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Old 02-06-2013, 14:12   #141
Glock36shooter
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Ahhh, I may see your misunderstanding, which is apparently my fault. Let me clarify. First, I did not mean to imply that the BBT disproves or proves a deity, second, the sentence should probably have read something closer to this:

"Real science neither proves nor disproves whether a deity has existed or not."

Is that clearer?
Who has made the claim that it can? You're the only one implying that people are making this claim here.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:13   #142
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Is that clearer?
It does not answer the questions.

Was your intent with that statement to imply that the BBT is not real science?

If not, why did you even make that statement when the subject under discussion was the BBT?

Furthermore, can you admit that I never claimed that the BBT, or any scientific theory, is disproof of the existence of a deity? Can you publicly admit that the accusation you made was wrong, or not? Remember, integrity.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:13   #143
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
You continually claim others here are making that leap. That what we know about evolution, abiogenesis, and the BBT somehow disprove a deity. And no one is making that claim.

Again... more of your dishonesty.
I did? About the BBT? Where? There was a fellow that was using evolution in a similar fashion, but I think he was looking at solar powered animals and believed it was evidence of the absence of a benevolent god, but that was my take on it.

You really have been raised without any manners at all. Calm down, there's no need to be so upset. I'm not upset. I do want a sandwich though. Guess I'll go get one.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:20   #144
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We are now 50 posts removed from my post #93 where I called him out on this. I point this out because this is his modis operandi. He is hoping to evade long enough such that everyone forgets what the original point was.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:26   #145
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but that was my take on it.
No it isn't, it's your intentional attempt to misrepresent other peoples arguments. All in all as an attempt to slither away from other dishonest and error filled statements that you make that you don't want to defend or explain. You're just a dishonest person Cav-Pa. Face it.

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You really have been raised without any manners at all. Calm down, there's no need to be so upset. I'm not upset. I do want a sandwich though. Guess I'll go get one.
No one is upset. We are all calmly illustrating how much of a liar you are.

Hope that sandwich isn't on white or imitation wheat bread. That enriched white flour is poison for your body. Sure you knew that being in the medical field. I'm having freshly pureed Oranges, strawberries, watermelon, ruby red grapefruit, cucumbers, parsley, cabbage, and carrots for lunch. So many wonderful vitamins, minerals, and healthy enzymes and acids.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:35   #146
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
I did? About the BBT? Where?
Right here:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=103

Remember, integrity - you could easily admit that the accusation you made had no basis and you know full well that we were discussing the BBT.

Instead, you're pretending you don't accuse people of being the "faithful" who "will always believe otherwise" with respect to whether or not "Real science neither proves nor disproves whether a deity has existed or not" under circumstances in which the science under discussion was the BBT.

I don't think anyone is upset, per se, CD. I think we are all just pointing out that you are making claims that are not justifiable based on your own posting history. You can either own up to it, or not - and apparently you've chosen "not".
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:45   #147
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I must admit, one can only marvel at his tenacity. It takes real effort to maintain this sort of charade indefinitely. Especially when it is so plainly false. Doc has elevated the character flaw of shamelessness to that of an art. The pure arrogance and audaciousness required to adhere to such an absurd position without end is truly awe-inspiring.
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:11   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by void * View Post
Right here:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=103

Remember, integrity - you could easily admit that the accusation you made had no basis and you know full well that we were discussing the BBT.

Instead, you're pretending you don't accuse people of being the "faithful" who "will always believe otherwise" with respect to whether or not "Real science neither proves nor disproves whether a deity has existed or not" under circumstances in which the science under discussion was the BBT.

I don't think anyone is upset, per se, CD. I think we are all just pointing out that you are making claims that are not justifiable based on your own posting history. You can either own up to it, or not - and apparently you've chosen "not".
Oh, I see lots of people banging out emotional decomposition on their keyboards. G36S has it real bad.

"Real science neither proves nor disproves whether a deity has existed or not."

At least not yet it hasn't. That is a true statement. If you think otherwise, please explain.

There are those that are faithful that there is a deity, and there are those that are faithful that has never been a deity.

That is a true statement too. Both cherry pick factoids and pieces of information that they think supports their belief.
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:18   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
I must admit, one can only marvel at his tenacity. It takes real effort to maintain this sort of charade indefinitely. Especially when it is so plainly false. Doc has elevated the character flaw of shamelessness to that of an art. The pure arrogance and audaciousness required to adhere to such an absurd position without end is truly awe-inspiring.
Want to know the real trick, it's not a charade. I'm a real person, I have opinions that I am comfortable with, and your disapproval is not a factor at all. Disagreeing on the internet is such a trivial form of conflict that one should not be concerned about it at all. After all, it's only a disagreement. I've had other disagreements IRL that were a little more intense than anything you could possibly do on an internet forum.

Just because I think of atheism as a religion, and of you as a devout follower of it, if not almost clergy, is no big deal. It does neither of of us any harm at all for me to have that opinion. I'm at peace with that.
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:22   #150
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Avoid, avoid, avoid, CD - because that's integrity, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Real science neither proves whether a deity has existed or not.


