[TXDiesel]

Howdy, new guy here. Just wanted to share some of my experiences with the 10mm. I have been working with various components and would like to share some trends that I have noticed...
the best performing combination has been 180grain gold dot hollow point over enough 800x to push it to around 1,450 fps. This velocity out of my 3rd gen glock 20 6" lone wolf barrel penetrates right at 14" of gel with and thus deposits its aprx 840lbs on energy into the target.

Take a look at this animal that was taken in Young County, Texas. first shot entered behind the right front leg and the second impacted in the armpit on the same side. Heart and lungs were basically jelly and both slugs were recovered just below the skin on the opposite side.

This pig was 7feet long as we measured it from hooves to snout while hanging from this tractor. we did not have a scale large enough to weigh the beast, but look at the expansion from these two rounds compared to this man's size 11.5 ring.

Same story with whitetails, and other mammals. since the 10mm is .400 diam, components are relatively inexpensive.

the G20 holds 15+1 rounds of 10mm, is it the best combat handgun for a reloader?

[rustytxrx]

I have a G20 Gen2 with the Lone Wolf 6". I have had about the same experinece as you. Don't think I have taken a pig quite that big.

[RYT 2BER]

Originally Posted by TXDiesel

Howdy, new guy here. Just wanted to share some of my experiences with the 10mm. I have been working with various components and would like to share some trends that I have noticed...
the best performing combination has been 180grain gold dot hollow point over enough 800x to push it to around 1,450 fps. This velocity out of my 3rd gen glock 20 6" lone wolf barrel penetrates right at 14" of gel with and thus deposits its aprx 840lbs on energy into the target.

Take a look at this animal that was taken in Young County, Texas. first shot entered behind the right front leg and the second impacted in the armpit on the same side. Heart and lungs were basically jelly and both slugs were recovered just below the skin on the opposite side.

This pig was 7feet long as we measured it from hooves to snout while hanging from this tractor. we did not have a scale large enough to weigh the beast, but look at the expansion from these two rounds compared to this man's size 11.5 ring.

Same story with whitetails, and other mammals. since the 10mm is .400 diam, components are relatively inexpensive.

the G20 holds 15+1 rounds of 10mm, is it the best combat handgun for a reloader?

Exactly how much 800x was it?

[FishyOne]

That is one big pig. I hope you don't load that hot for use as a "combat handgun" because that load is major overkill (no pun intended) for self defense. Getting 180gr bullet to 1300fps would be preferred by most and 1200fps is plenty.

For guns and gunners that can handle the loads, yes the 10mm auto is a top cartridge. You are getting 41 magnum ballistics in a high capacity auto-pistol!

[Tiro Fijo]

Shouldn't this be in the Reloading Forum? I have a feeling that your reloads are way over max as well.

[SDGlock23]

Is it the best, well it's certainly a good choice for sure, but everyone has their opinions. I'm sure the 460 Rowland guys might have something to say about it vs. the 10mm. I load for the .45 Super which is a hammer also, shooting 255gr hardcasts @ 1150 fps and 200gr jhp's at 1350 fps from a 5" barrel with 13+1 capacity. Both shoot bigger, heavier bullets than the 10mm plenty fast enough for most critters, and those big hardcasts penetrate extremely well which is what you want on big pigs. I would prefer to grab my .45 Colt Bisley over any semi auto though, I just have a love for single action big bores.

I understand the appeal of having a semi auto pistol that can cover all bases, from personal protection to using it in the field on occasion. I for one like the .40 S&W just fine and feel it offers more than enough. The advantage the .40 brings is that I get longer sight radius with the G35 (or even better the G24) than I could with the G20, plus I like the size of the .40 Glocks better than the larger framed 10mm and I get the same 15+1 capacity. Also as a reloader, .40 brass is much cheaper (essentially free) and it's a little stronger than 10mm brass. Throw in a six inch barrel and some worked up handloads and it's capable of 1400 fps with a 180gr JHP as well, although that much velocity is not needed for deer sized game, but it's there if I want it.

On something the size of that pig I might have opted for a 200gr WFNGC hardcast or a 180gr RNFP hardcast instead because penetration is your friend. If I had to use a JHP I would have used a 200gr XTP @ ~1250 fps from the 6" .40 (also using 800X). But hardcast is where it's at with bigger animals as most .400" JHP bullets are designed for typical "factory level" .40 velocity, which means when pushed hard they often penetrate LESS. For a hollow point, I like the XTP as they seem to penetrate a bit better than other jhp designs even if they don't expand as much.

