer going to work for you here. Do you have evidence of a flaw in the mathematics from which descriptions of the BBT are derived?
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:02   #127
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Originally Posted by Cavalry PA View Post
The second "A" is capitalized. Wouldn't want you posting while appearing..... well, you know.
Ok... I missed a capitalization.

You continue to be dishonest and misleading with nearly everything you post. Why do you keep dishonestly implying that Geko has tried to deny his statement when every single time you drag it out to try and change the subject (like you're doing now) he has owned it?

Why are you such a dishonest person Cav-PA?

And I appear as what??? Stoned? Are you being dishonest yet again? I fear that if in your personal life your mouth is ever open, lies must just come flying out constantly.

Geko is right. It is deeply ingrained in you to be dishonest isn't it?

Last edited by Glock36shooter; 02-06-2013 at 11:04..
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:11   #128
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Changing the subject is no longer going to work for you here. Do you have evidence of a flaw in the mathematics from which descriptions of the BBT are derived?
From what we can really tell, the universe is expanding, and it probably used to be hotter. Any detailed description of what is causing that is not proven by math. Objective scientists admit that requires extrapolation from current observations.

But don't just take my word for it, ask a scientist.


http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...5/phy05329.htm
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:20   #129
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
From what we can really tell, the universe is expanding, and it probably used to be hotter. Any detailed description of what is causing that is not proven by math. Objective scientists admit that requires extrapolation from current observations.
This is just plain wrong.

Just so everyone is clear, this is the lagrangian for the Lambda-CDM model of the early universe (aka "Big Bang" theory). This is the actual theory. Terms like "dark matter" and "cosmic inflation" are simply part of a plain english interpretation of the predicted results that arise from solving this function.

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JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."

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Old 02-06-2013, 11:23   #130
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Ok... I missed a capitalization.

You continue to be dishonest and misleading with nearly everything you post. Why do you keep dishonestly implying that Geko has tried to deny his statement when every single time you drag it out to try and change the subject (like you're doing now) he has owned it?

Why are you such a dishonest person Cav-PA?

And I appear as what??? Stoned? Are you being dishonest yet again? I fear that if in your personal life your mouth is ever open, lies must just come flying out constantly.

Geko is right. It is deeply ingrained in you to be dishonest isn't it?
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19835157

I've been honest about my opinions. Last time we spoke on the subject of drugs, you said you didn't do them, I said I would not accuse you of that.

I guess you probably feel more comfortable thinking that I must be lying in order to have the positions I have, because you cannot fathom them. It's evidence of your closed mindedness. It can only be one way with you, your way. How's that working out for you IRL?
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:26   #131
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
I've been honest about my opinions. Last time we spoke on the subject of drugs, you said you didn't do them, I said I would not accuse you of that.
Yet another evasion, he did not accuse you of being dishonest about your own opinions.



Got anything else, Doc?
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:25   #132
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
From what we can really tell, the universe is expanding, and it probably used to be hotter. Any detailed description of what is causing that is not proven by math. Objective scientists admit that requires extrapolation from current observations.
Absolutely false. The descriptions are based on what is found in the math.

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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
What is this supposed to illustrate other than your creepy stalker file actually exists.

Quote:
I've been honest about my opinions. Last time we spoke on the subject of drugs, you said you didn't do them, I said I would not accuse you of that.
1. I never said anything about your opinions. You are dishonest in the way you represent others statements and present your points that are supposedly based in fact. Much like your comment above about there being no math to illustrate elements of the BBT. You're either being dishonest or are highly uninformed on the matter. Which is it?

2. If you were not implying that I'm on drugs in the "Wouldn't want you posting while appearing..... well, you know." comment then what were you trying to imply exactly? What was your implication? You wouldn't want me appearing how?

Quote:
I guess you probably feel more comfortable thinking that I must be lying in order to have the positions I have
No I know you're lying because you're a liar and continue to support that fact over and over with your dishonest posts. It's really that simple.

Like I said, changing the subject and dodging is no longer going to work for you here. My questions are above and I await your answers. You may feel free to refuse because of some fictional sense of getting butt hurt about being called out for what you are. But that really means nothing at this point. Everyone sees you for what you are.

Last edited by Glock36shooter; 02-06-2013 at 12:25..
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:29   #133
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Objective scientists admit that requires extrapolation from current observations.

But don't just take my word for it, ask a scientist.


http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...5/phy05329.htm
I happen to know a couple of physicists personally, and they're pretty honest guys. I doubt they'd consider the mere fact that sometimes extrapolation is used in science is a valid basis for pretending that a theory whose mathematical description has made predictions about the universe which have been verified is "just a guess". Shall I ask them that, and see what they think?

