GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-26-2013, 22:25   #21
LA_357SIG
Milspectacular
 
LA_357SIG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Not Los Angeles.
Posts: 1,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_b View Post
Do a search on here and online- you'll soon discover the brands that show up most frequently as having issues. THAT is how I started my research before I built my AR.



Almost exactly my findings except I'd add Olympic in with Bushmaster, Del-Ton, DPMS, etc.

Makes me appreciate guys like you, Murph, etc. taking time to share your knowledge with us AR noobs.
Knowledge or opinion? No offense, but a lot of the members here that seem to be exhaulted for whatever reason, don't seem to have first hand experience to back up the advice they are praised for. Having a small sample size and "dumping it on the next guy" because they read somewhere that it didn't pass the internet commando litmus test, shouldn't be more valued than what the guy who bought the bastard brand, had a problem and fixed it himself says.


Sent from my ADR6350
__________________
"If I was you I would keep it just like it is... and shoot the **** out of it until something breaks. Then replace whatever it is and keep shooting."
LA_357SIG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 22:31   #22
tampashooters
Shellback
 
tampashooters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_b View Post
Do a search on here and online- you'll soon discover the brands that show up most frequently as having issues. THAT is how I started my research before I built my AR.



Almost exactly my findings except I'd add Olympic in with Bushmaster, Del-Ton, DPMS, etc.

Makes me appreciate guys like you, Murph, etc. taking time to share your knowledge with us AR noobs.
Sadly, they are not sharing any knowledge, and doing a great disservice to noobs. All they are doing is passing along internet chatter, instead of real ownership experience.
__________________
Member:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
tampashooters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 22:46   #23
Rooster Rugburn
Got Pignose?
 
Rooster Rugburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hopefully, on your ignore list
Posts: 5,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by stooxie View Post
Be prepared for all the operators to tell you that Colt is the only true rifle!
"Operators" or "the other priorities crowd"? Big difference.

I see folks shooting them at the club and they don't have any problems. Oddly enough, I seem to see a lot of people shooting DPMS. Seemingly more than any other brand. I say seemingly because I don't keep a tally.

A local PD uses Bushmaster, and I don't hear of them losing officers to equipment malfunctions.
__________________
Sent from American Standard low flow using Crappertalk.

Ever notice that people who say "There is no I in TEAM" are the ones always riding your coattails?
Rooster Rugburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 00:02   #24
tnedator
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
tnedator's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by vallelbg View Post
Any thoughts or feelings, good or bad concerning this rifle?
Check out a lot of forums, including some of the ones more dedicated to ARs and you will find that it's become Vogue to bash DPMS, but you will also find the common theme that virtually every forum warrior that bashes DPMS doesn't actually own one.

On the other hand, the people that post that do, or did, own one, typically have nothing but praise for them.

As I understand it, in the very early days, DPMS had some quality issues, but that was quickly addressed.

The other factor to consider, even if you do read about the occasional real issue, is that DPMS is one of the leading producers of AR-15s sold to retail customers. I think these days either Bushmaster (sold at Wal-mart now) or DPMS is the leading producer of AR's sold to non-government/police customers.

Whether justified or not, DPMS is the brand that people love to hate on the forums. All of us forum folks have seen this many times, with many products. Some products are the "cool" products and others are the goats that always get bashed, but often by people who are just repeating what they saw elsewhere on a forum.
__________________
NRA Benefactor - Life Member
tnedator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 00:05   #25
tnedator
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
tnedator's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post
Yep, every brand has the occasional screw-up, but some of them have those screw-ups far more often than others. There's a good reason why you hear more stories of problems with Bushmaster, Del-Ton, DPMS, etc. than with Colt, BCM, DD or LMT.
I assume you mean the reasons are that there are FAR more DPMS and Bushmasters sold to non-LEO/Gov customers, and as they are more budget orientated, they are also much more likely to be fed the cheap, crap Russian ammo. Correct?
__________________
NRA Benefactor - Life Member
tnedator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 00:18   #26
DAIadvisor
Senior Member
 
DAIadvisor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kettering, OH
Posts: 2,439
Good basic rifle - just make sure you maintain it and you won't have any issues.
DAIadvisor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 00:43   #27
mjkeat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,450
During classes and at public ranges I make it a priority to make a mental note of the rifles I see fail. From my experiences I will stay away from DPMS, RGuns, Bushmaster, and Stag. My BCMs and DD have never let me down. There's no reason to take a risk w/ uncertainty in this market.

I have delt w/ hundreds of Colts and have only 1 bad memory. I had to clear a brass over bolt malfunction in a 6940.

Edit: The amount of hatred toward quality, on this forum, is saddening.

"Budget" "cheap" ammunition has never been an issue for any of the quality manufactured ARs I have had experience with. That is except a 12.5" Noveske. Ammunition makes a great scape goat.

Last edited by mjkeat; 01-27-2013 at 00:50..
mjkeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 00:46   #28
RyanBDawg
Senior Member
 
RyanBDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ooltewah Tennessee
Posts: 4,195
Just don't pay 2,000$ for it!