There will always be the faithful that argue differently. You're one of them... Get used to it.
Please either

a) Admit that I have never claimed that science proves or disproves a deity
or
b) Provide some kind of proof to back up your claim that I have somehow claimed science proves or disproves a deity
or
c) Continue your avoidance tactics.

Anyone want to lay bets against c?

Quote:
At least not yet it hasn't. That is a true statement. If you think otherwise, please explain.
It certainly is a true statement. The question I have right now is why are you accusing people that they think otherwise when you have not (and in my case, /cannot/) provide any evidence that they've made a claim it was false?
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:25   #151
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
No it isn't, it's your intentional attempt to misrepresent other peoples arguments. All in all as an attempt to slither away from other dishonest and error filled statements that you make that you don't want to defend or explain. You're just a dishonest person Cav-Pa. Face it.



No one is upset. We are all calmly illustrating how much of a liar you are.

Hope that sandwich isn't on white or imitation wheat bread. That enriched white flour is poison for your body. Sure you knew that being in the medical field. I'm having freshly pureed Oranges, strawberries, watermelon, ruby red grapefruit, cucumbers, parsley, cabbage, and carrots for lunch. So many wonderful vitamins, minerals, and healthy enzymes and acids.
Be careful with the grapefruit. Lots of food to drug interactions.

Not a complete list, consult a professional.
Quote:
The following drugs are affected by CYP3A4 inhibition with grapefruit compounds:

The benzodiazepines triazolam (Halcion), orally administered midazolam (Versed), orally administered triazepam (Mogodon), diazepam (Valium), alprazolam (Xanax) and quazepam[4]
ritonavir (Norvir) inhibits CYP3A4 preventing the metabolism of protease inhibitors[5]
sertraline (Zoloft and Lustral)[6]

Additional drugs found to be affected by grapefruit juice include, but are not limited to:

Some statins such as atorvastatin (Lipitor), lovastatin (Mevacor), and simvastatin (Zocor, Simlup, Simcor, Simvacor) but not Pravastatin (Pravachol), fluvastatin (Lescol) or rosuvastatin (Crestor) which are unaffected by grapefruit.[7][8]
Dihydropyridines including felodipine (Plendil), nicardipine (Cardene), nifedipine, nisoldipine (Sular), nitrendipine (Bayotensin)[7]
losartan (Cozaar)[7]
The cough suppressant dextromethorphan[citation needed]
modafinil (Provigil, Alertec, Modavigil, Modalert, Modiodal, Modafinilo, Carim, Vigia)[citation needed]
repaglinide (Prandin)[7]
verapamil (Calan SR, Covera HS, Isoptin SR, Verelan)[7]
buspirone (Buspar) Grapefruit juice increased peak and AUC plasma concentrations of buspirone 4.3- and 9.2-fold, respectively, in a randomized, 2-phase, ten-subject crossover study. [9]
levothyroxine (Eltroxin, Levoxyl, Synthroid) Effects of grapefruit juice on the absorption of levothyroxine. [10]
Antiarrhythmics including amiodarone (Cordarone), dronedarone (Multaq), quinidine (Quinidex, Cardioquin, Quinora), disopyramide (Norpace), propafenone (Rhythmol), and carvedilol (Coreg)[7]
Antihistamines astemizole (Hismanal) and terfenadine (Seldane) - now removed from the US and Canadian markets[citation needed]
cisapride (Prepuslid, Propulsid) (which treats GERD) - now removed from the US and Canadian markets[citation needed]
Erectile dysfunction drugs sildenafil (Viagra), tadalafil (Cialis), and vardenafil (Levitra)[7][11]
The anti-migraine drugs ergotamine (Cafergot, Ergomar), amitryptiline (Elavil, Endep, Vanatrip) and nimodipine (Nimotop)[7]
Fluvoxamine (Luvox, Faverin, Fevarin and Dumyrox)[12]
Codeine and Tramadol.[13] It reduces the amount of codeine converted by CYP3A4 into norcodeine thus increasing the amount metabolized into morphine.[citation needed] Morphine itself, however, is not affected by grapefruit juice, as it is not metabolized by the cytochrome P450 system.
Cyclosporine (Neoral). Blood levels of cyclosporine are increased if taken with grapefruit juice. A plausible mechanism involves the combined inhibition of enteric CYP3A4 and P-glycoprotein, which potentially leads to serious adverse events (e.g., nephrotoxicity).Blood levels of tacrolimus (Prograf) can also be equally affected for the same reason as with cyclosporine. [both drugs are calcineurin inhibitors][14]
omeprazole (Losec, Prilosec)[citation needed]
zolpidem (Ambien) Little or no interaction with grapefruit juice.[15]
oxycodone (Oxycodone is metabolized by the cytochrome P450 system, specifically CYP3A4, of which the bergamottin flavonoid is a strong inhibitor)[16]
hydrocodone (The hepatic cytochrome P450 enzyme CYP2D6 converts it into hydromorphone, a more potent opioid.)[citation needed]
dihydrocodeine[citation needed]
quetiapine (Seroquel)[17]
methadone Inhibits the metabolism of methadone and raises serum levels.[18]
buprenorphine Metabolized into norbuprenorphine by cytochrome-P450 isoenzyme 3A4[19]
Tyrosine kinase inhibitors, including imatinib (Gleevec) and nilotinib (Tasigna), used to treat chronic myelogenous leukemia and gastrointestinal stromal tumors.[citation needed]
trazodone (Desyrel) Little or no interaction with grapefruit juice.[15]
Anthelmintics (Used for treating certain parasitic infections, includes praziquantel albendazole and mebendazole)[citation needed]
carbamazepine (Tegretol) Grapefruit or grapefruit juice slows the breakdown of this drug, increasing the level of it in blood[citation needed]
imatinib (Gleevec) Although no formal studies with imatinib and grapefruit juice have been conducted, the fact that grapefruit juice is a known inhibitor of the CYP 3A4, suggests that co-administration may lead to increased imatinib plasma concentrations. Likewise, although no formal studies were conducted, co-administration of imatinib with another specific type of citrus juice called Seville orange juice (SOJ) may lead to increased imatinib plasma concentrations via inhibition of the CYP3A isoenzymes. Seville orange juice is not usually consumed as a juice because of its sour taste, but it is found in marmalade and other jams. Seville orange juice has been reported to be a possible inhibitor of CYP3A enzymes without affecting P-glycoprotein when taken concomitantly with cyclosporine.[20]
Loperamide (Imodium)[citation needed]
colchicine (Colcrys)[citation needed]
erlotinib (Tarceva) [21]
In a mouse study, blood concentrations of acetaminophen/paracetamol (Tylenol) were found to be increased by white and pink grapefruit juice, with the white juice acting faster.[22]
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:26   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Just because I think of atheism as a religion, and of you as a devout follower of it, if not almost clergy, is no big deal. It does neither of of us any harm at all for me to have that opinion. I'm at peace with that.