You were wrong when making a claim that implied the BBT somehow disproves a deity.
You were wrong in your claims about math and the BBT.
You contradicted yourself by saying it was both a scientific theory and "just an example"
Why can't you just admit it?
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Last edited by void *; 02-06-2013 at 12:44..
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:58   #134
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Originally Posted by void * View Post
I happen to know a couple of physicists personally, and they're pretty honest guys. I doubt they'd consider the mere fact that sometimes extrapolation is used in science is a valid basis for pretending that a theory whose mathematical description has made predictions about the universe which have been verified is "just a guess". Shall I ask them that, and see what they think?

You were wrong when making a claim that implied the BBT somehow disproves a deity.
You were wrong in your claims about math and the BBT.
You contradicted yourself by saying it was both a scientific theory and "just an example"
Why can't you just admit it?
OK, I'll concede that it's an educated guess. Happy now?

The BBT disproves a deity? I'm pretty sure I never meant to claim that. It's a bit like life, no one really knows how it started, we can just see some of the results after the start.

You are splitting hairs quite finely by the way. Am I not allowed in your book of rules to use an admittedly incomplete theory as an example of a place where scientific knowledge is not complete? Don't you think I should have a copy of your rule book before you go spouting off that I'm not following them?

Why can't you just admit you really don't know as much as you think you do, and believe more than you will admit?
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:02   #135
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OK, I'll concede that it's an educated guess. Happy now?
Do you consider it a justifiably accepted scientific theory, or not? If you do, why do you keep claiming variations of 'guess'?

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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
The BBT disproves a deity? I'm pretty sure I never meant to claim that.
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Swish and a miss on the whole scientific argument......

Real science neither proves whether a deity has existed or not.


There will always be the faithful that argue differently. You're one of them... Get used to it.
Since we were discussing the BBT at the time, please clarify your intent.

Was it to
a) Imply the BBT was not "real science"
b) Accuse me of making a "faithful" argument that I never actually made
c) both of the above

You go on about integrity a lot, so it will be interesting to see what your response is here. If you'll even in fact admit that I never made any such argument, for instance ...
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Last edited by void *; 02-06-2013 at 13:09..
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:06   #136
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Originally Posted by void * View Post
You go on about integrity a lot, so it will be interesting to see what your response is here.
Regardless of his answer (or more likely the lack thereof), the truly sad part is that we will go through this all again about a week from now as if this whole conversation never took place.
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:06   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Absolutely false. The descriptions are based on what is found in the math.

...
The math simply does not explain it all.

http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/BB-top-30.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_epoch

http://www.space.com/8066-big-bang-s...es-remain.html


Is it that hard for you to admit that BBT is not yet complete? Not everything has been explained, there are still some mysteries out there.
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:07   #138
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The BBT disproves a deity? I'm pretty sure I never meant to claim that.
You continually claim others here are making that leap. That what we know about evolution, abiogenesis, and the BBT somehow disprove a deity. And no one is making that claim.

Again... more of your dishonesty.

Quote:
You are splitting hairs quite finely by the way. Am I not allowed in your book of rules to use an admittedly incomplete theory as an example of a place where scientific knowledge is not complete?
Absolutely... but no one has suggested that our scientific knowledge IS complete. So I wouldn't understand why it would matter.

Quote:
Why can't you just admit you really don't know as much as you think you do, and believe more than you will admit?
Because that would be a dishonest misrepresentation of his stance. Which is something you do quite regularly.
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:10   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by void * View Post
Since we were discussing the BBT at the time, please clarify your intent.

Was it to
a) Imply the BBT was not "real science"
b) Accuse me of making a "faithful" argument that I never actually made
c) both of the above

You go on about integrity a lot, so it will be interesting to see what your response is here.
Ahhh, I may see your misunderstanding, which is apparently my fault. Let me clarify. First, I did not mean to imply that the BBT disproves or proves a deity, second, the sentence should probably have read something closer to this:
Quote:
Real science neither proves nor disproves whether a deity has existed or not.

Is that clearer?
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:10   #140
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Is it that hard for you to admit that BBT is not yet complete? Not everything has been explained, there are still some mysteries out there.
No one said anything is complete or final at this point. You're misrepresenting people's statements again. Your point was that what we do know about the BBT isn't supported by math. And this is either you being dishonest or you being uneducated. Which is it?
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:12   #141
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Ahhh, I may see your misunderstanding, which is apparently my fault. Let me clarify. First, I did not mean to imply that the BBT disproves or proves a deity, second, the sentence should probably have read something closer to this:

"Real science neither proves nor disproves whether a deity has existed or not."

Is that clearer?
Who has made the claim that it can? You're the only one implying that people are making this claim here.
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:13   #142
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Is that clearer?
It does not answer the questions.

Was your intent with that statement to imply that the BBT is not real science?

If not, why did you even make that statement when the subject under discussion was the BBT?

Furthermore, can you admit that I never claimed that the BBT, or any scientific theory, is disproof of the existence of a deity? Can you publicly admit that the accusation you made was wrong, or not? Remember, integrity.
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:13   #143
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
You continually claim others here are making that leap. That what we know about evolution, abiogenesis, and the BBT somehow disprove a deity. And no one is making that claim.