Every time I hear about one AR constantly malfunctioning over another, I wonder if the rifle was purchased by some newbie gun buyer who wants to look cool and has no idea how to disassemble the rifle, bolt carrier, etc and properly clean and maintain the rifle.

I agree, you probably hear about more malfunctions with Bushmaster, DPMS, etc because more of them have been sold, and many sold to people who have no idea what they are doing with the AR platform.

But in this wacky market, take what you can get as long as you aren't getting silly with the mark up..

Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
"I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
- Clint Eastwood

Glock 26 w/CTC Lasergrips, and Trijicon Sights = Daily Carry

Last edited by RyanBDawg; 01-27-2013 at 00:51..
RyanBDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 00:56   #29
mjkeat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
Just don't pay 2,000$ for it!

Every time I hear about one AR constantly malfunctioning over another, I wonder if the rifle was purchased by some newbie gun buyer who wants to look cool and has no idea how to disassemble the rifle, bolt carrier, etc and properly clean and maintain the rifle.

I agree, you probably hear about more malfunctions with Bushmaster, DPMS, etc because more of them have been sold, and many sold to people who have no idea what they are doing with the AR platform.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Highly doubt this has anything to do w/ it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to lubricate a firearm. All it takes for an AR to run reliably is lubrication. It has been proven time and again that M4/M16/AR will run with no cleaning for tens of thousands of rounds as long as you keep them lubricated.

How many Colts are put in the hands of "noobs?" Tens of thousands daily? I was one of them. I had a M16A4 placed in my hands and it functioned reliably even though I had never even seen one in my life before then. I wonder how many new recruits fresh off the street have the same experience. I bet it's a huge number.

A DPMS is a good $500-$600 AR.
mjkeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 01:03   #30
RyanBDawg
Senior Member
 
RyanBDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ooltewah Tennessee
Posts: 4,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post

A DPMS is a good $500-$600 AR.
Good luck finding any for that price OP!


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
"I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
- Clint Eastwood

Glock 26 w/CTC Lasergrips, and Trijicon Sights = Daily Carry
RyanBDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 06:14   #31
stooxie
NRA Life Member
 
stooxie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by larson1122 View Post
This is not a difficult concept. He asked for thoughts and feelings on DPMS, but for whatever reason you chose to talk about "Colt operators" instead. Believe it or not, people can have opinions about something without currently owning one, and I do not currently own one for the reasons outlined in this thread.
I dunno, I think this thread is going exactly how I said it would. The people who have DPMSs seem to vouch for them and the people with Colts/LMT/DD/etc insist that those very experiences can't be right.

Its like talking about 1911s. Do you really need a $5,000 Wilson Combat to get a working 1911? Or a $2,000 one? The people with the RIAs and other GI clones seem to think they work just fine and maybe they aren't expecting it to make it through Thunder Ranch.

If the AR-15 platform is SO finicky that only one or two brands will "function" then we should all be buying AKs instead. Somehow that bucket of pinball machine parts manages to go bang every time.

-Stooxie
__________________
It's a lot easier for the government to turn honest citizens into criminals than criminals into honest citizens.
stooxie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 06:32   #32
stooxie
NRA Life Member
 
stooxie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
Edit: The amount of hatred toward quality, on this forum, is saddening.
I don't think anyone is hating on "quality." I don't see anyone arguing that Colt/LMT/BCM/Noveske/DD/etc doesn't make an excellent product, better than the rest.

I don't argue against that either.

However, aside from a 6920 at Walmart, most of those rifles are significantly more expensive. The price difference may be attainable to some, not for others. What happens if you don't want a 6920? What happens if you want a rifle length gas system? What if you want a middy? What $1,000 Colt do I buy now? The MT6700 is (WAS) $1,300, which is maybe 80% more than a Bushy/RRA/DPMS/Del-ton?

It's just like going into a motorcycle dealer for a standard bike and having them talk you into a CBR600RR because the sales guy is an ex-racer and that's the only bike that he thinks will run when you turn the key. (Ask me how I know)

-Stooxie
__________________
It's a lot easier for the government to turn honest citizens into criminals than criminals into honest citizens.
stooxie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 08:31   #33
mjkeat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by stooxie View Post
I don't think anyone is hating on "quality." I don't see anyone arguing that Colt/LMT/BCM/Noveske/DD/etc doesn't make an excellent product, better than the rest.

I don't argue against that either.

However, aside from a 6920 at Walmart, most of those rifles are significantly more expensive. The price difference may be attainable to some, not for others. What happens if you don't want a 6920? What happens if you want a rifle length gas system? What if you want a middy? What $1,000 Colt do I buy now? The MT6700 is (WAS) $1,300, which is maybe 80% more than a Bushy/RRA/DPMS/Del-ton?

It's just like going into a motorcycle dealer for a standard bike and having them talk you into a CBR600RR because the sales guy is an ex-racer and that's the only bike that he thinks will run when you turn the key. (Ask me how I know)

-Stooxie
You make a valid point. I think if you looked into it a little closer you'll find the gap in price is much smaller than you imagine.

For example, look at the DPMS "MOE Warrior" as compared to the 6920 or a "standard" middy upper from BCM which you can put on the lower of your choice. You'll see that although prices may only be a couple hundred apart the gap in quality is tremendous.

