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Old 01-26-2013, 18:36   #1
TXDiesel
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10mm auto

Howdy, new guy here. Just wanted to share some of my experiences with the 10mm. I have been working with various components and would like to share some trends that I have noticed...
the best performing combination has been 180grain gold dot hollow point over enough 800x to push it to around 1,450 fps. This velocity out of my 3rd gen glock 20 6" lone wolf barrel penetrates right at 14" of gel with and thus deposits its aprx 840lbs on energy into the target.

Take a look at this animal that was taken in Young County, Texas. first shot entered behind the right front leg and the second impacted in the armpit on the same side. Heart and lungs were basically jelly and both slugs were recovered just below the skin on the opposite side.

This pig was 7feet long as we measured it from hooves to snout while hanging from this tractor. we did not have a scale large enough to weigh the beast, but look at the expansion from these two rounds compared to this man's size 11.5 ring.

Same story with whitetails, and other mammals. since the 10mm is .400 diam, components are relatively inexpensive.

the G20 holds 15+1 rounds of 10mm, is it the best combat handgun for a reloader?
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Old 01-26-2013, 19:53   #2
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I have a G20 Gen2 with the Lone Wolf 6". I have had about the same experinece as you. Don't think I have taken a pig quite that big.

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Old 01-26-2013, 21:05   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXDiesel View Post
Howdy, new guy here. Just wanted to share some of my experiences with the 10mm. I have been working with various components and would like to share some trends that I have noticed...
the best performing combination has been 180grain gold dot hollow point over enough 800x to push it to around 1,450 fps. This velocity out of my 3rd gen glock 20 6" lone wolf barrel penetrates right at 14" of gel with and thus deposits its aprx 840lbs on energy into the target.

Take a look at this animal that was taken in Young County, Texas. first shot entered behind the right front leg and the second impacted in the armpit on the same side. Heart and lungs were basically jelly and both slugs were recovered just below the skin on the opposite side.

This pig was 7feet long as we measured it from hooves to snout while hanging from this tractor. we did not have a scale large enough to weigh the beast, but look at the expansion from these two rounds compared to this man's size 11.5 ring.

Same story with whitetails, and other mammals. since the 10mm is .400 diam, components are relatively inexpensive.

the G20 holds 15+1 rounds of 10mm, is it the best combat handgun for a reloader?
Exactly how much 800x was it?
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:51   #4
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That is one big pig. I hope you don't load that hot for use as a "combat handgun" because that load is major overkill (no pun intended) for self defense. Getting 180gr bullet to 1300fps would be preferred by most and 1200fps is plenty.

For guns and gunners that can handle the loads, yes the 10mm auto is a top cartridge. You are getting 41 magnum ballistics in a high capacity auto-pistol!
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:19   #5
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Shouldn't this be in the Reloading Forum? I have a feeling that your reloads are way over max as well.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:53   #6
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Is it the best, well it's certainly a good choice for sure, but everyone has their opinions. I'm sure the 460 Rowland guys might have something to say about it vs. the 10mm. I load for the .45 Super which is a hammer also, shooting 255gr hardcasts @ 1150 fps and 200gr jhp's at 1350 fps from a 5" barrel with 13+1 capacity. Both shoot bigger, heavier bullets than the 10mm plenty fast enough for most critters, and those big hardcasts penetrate extremely well which is what you want on big pigs. I would prefer to grab my .45 Colt Bisley over any semi auto though, I just have a love for single action big bores.

I understand the appeal of having a semi auto pistol that can cover all bases, from personal protection to using it in the field on occasion. I for one like the .40 S&W just fine and feel it offers more than enough. The advantage the .40 brings is that I get longer sight radius with the G35 (or even better the G24) than I could with the G20, plus I like the size of the .40 Glocks better than the larger framed 10mm and I get the same 15+1 capacity. Also as a reloader, .40 brass is much cheaper (essentially free) and it's a little stronger than 10mm brass. Throw in a six inch barrel and some worked up handloads and it's capable of 1400 fps with a 180gr JHP as well, although that much velocity is not needed for deer sized game, but it's there if I want it.