That opinion of yours has nothing more to do with the point at hand now than it has for the past 60 posts. We aren't talking about whether atheism is a religion. We haven't been for awhile. That you keep substituting that in place of the actual topic is the true charade.
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:26   #153
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
"Real science neither proves nor disproves whether a deity has existed or not."

At least no yet it hasn't. That is a true statement. If you think otherwise, please explain.
No one has suggested that it isn't. But that's not the point you've been making. You claimed that math doesn't support what we know about the BBT. This is horribly incorrect. So you either are being intentionally dishonest or you simply don't know what you're talking about. Which is it? We aren't letting you change the subject or slither away.

Quote:
there are those that are faithful that has never been a deity.
Please illustrate this argument. I'd like to see a quote of someone saying they have faith that there is no God.
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:28   #154
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Be careful with the grapefruit. Lots of food to drug interactions.

Not a complete list, consult a professional.
Doesn't matter, I'm on no drugs. Never experienced an allergy or bad interactions with food either.

Care to answer any questions posed to you so far or are you going to continue to slither?

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Old 02-06-2013, 15:28   #155
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Originally Posted by void * View Post
Avoid, avoid, avoid, CD - because that's integrity, right?



Please either

a) Admit that I have never claimed that science proves or disproves a deity
or
b) Provide some kind of proof to back up your claim that I have somehow claimed science proves or disproves a deity
or
c) Continue your avoidance tactics.

Anyone want to lay bets against c?
You are hung up on this bad, aren't you.

How about this, I'll just come right out and ask you, and then take you at your word.

Do you believe that the scientific knowledge of all of humanity proves or disproves whether or not a deity has or has not existed?

Whatever your answer, I'll believe that is your answer.
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:31   #156
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Please illustrate this argument. I'd like to see a quote of someone saying they have faith that there is no God.
Careful, he is getting closer to successfully reframing the debate.
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:32   #157
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
No one has suggested that it isn't. But that's not the point you've been making. You claimed that math doesn't support what we know about the BBT. This is horribly incorrect. So you either are being intentionally dishonest or you simply don't know what you're talking about. Which is it? We aren't letting you change the subject or slither away.



Please illustrate this argument. I'd like to see a quote of someone saying they have faith that there is no God.
Actually, I've been saying that the BBT is not yet fully explained, not by math, not by theory, which is why real scientists are still looking into it, and maybe considering slightly or radically different answers. Big chill? Another Universe? String Theory?

It's not a complete package just yet.
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:33   #158
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You are hung up on this bad, aren't you.

How about this, I'll just come right out and ask you, and then take you at your word.

Do you believe that the scientific knowledge of all of humanity proves or disproves whether or not a deity has or has not existed?

Whatever your answer, I'll believe that is your answer.
No you won't... I told you several times I don't do drugs and yet you STILL make veiled implications that I am.

Dishonesty is a part of your nature.

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Old 02-06-2013, 15:33   #159
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...Do you believe that the scientific knowledge of all of humanity proves or disproves whether or not a deity has or has not existed?...
No, I don't feel that it disproves the existence of dieties. It certainly doesn't provide any evidence FOR them existing, though.
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:33   #160
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Careful, he is getting closer to successfully reframing the debate.
Yeah, didn't you claim to have proven there is no deity?

Thanks for the reminder.
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