Is the 10mm the best? If by best you mean a little faster than the .40, then yes, but not by much. Better than the .45 Super/460 Rowland, I certainly don't think it is. The added cost of the 10mm over the .40 and it giving only minimal improvements doesn't make it worth it to me, but I'm sure others disagree, and that's fine. If I need bigger than the .40 or .45 Super, I'm moving up to my SRH 454 or Bisley .45 Colt.

[TXDiesel]

Originally Posted by FishyOne

That is one big pig. I hope you don't load that hot for use as a "combat handgun" because that load is major overkill (no pun intended) for self defense. Getting 180gr bullet to 1300fps would be preferred by most and 1200fps is plenty.

For guns and gunners that can handle the loads, yes the 10mm auto is a top cartridge. You are getting 41 magnum ballistics in a high capacity auto-pistol!

Major overkill?? if you intend to kill something, how can you overkill it??

The results of my tests showed that this bullet loaded to a lower velocity will penetrate about 5.5 inches further...if you speed up the velocity to around 1,450, the gold dot flowers earlier and dumps all its energy before blowing through.

[Rev.357]

That is one big pig!

I'd bust him with my G31!! HAHAHA!!

[RYT 2BER]

Originally Posted by SDGlock23

Is the 10mm the best? If by best you mean a little faster than the .40, then yes, but not by much. .

Dude I've seen your posts drooling over the 460.

Although a cool round it's just not all you're making it out to be. It's an amazing niche round with the comp on the front.

And to say that 10 is not much faster and producing vastly more KE than a 40 shows just how blinded you are by your fetish with that round. It can throw 200 fps or much more than a 40.

I'm sorry then did you say you like the smaller caliber frames like 40 over the 10 and then went on and drooled all over a g21 in 460 for crying out loud. Am I the only one that caught that.

[FishyOne]

Originally Posted by TXDiesel

Major overkill?? if you intend to kill something, how can you overkill it??

The results of my tests showed that this bullet loaded to a lower velocity will penetrate about 5.5 inches further...if you speed up the velocity to around 1,450, the gold dot flowers earlier and dumps all its energy before blowing through.

Won't argue your point accept to say anyone who thinks they need 700 or 800 ft-lbs of energy for effective self defense is mistaken. Half that energy is plenty with shot placement and follow up speed far more important than sheer power.

[wlkjr]

Originally Posted by FishyOne

Won't argue your point accept to say anyone who thinks they need 700 or 800 ft-lbs of energy for effective self defense is mistaken. Half that energy is plenty with shot placement and follow up speed far more important than sheer power.

Just ask the dude that took 5 .38 specials from the work at home mom in Ga. a couple of weeks ago. If he's conscious yet he may only be able to nod.

[cowboywannabe]

the 10mm (Glocks) can be had in mid sized or full sized, with watered down .40cal power loads or full house 10mm loads and most anything in betwix.

simply awsome.

[SDGlock23]

Originally Posted by RYT 2BER

Dude I've seen your posts drooling over the 460.

Although a cool round it's just not all you're making it out to be. It's an amazing niche round with the comp on the front.

And to say that 10 is not much faster and producing vastly more KE than a 40 shows just how blinded you are by your fetish with that round. It can throw 200 fps or much more than a 40.

I'm sorry then did you say you like the smaller caliber frames like 40 over the 10 and then went on and drooled all over a g21 in 460 for crying out loud. Am I the only one that caught that.

Naw man you've got me confused, I don't drool over the 460 Rowland myself, others perhaps but not me. I'm satisfied with the .45 Super, which yes is on a larger .45 frame, a G21 Gen4 to be exact. I do still much prefer the .40 sized frames as a whole.

As for 10mm being much faster than a .40, well it's not. I should probably ask though what your definition of "much" is. Here's how I view it, the extra 100-150 fps the 10mm would give me over the .40 isn't something I find useful, or maybe a better word is worthwhile. What is a 180gr JHP at 1450 fps (hot 10mm) going to give me that a 180gr JHP at 1350 fps (hot .40) isn't? Will the slightly faster round kill absolutely while the slightly slower round won't kill at all?

Then take into account that even at 1300+ that bullet is being pushed beyond what it's designed for anyways, so faster really isn't helping at that point, even potentially limiting penetration. Both are plenty flat shooting for anything within 75, even 100 yds and both have plenty of power on tap for medium sized game. I just choose .40, if you or anyone else choose 10mm that's fine, but one isn't far and away superior to the other.