Basically when comparing apples to apples companies like Colt and BCM offer a huge value.

Don't forget about the M&P Sport. I've shot a couple and they are solid and in the $700 price range.

I'm not a big 1911 guy but w/ ARs it's an issue of reliability. As you've seen here and other places certain ARs are more synonymous w/ reliability.

If you are ok w/ cutting corners DPMS or Olympic can get you into an AR for less.
mjkeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 08:35   #34
billy b
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: ohio
Posts: 229
to some people on here if your rifle is not a colt it's a pos.i have a dpms oracle. it has been 100% relible with mostly reloads. and it's accurate. i also have a dpms stainless 24'' upper. it will shoot 1\2'' groups at 200 yards. but since it's not a colt all that doesn' t matter.
billy b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 09:45   #35
LA_357SIG
Milspectacular
 
LA_357SIG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Not Los Angeles.
Posts: 1,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
Highly doubt this has anything to do w/ it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to lubricate a firearm. All it takes for an AR to run reliably is lubrication. It has been proven time and again that M4/M16/AR will run with no cleaning for tens of thousands of rounds as long as you keep them lubricated.

How many Colts are put in the hands of "noobs?" Tens of thousands daily? I was one of them. I had a M16A4 placed in my hands and it functioned reliably even though I had never even seen one in my life before then. I wonder how many new recruits fresh off the street have the same experience. I bet it's a huge number.

A DPMS is a good $500-$600 AR.
The M16A4 put in your hands 1. Probably had thousands of rounds put through it before you and 2.) was part of an organized maintenance program carried out by a trained company level armorer. Uncle Sam didn't just drop by Colt Defense or FN, picked you up an A4 hand you a box and said "here go do some shootin'."

Sent from my ADR6350
__________________
"If I was you I would keep it just like it is... and shoot the **** out of it until something breaks. Then replace whatever it is and keep shooting."
LA_357SIG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 13:59   #36
WoodenPlank
Who?
 
WoodenPlank's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 7,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by billy b View Post
to some people on here if your rifle is not a colt it's a pos.i have a dpms oracle. it has been 100% relible with mostly reloads. and it's accurate. i also have a dpms stainless 24'' upper. it will shoot 1\2'' groups at 200 yards. but since it's not a colt all that doesn' t matter.
Your DPMS shoots groups on par with the word's best, custom made sniper rifles?

Sorry if I find that a little hard to believe.
__________________
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
WoodenPlank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 15:34   #37
Made in Austria
Senior Member
 
Made in Austria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,730
I think the lifetime, durability, selection of certain materials, precision, testing/research, and metal treatments are the biggest differences between an lower grade rifle and an higher grade rifle like BCM, Colt, etc. I am sure that most DPMS rifles work great out of the box, but the question is how long will it run great?

High end rifle makers put so much effort into precision, making fine and long lasting + highly reliable BCG's possible, and of couse paying a lot of attention to other important components of a rifle. I think this is why I personaly prefer higher grade rifles/components, because I love strong/long lasting build stuff.

It all comes down to what you want and how much $$$ you can/want to spend. You get a lower grade rifle for less dollars. You can get a higher grade rifle for more dollars.

Last edited by Made in Austria; 01-27-2013 at 15:35..
Made in Austria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 15:46   #38
bmoore
Senior Member
 
bmoore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Under a regime.
Posts: 4,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by billy b View Post
to some people on here if your rifle is not a colt it's a pos.i have a dpms oracle. it has been 100% relible with mostly reloads. and it's accurate. i also have a dpms stainless 24'' upper. it will shoot 1\2'' groups at 200 yards. but since it's not a colt all that doesn' t matter.
1/2" groups at 200 yards? What load are you running, bullet weight? Powder? What is the twist? What glass is on that thing?
__________________
RIP Okie

Last edited by bmoore; 01-27-2013 at 15:47..
bmoore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 17:02   #39
billy b
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: ohio
Posts: 229
55 nosler balistic tip. 27.0 748. averages 3250. once fired sorted brass. i have a bushmaster h-bar that will shoot that same load around 1 1\4 at 200 yards. sightron 6x24 on dpms. nikon 6x18 on bush. i have been shooting & reloading a lot of years & know how to get the best out of my guns. if you colt guys don't want to believe that a non colt can do that i could care less.
billy b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 17:18   #40
bmoore
Senior Member
 
bmoore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Under a regime.
Posts: 4,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by billy b View Post
55 nosler balistic tip. 27.0 748. averages 3250. once fired sorted brass. i have a bushmaster h-bar that will shoot that same load around 1 1\4 at 200 yards. sightron 6x24 on dpms. nikon 6x18 on bush. i have been shooting & reloading a lot of years & know how to get the best out of my guns. if you colt guys don't want to believe that a non colt can do that i could care less.
I don't think it has anything to do with Colt. What you fail to understand is that people don't buy Colts for accuracy, they buy them for reliablitiy into the thousands and thousands of rounds.
__________________
RIP Okie
bmoore is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:06.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,418
434 Members
984 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42