Again... more of your dishonesty.
I did? About the BBT? Where? There was a fellow that was using evolution in a similar fashion, but I think he was looking at solar powered animals and believed it was evidence of the absence of a benevolent god, but that was my take on it.

You really have been raised without any manners at all. Calm down, there's no need to be so upset. I'm not upset. I do want a sandwich though. Guess I'll go get one.
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:20   #144
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We are now 50 posts removed from my post #93 where I called him out on this. I point this out because this is his modis operandi. He is hoping to evade long enough such that everyone forgets what the original point was.
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

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Old 02-06-2013, 13:26   #145
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but that was my take on it.
No it isn't, it's your intentional attempt to misrepresent other peoples arguments. All in all as an attempt to slither away from other dishonest and error filled statements that you make that you don't want to defend or explain. You're just a dishonest person Cav-Pa. Face it.

Quote:
You really have been raised without any manners at all. Calm down, there's no need to be so upset. I'm not upset. I do want a sandwich though. Guess I'll go get one.
No one is upset. We are all calmly illustrating how much of a liar you are.

Hope that sandwich isn't on white or imitation wheat bread. That enriched white flour is poison for your body. Sure you knew that being in the medical field. I'm having freshly pureed Oranges, strawberries, watermelon, ruby red grapefruit, cucumbers, parsley, cabbage, and carrots for lunch. So many wonderful vitamins, minerals, and healthy enzymes and acids.
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:35   #146
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I did? About the BBT? Where?
Right here:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=103

Remember, integrity - you could easily admit that the accusation you made had no basis and you know full well that we were discussing the BBT.

Instead, you're pretending you don't accuse people of being the "faithful" who "will always believe otherwise" with respect to whether or not "Real science neither proves nor disproves whether a deity has existed or not" under circumstances in which the science under discussion was the BBT.

I don't think anyone is upset, per se, CD. I think we are all just pointing out that you are making claims that are not justifiable based on your own posting history. You can either own up to it, or not - and apparently you've chosen "not".
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Last edited by void *; 02-06-2013 at 13:44..
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:45   #147
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I must admit, one can only marvel at his tenacity. It takes real effort to maintain this sort of charade indefinitely. Especially when it is so plainly false. Doc has elevated the character flaw of shamelessness to that of an art. The pure arrogance and audaciousness required to adhere to such an absurd position without end is truly awe-inspiring.
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."

Last edited by Geko45; 02-06-2013 at 13:46..
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:11   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by void * View Post
Right here:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=103

Remember, integrity - you could easily admit that the accusation you made had no basis and you know full well that we were discussing the BBT.

Instead, you're pretending you don't accuse people of being the "faithful" who "will always believe otherwise" with respect to whether or not "Real science neither proves nor disproves whether a deity has existed or not" under circumstances in which the science under discussion was the BBT.

I don't think anyone is upset, per se, CD. I think we are all just pointing out that you are making claims that are not justifiable based on your own posting history. You can either own up to it, or not - and apparently you've chosen "not".
Oh, I see lots of people banging out emotional decomposition on their keyboards. G36S has it real bad.

"Real science neither proves nor disproves whether a deity has existed or not."

At least not yet it hasn't. That is a true statement. If you think otherwise, please explain.

There are those that are faithful that there is a deity, and there are those that are faithful that has never been a deity.

That is a true statement too. Both cherry pick factoids and pieces of information that they think supports their belief.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 02-06-2013 at 14:19..
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:18   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
I must admit, one can only marvel at his tenacity. It takes real effort to maintain this sort of charade indefinitely. Especially when it is so plainly false. Doc has elevated the character flaw of shamelessness to that of an art. The pure arrogance and audaciousness required to adhere to such an absurd position without end is truly awe-inspiring.
Want to know the real trick, it's not a charade. I'm a real person, I have opinions that I am comfortable with, and your disapproval is not a factor at all. Disagreeing on the internet is such a trivial form of conflict that one should not be concerned about it at all. After all, it's only a disagreement. I've had other disagreements IRL that were a little more intense than anything you could possibly do on an internet forum.

Just because I think of atheism as a religion, and of you as a devout follower of it, if not almost clergy, is no big deal. It does neither of of us any harm at all for me to have that opinion. I'm at peace with that.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:22   #150
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Avoid, avoid, avoid, CD - because that's integrity, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Real science neither proves whether a deity has existed or not.


There will always be the faithful that argue differently. You're one of them... Get used to it.
Please either

a) Admit that I have never claimed that science proves or disproves a deity
or
b) Provide some kind of proof to back up your claim that I have somehow claimed science proves or disproves a deity
or
c) Continue your avoidance tactics.

Anyone want to lay bets against c?

Quote:
At least not yet it hasn't. That is a true statement. If you think otherwise, please explain.
It certainly is a true statement. The question I have right now is why are you accusing people that they think otherwise when you have not (and in my case, /cannot/) provide any evidence that they've made a claim it was false?
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Last edited by void *; 02-06-2013 at 14:30..
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