On something the size of that pig I might have opted for a 200gr WFNGC hardcast or a 180gr RNFP hardcast instead because penetration is your friend. If I had to use a JHP I would have used a 200gr XTP @ ~1250 fps from the 6" .40 (also using 800X). But hardcast is where it's at with bigger animals as most .400" JHP bullets are designed for typical "factory level" .40 velocity, which means when pushed hard they often penetrate LESS. For a hollow point, I like the XTP as they seem to penetrate a bit better than other jhp designs even if they don't expand as much.

Is the 10mm the best? If by best you mean a little faster than the .40, then yes, but not by much. Better than the .45 Super/460 Rowland, I certainly don't think it is. The added cost of the 10mm over the .40 and it giving only minimal improvements doesn't make it worth it to me, but I'm sure others disagree, and that's fine. If I need bigger than the .40 or .45 Super, I'm moving up to my SRH 454 or Bisley .45 Colt.
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Old 01-27-2013, 19:12   #7
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thats what i'm sayin'

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Originally Posted by FishyOne View Post
That is one big pig. I hope you don't load that hot for use as a "combat handgun" because that load is major overkill (no pun intended) for self defense. Getting 180gr bullet to 1300fps would be preferred by most and 1200fps is plenty.

For guns and gunners that can handle the loads, yes the 10mm auto is a top cartridge. You are getting 41 magnum ballistics in a high capacity auto-pistol!

Major overkill?? if you intend to kill something, how can you overkill it??

The results of my tests showed that this bullet loaded to a lower velocity will penetrate about 5.5 inches further...if you speed up the velocity to around 1,450, the gold dot flowers earlier and dumps all its energy before blowing through.
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Old 01-27-2013, 20:39   #8
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That is one big pig!

I'd bust him with my G31!! HAHAHA!!
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Old 01-27-2013, 21:02   #9
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Originally Posted by SDGlock23 View Post

Is the 10mm the best? If by best you mean a little faster than the .40, then yes, but not by much. .
Dude I've seen your posts drooling over the 460.

Although a cool round it's just not all you're making it out to be. It's an amazing niche round with the comp on the front.

And to say that 10 is not much faster and producing vastly more KE than a 40 shows just how blinded you are by your fetish with that round. It can throw 200 fps or much more than a 40.

I'm sorry then did you say you like the smaller caliber frames like 40 over the 10 and then went on and drooled all over a g21 in 460 for crying out loud. Am I the only one that caught that.
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Old 01-27-2013, 21:30   #10
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Major overkill?? if you intend to kill something, how can you overkill it??

The results of my tests showed that this bullet loaded to a lower velocity will penetrate about 5.5 inches further...if you speed up the velocity to around 1,450, the gold dot flowers earlier and dumps all its energy before blowing through.
Won't argue your point accept to say anyone who thinks they need 700 or 800 ft-lbs of energy for effective self defense is mistaken. Half that energy is plenty with shot placement and follow up speed far more important than sheer power.
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Old 01-27-2013, 21:54   #11
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Won't argue your point accept to say anyone who thinks they need 700 or 800 ft-lbs of energy for effective self defense is mistaken. Half that energy is plenty with shot placement and follow up speed far more important than sheer power.
Just ask the dude that took 5 .38 specials from the work at home mom in Ga. a couple of weeks ago. If he's conscious yet he may only be able to nod.
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Old 01-27-2013, 21:54   #12
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the 10mm (Glocks) can be had in mid sized or full sized, with watered down .40cal power loads or full house 10mm loads and most anything in betwix.

simply awsome.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:04   #13
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Originally Posted by RYT 2BER View Post
Dude I've seen your posts drooling over the 460.

Although a cool round it's just not all you're making it out to be. It's an amazing niche round with the comp on the front.

And to say that 10 is not much faster and producing vastly more KE than a 40 shows just how blinded you are by your fetish with that round. It can throw 200 fps or much more than a 40.

I'm sorry then did you say you like the smaller caliber frames like 40 over the 10 and then went on and drooled all over a g21 in 460 for crying out loud. Am I the only one that caught that.
Naw man you've got me confused, I don't drool over the 460 Rowland myself, others perhaps but not me. I'm satisfied with the .45 Super, which yes is on a larger .45 frame, a G21 Gen4 to be exact. I do still much prefer the .40 sized frames as a whole.