[RYT 2BER]

Originally Posted by SDGlock23

Naw man you've got me confused, I don't drool over the 460 Rowland myself, others perhaps but not me. I'm satisfied with the .45 Super, which yes is on a larger .45 frame, a G21 Gen4 to be exact. I do still much prefer the .40 sized frames as a whole.

As for 10mm being much faster than a .40, well it's not. I should probably ask though what your definition of "much" is. Here's how I view it, the extra 100-150 fps the 10mm would give me over the .40 isn't something I find useful, or maybe a better word is worthwhile. What is a 180gr JHP at 1450 fps (hot 10mm) going to give me that a 180gr JHP at 1350 fps (hot .40) isn't? Will the slightly faster round kill absolutely while the slightly slower round won't kill at all?

Then take into account that even at 1300+ that bullet is being pushed beyond what it's designed for anyways, so faster really isn't helping at that point, even potentially limiting penetration. Both are plenty flat shooting for anything within 75, even 100 yds and both have plenty of power on tap for medium sized game. I just choose .40, if you or anyone else choose 10mm that's fine, but one isn't far and away superior to the other.

I hear you. But I guess my confusion stems from your velocity numbers. Exactly what .40 180 gr bullet is going 1350?? For the record, underwood hot 180 gr +p .40 is rated at 1100 and his stuff is about as hot as it gets.

I have to call major bs until I see 180 gr .40 doing the velocity numbers you are talking about. Which is why you are mistaken thinking .40 and 10 are 150 ft /sec different

[rustytxrx]

If you take your 40 cal vs 10 mm pig hunting often, you will soon see the light. If you decided to take on pigs the size of the one posted you would learn the lesson real quickly.

I understand combat shooting, multiply hits, recoil recovery, accuracy, capacity. They are not important in hunting situations. To a great extent there is no comparison.

Hunting, perfect bullet placement with all the energy and bullet performance you can get, is what i'm after. I doubt you could put two rounds in the right spot no matter how good your split time is. Pigs are fast. Put all your money on the first shot.

Use your 40 cal for carry. Pigs are a lot tougher than humans.

[gatorboy]

Originally Posted by RYT 2BER

I hear you. But I guess my confusion stems from your velocity numbers. Exactly what .40 180 gr bullet is going 1350?? For the record, underwood hot 180 gr +p .40 is rated at 1100 and his stuff is about as hot as it gets.

I have to call major bs until I see 180 gr .40 doing the velocity numbers you are talking about. Which is why you are mistaken thinking .40 and 10 are 150 ft /sec different

I love 10mm and 40. The 10mm has at best 20% more velocity for same bullets (heavy) and 10-15% more with 135-165 gr. It's still worth it when hucking 200 gr. slugs 40-60 yards at dangerous animals. A 200 gr. @1,200 muzzle will have a lot more energy at 50 yards than a 165 gr. @ 1,200 muzzle. It will also have more velocity and better penetration.

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by TXDiesel

Howdy, new guy here. Just wanted to share some of my experiences with the 10mm. I have been working with various components and would like to share some trends that I have noticed...
the best performing combination has been 180grain gold dot hollow point over enough 800x to push it to around 1,450 fps. This velocity out of my 3rd gen glock 20 6" lone wolf barrel penetrates right at 14" of gel with and thus deposits its aprx 840lbs on energy into the target.

Take a look at this animal that was taken in Young County, Texas. first shot entered behind the right front leg and the second impacted in the armpit on the same side. Heart and lungs were basically jelly and both slugs were recovered just below the skin on the opposite side.

This pig was 7feet long as we measured it from hooves to snout while hanging from this tractor. we did not have a scale large enough to weigh the beast, but look at the expansion from these two rounds compared to this man's size 11.5 ring.

Same story with whitetails, and other mammals. since the 10mm is .400 diam, components are relatively inexpensive.

the G20 holds 15+1 rounds of 10mm, is it the best combat handgun for a reloader?

You have a lot of exper shooting the 10mm.

[RYT 2BER]

Originally Posted by gatorboy

I love 10mm and 40. The 10mm has at best 20% more velocity for same bullets (heavy) and 10-15% more with 135-165 gr. It's still worth it when hucking 200 gr. slugs 40-60 yards at dangerous animals. A 200 gr. @1,200 muzzle will have a lot more energy at 50 yards than a 165 gr. @ 1,200 muzzle. It will also have more velocity and better penetration.

Exactly... That 200 ft/sec for example on a 180 grain bullet isnt anything to sneeze at 20% may not sound like alot to some people but in the real world 200 ft/second increased velocity isnt a joke..

Now if you "need" that or not or if its important is a bigger question.. but its the same kind of question of saying do you really need 357 mag over a 38 spl. It really is exactly the same question... It is a function of do you need a magnum style version of one round or another...

But to say that from a kinetic energy perspective or from a velocity perspective that .40 and 10mm are the same is crazy...

[ThinkMud]

Good info.

[475-480]

Originally Posted by SDGlock23

Is it the best, well it's certainly a good choice for sure, but everyone has their opinions. I'm sure the 460 Rowland guys might have something to say about it vs. the 10mm. I load for the .45 Super which is a hammer also, shooting 255gr hardcasts @ 1150 fps and 200gr jhp's at 1350 fps from a 5" barrel with 13+1 capacity. Both shoot bigger, heavier bullets than the 10mm plenty fast enough for most critters, and those big hardcasts penetrate extremely well which is what you want on big pigs. I would prefer to grab my .45 Colt Bisley over any semi auto though, I just have a love for single action big bores.

I understand the appeal of having a semi auto pistol that can cover all bases, from personal protection to using it in the field on occasion. I for one like the .40 S&W just fine and feel it offers more than enough. The advantage the .40 brings is that I get longer sight radius with the G35 (or even better the G24) than I could with the G20, plus I like the size of the .40 Glocks better than the larger framed 10mm and I get the same 15+1 capacity. Also as a reloader, .40 brass is much cheaper (essentially free) and it's a little stronger than 10mm brass. Throw in a six inch barrel and some worked up handloads and it's capable of 1400 fps with a 180gr JHP as well, although that much velocity is not needed for deer sized game, but it's there if I want it.

On something the size of that pig I might have opted for a 200gr WFNGC hardcast or a 180gr RNFP hardcast instead because penetration is your friend. If I had to use a JHP I would have used a 200gr XTP @ ~1250 fps from the 6" .40 (also using 800X). But hardcast is where it's at with bigger animals as most .400" JHP bullets are designed for typical "factory level" .40 velocity, which means when pushed hard they often penetrate LESS. For a hollow point, I like the XTP as they seem to penetrate a bit better than other jhp designs even if they don't expand as much.

Is the 10mm the best? If by best you mean a little faster than the .40, then yes, but not by much. Better than the .45 Super/460 Rowland, I certainly don't think it is. The added cost of the 10mm over the .40 and it giving only minimal improvements doesn't make it worth it to me, but I'm sure others disagree, and that's fine. If I need bigger than the .40 or .45 Super, I'm moving up to my SRH 454 or Bisley .45 Colt.

Surely you have better things to do with your time than posting this.
If you dont like the 10MM thats OK BUT he just SHOWED how powerfull the 10MM is with the 180gr GD and you should be congratulating him not give a speech about how great your cartridge is and how lacking the 10 is and what he should do differently.

Sean

[rustytxrx]

If Charley Brown was Everyman then the Glock G20 is Charley Brown's hunting semiauto pistol. Dependable, hunting accuracy, and in the price range. The G20 and the 10mm hold a remarkable niche.

After the G20 the price starts up and can go way up. Ya can easily spend $3k on a 1911 10mm.

I can tell you for a fact, that the 10mm will get the job done. The only thing is......you still have to do your part. For bigger game the 10mm doesn't allow for poor marksmanship.

[Cwlongshot]

Love my G20!

I have two Delta Elite Colts. I bought the first as soon as they where offered. I shot a couple boxes of Norma ammo and realized the Colt ain't exactly built for its power! Over the next 15 years I shot it on and off. Then bought a G20. Short hoy after a KKM6" barrel. Then better sights and some trigger improvements. Then worked up some loads around a 200g XTP and Longshot.
I shot my first deer with the 10mm this past season. I used a factory Silvertip with excellent Results!

I also have a Ruger Bisley 45 Colt as a hunting gun. I like them both and shoot both well but the Ruger is more accurate at over 50 yards. Both easily handle 2" @ 50 but the Ruger is not quite 4"@100 while the GLOCK is closer to 8"@100. MOST of that is the broader GLOCK sites. I'll keep BOTH! But the 10 is defineately a favorite!

CW

[SDGlock23]

Originally Posted by RYT 2BER

I hear you. But I guess my confusion stems from your velocity numbers. Exactly what .40 180 gr bullet is going 1350?? For the record, underwood hot 180 gr +p .40 is rated at 1100 and his stuff is about as hot as it gets.