As for 10mm being much faster than a .40, well it's not. I should probably ask though what your definition of "much" is. Here's how I view it, the extra 100-150 fps the 10mm would give me over the .40 isn't something I find useful, or maybe a better word is worthwhile. What is a 180gr JHP at 1450 fps (hot 10mm) going to give me that a 180gr JHP at 1350 fps (hot .40) isn't? Will the slightly faster round kill absolutely while the slightly slower round won't kill at all?

Then take into account that even at 1300+ that bullet is being pushed beyond what it's designed for anyways, so faster really isn't helping at that point, even potentially limiting penetration. Both are plenty flat shooting for anything within 75, even 100 yds and both have plenty of power on tap for medium sized game. I just choose .40, if you or anyone else choose 10mm that's fine, but one isn't far and away superior to the other.
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Old 01-28-2013, 17:31   #14
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Naw man you've got me confused, I don't drool over the 460 Rowland myself, others perhaps but not me. I'm satisfied with the .45 Super, which yes is on a larger .45 frame, a G21 Gen4 to be exact. I do still much prefer the .40 sized frames as a whole.

As for 10mm being much faster than a .40, well it's not. I should probably ask though what your definition of "much" is. Here's how I view it, the extra 100-150 fps the 10mm would give me over the .40 isn't something I find useful, or maybe a better word is worthwhile. What is a 180gr JHP at 1450 fps (hot 10mm) going to give me that a 180gr JHP at 1350 fps (hot .40) isn't? Will the slightly faster round kill absolutely while the slightly slower round won't kill at all?

Then take into account that even at 1300+ that bullet is being pushed beyond what it's designed for anyways, so faster really isn't helping at that point, even potentially limiting penetration. Both are plenty flat shooting for anything within 75, even 100 yds and both have plenty of power on tap for medium sized game. I just choose .40, if you or anyone else choose 10mm that's fine, but one isn't far and away superior to the other.
I hear you. But I guess my confusion stems from your velocity numbers. Exactly what .40 180 gr bullet is going 1350?? For the record, underwood hot 180 gr +p .40 is rated at 1100 and his stuff is about as hot as it gets.

I have to call major bs until I see 180 gr .40 doing the velocity numbers you are talking about. Which is why you are mistaken thinking .40 and 10 are 150 ft /sec different
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Old 01-28-2013, 18:18   #15
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If you take your 40 cal vs 10 mm pig hunting often, you will soon see the light. If you decided to take on pigs the size of the one posted you would learn the lesson real quickly.

I understand combat shooting, multiply hits, recoil recovery, accuracy, capacity. They are not important in hunting situations. To a great extent there is no comparison.

Hunting, perfect bullet placement with all the energy and bullet performance you can get, is what i'm after. I doubt you could put two rounds in the right spot no matter how good your split time is. Pigs are fast. Put all your money on the first shot.

Use your 40 cal for carry. Pigs are a lot tougher than humans.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:02   #16
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I hear you. But I guess my confusion stems from your velocity numbers. Exactly what .40 180 gr bullet is going 1350?? For the record, underwood hot 180 gr +p .40 is rated at 1100 and his stuff is about as hot as it gets.

I have to call major bs until I see 180 gr .40 doing the velocity numbers you are talking about. Which is why you are mistaken thinking .40 and 10 are 150 ft /sec different
I love 10mm and 40. The 10mm has at best 20% more velocity for same bullets (heavy) and 10-15% more with 135-165 gr. It's still worth it when hucking 200 gr. slugs 40-60 yards at dangerous animals. A 200 gr. @1,200 muzzle will have a lot more energy at 50 yards than a 165 gr. @ 1,200 muzzle. It will also have more velocity and better penetration.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:40   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXDiesel View Post
Howdy, new guy here. Just wanted to share some of my experiences with the 10mm. I have been working with various components and would like to share some trends that I have noticed...
the best performing combination has been 180grain gold dot hollow point over enough 800x to push it to around 1,450 fps. This velocity out of my 3rd gen glock 20 6" lone wolf barrel penetrates right at 14" of gel with and thus deposits its aprx 840lbs on energy into the target.

Take a look at this animal that was taken in Young County, Texas. first shot entered behind the right front leg and the second impacted in the armpit on the same side. Heart and lungs were basically jelly and both slugs were recovered just below the skin on the opposite side.

This pig was 7feet long as we measured it from hooves to snout while hanging from this tractor. we did not have a scale large enough to weigh the beast, but look at the expansion from these two rounds compared to this man's size 11.5 ring.

Same story with whitetails, and other mammals. since the 10mm is .400 diam, components are relatively inexpensive.

the G20 holds 15+1 rounds of 10mm, is it the best combat handgun for a reloader?
You have a lot of exper shooting the 10mm.
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Old 01-29-2013, 13:16   #18
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I love 10mm and 40. The 10mm has at best 20% more velocity for same bullets (heavy) and 10-15% more with 135-165 gr. It's still worth it when hucking 200 gr. slugs 40-60 yards at dangerous animals. A 200 gr. @1,200 muzzle will have a lot more energy at 50 yards than a 165 gr. @ 1,200 muzzle. It will also have more velocity and better penetration.

Exactly... That 200 ft/sec for example on a 180 grain bullet isnt anything to sneeze at 20% may not sound like alot to some people but in the real world 200 ft/second increased velocity isnt a joke..

Now if you "need" that or not or if its important is a bigger question.. but its the same kind of question of saying do you really need 357 mag over a 38 spl. It really is exactly the same question... It is a function of do you need a magnum style version of one round or another...

But to say that from a kinetic energy perspective or from a velocity perspective that .40 and 10mm are the same is crazy...
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Old 01-29-2013, 14:11   #19
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Good info.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:42   #20
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Originally Posted by SDGlock23 View Post
Is it the best, well it's certainly a good choice for sure, but everyone has their opinions. I'm sure the 460 Rowland guys might have something to say about it vs. the 10mm. I load for the .45 Super which is a hammer also, shooting 255gr hardcasts @ 1150 fps and 200gr jhp's at 1350 fps from a 5" barrel with 13+1 capacity. Both shoot bigger, heavier bullets than the 10mm plenty fast enough for most critters, and those big hardcasts penetrate extremely well which is what you want on big pigs. I would prefer to grab my .45 Colt Bisley over any semi auto though, I just have a love for single action big bores.

I understand the appeal of having a semi auto pistol that can cover all bases, from personal protection to using it in the field on occasion. I for one like the .40 S&W just fine and feel it offers more than enough. The advantage the .40 brings is that I get longer sight radius with the G35 (or even better the G24) than I could with the G20, plus I like the size of the .40 Glocks better than the larger framed 10mm and I get the same 15+1 capacity. Also as a reloader, .40 brass is much cheaper (essentially free) and it's a little stronger than 10mm brass. Throw in a six inch barrel and some worked up handloads and it's capable of 1400 fps with a 180gr JHP as well, although that much velocity is not needed for deer sized game, but it's there if I want it.

On something the size of that pig I might have opted for a 200gr WFNGC hardcast or a 180gr RNFP hardcast instead because penetration is your friend. If I had to use a JHP I would have used a 200gr XTP @ ~1250 fps from the 6" .40 (also using 800X). But hardcast is where it's at with bigger animals as most .400" JHP bullets are designed for typical "factory level" .40 velocity, which means when pushed hard they often penetrate LESS. For a hollow point, I like the XTP as they seem to penetrate a bit better than other jhp designs even if they don't expand as much.

Is the 10mm the best? If by best you mean a little faster than the .40, then yes, but not by much. Better than the .45 Super/460 Rowland, I certainly don't think it is. The added cost of the 10mm over the .40 and it giving only minimal improvements doesn't make it worth it to me, but I'm sure others disagree, and that's fine. If I need bigger than the .40 or .45 Super, I'm moving up to my SRH 454 or Bisley .45 Colt.
Surely you have better things to do with your time than posting this.
If you dont like the 10MM thats OK BUT he just SHOWED how powerfull the 10MM is with the 180gr GD and you should be congratulating him not give a speech about how great your cartridge is and how lacking the 10 is and what he should do differently.

Sean

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