I have to call major bs until I see 180 gr .40 doing the velocity numbers you are talking about. Which is why you are mistaken thinking .40 and 10 are 150 ft /sec different

Underwood makes good ammo, but to assume they're as hot as it gets isn't accurate. Take the OP for instance, Underwood's doesn't offer a 180gr GD at 1450 fps. The one they do offer is listed at 1300 fps, so I could say that it's BS that the 10mm could shoot one at 1450. Take into account that Underwood's uses 800x in their 10mm loads and the charge they use is over book max by close to 10%. Obviously using 800x to get 1450 fps is over pressure as well, but I'm fine with that, I've pushed the 10mm and .40 both.


You ask for proof for my velocity numbers. In a 6" G24 .40 cal KKM barrel, using Longshot (10% over) it will shoot a 180gr XTP an average of 1,400 fps. Same setup but instead not quite 6% over book, it will average 1,330 fps with a 15 fps ES. Remember Hodgdon claims a 180gr @ 1160 fps from a 4" bbl using Longshot with pressure to spare, so adding more barrel increases the velocity.


It's all about finding the right powder, not that the .40 is incapable. Even with common powders like Unique, a less than book max charge will do a 180gr @ 1100 fps from a 4" G23 (and 1200 from a longer barrel). That load is below max pressure and goes as fast as Underwood's yet isn't "+P" at all. If UW is going to market their .40 as +P, they need to do the same with their 10mm.

Exactly... That 200 ft/sec for example on a 180 grain bullet isnt anything to sneeze at 20% may not sound like alot to some people but in the real world 200 ft/second increased velocity isnt a joke..

Now if you "need" that or not or if its important is a bigger question.. but its the same kind of question of saying do you really need 357 mag over a 38 spl. It really is exactly the same question... It is a function of do you need a magnum style version of one round or another...

But to say that from a kinetic energy perspective or from a velocity perspective that .40 and 10mm are the same is crazy..

Also, I never said the 10mm and the .40 are the same. The 10mm should be faster than the .40 because it can hold a little more powder, but that alone won't bring huge velocity increases, rather around 100-150 fps, that is if they're both loaded to the same level. From my data for both cartridges, with the heavy 220-230gr bullets, the 10mm is almost 14% faster, and even less with lighter bullets.


There is much more difference between a 38 Spcl and .357 Mag than there is between the .40 and 10mm, so comparing them isn't accurate. Now if the 10mm operated at nearly twice the pressure as the .40, like the .357 does compared to the 38 Spcl, then you really would see 300-400+ fps velocity increase over the .40. But this isn't the case at all. While the 10mm might be rated 2.5K PSI higher than the .40, that means little as the .40 is a little stronger in the case.

[SDGlock23]

Originally Posted by rustytxrx

If you take your 40 cal vs 10 mm pig hunting often, you will soon see the light. If you decided to take on pigs the size of the one posted you would learn the lesson real quickly.

I understand combat shooting, multiply hits, recoil recovery, accuracy, capacity. They are not important in hunting situations. To a great extent there is no comparison.

Hunting, perfect bullet placement with all the energy and bullet performance you can get, is what i'm after. I doubt you could put two rounds in the right spot no matter how good your split time is. Pigs are fast. Put all your money on the first shot.

Use your 40 cal for carry. Pigs are a lot tougher than humans.

I'm not saying you wouldn't ever see ANY difference at all between a warm .40 vs. a warm 10mm. It's doubtful though and any difference you did see would likely be because of any change in shot placement as opposed to any power difference. At the same time, if you're comparing/shooting a warm 10mm and a "standard" .40 of course you're going to see some difference, but that's apples to oranges and not what I'm talking about. To look at the .40 as a combat tool against humans and the 10mm as a pure bred hunting machine is a bit biased.

With both loaded warm, in the field you or the animal won't know the difference. I'm not trying to come off sounding like I'm against the 10mm, I'm not. Shoot a 10mm and be happy, but I don't buy for a second that a warm 10mm offers any practical value over a warm .40. If I want a true step up, I'm going big bore revolver.

[rustytxrx]

SDGlock23, let's just think about over the counter rounds that I could by in Fort Worth. Do you think I can buy 40 S&W that equals what I can buy for the 10mm OTC?.

I used to be a big reloader but not so much anymore.

I have two 40 cal and four 10mm. I do like to hunt with a semi auto. Been working on a 460 Rowland and a 45 Super.

I am no longer strong enough to shoot warm 10mm with good split times. Now I need to use rabbit poot rounds to shoot 150+ good shots (well 2/3 of them or pretty good)