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Old 01-30-2013, 20:22   #26
TheGrimReaper
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Great info, thanks for posting.
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Old 01-30-2013, 20:23   #27
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Originally Posted by cowboywannabe View Post
the 10mm (Glocks) can be had in mid sized or full sized, with watered down .40cal power loads or full house 10mm loads and most anything in betwix.

simply awsome.
+1 on that.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:08   #28
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Also, I never said the 10mm and the .40 are the same. The 10mm should be faster than the .40 because it can hold a little more powder, but that alone won't bring huge velocity increases, rather around 100-150 fps, that is if they're both loaded to the same level. From my data for both cartridges, with the heavy 220-230gr bullets, the 10mm is almost 14% faster, and even less with lighter bullets.
You really load 220-230 gr. bullets in .40 cases? IMO, those are beyond the range of the 10mm which I feel is best with 165-200. .40 best with 155-180. What were the velocities with those loads? What was the purpose, hunting, target? No doubt, the 10mm is more capable with longer, heavier bullets.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:20   #29
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That is one big pig!!!
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Old 02-01-2013, 13:51   #30
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You really load 220-230 gr. bullets in .40 cases? IMO, those are beyond the range of the 10mm which I feel is best with 165-200. .40 best with 155-180. What were the velocities with those loads? What was the purpose, hunting, target? No doubt, the 10mm is more capable with longer, heavier bullets.
Yeah I've loaded 220gr SNS casting hardcast and the 230gr WFNGC, offered by doubletap. I got the SNS mainly to try out some weak competition loads and at that time I also had a 10mm. Anyways I load them slightly long in the .40 to around 1.150" and they will average 1100 fps from a 6" bbl. I've found that 1.155"-1.160" (depending on bullet profile) is about as long as you can load the .40 and still fit them in the magazine.

Because of the complete lack of data for such loads, I've not worked with them too much, but I feel 1100 fps is good enough. When I loaded them for the 10mm, I got up to around 1220-1230 from a 6.6" LW bbl. I don't feel either one will bounce off game.
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Old 02-01-2013, 14:01   #31
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SDGlock23, let's just think about over the counter rounds that I could by in Fort Worth. Do you think I can buy 40 S&W that equals what I can buy for the 10mm OTC?.

I used to be a big reloader but not so much anymore.

I have two 40 cal and four 10mm. I do like to hunt with a semi auto. Been working on a 460 Rowland and a 45 Super.

I am no longer strong enough to shoot warm 10mm with good split times. Now I need to use rabbit poot rounds to shoot 150+ good shots (well 2/3 of them or pretty good)
Rusty, I guess I assumed you reload, my apologizes.

Good luck with your 460 Rowland and .45 Super, I've had fun with the .45 Super so far and I've heard the Rowland is a beast. I have a soft spot for big, heavy hardcasts. I'm sure you know, but Buffalo Bore offers both .45 Super and 460 Rowland . I'm going to work up a 280gr WFNCG Beartooth bullet in the .45 Super and hope to get close to 1050-1100 fps in the 5" KKM bbl.
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Old 02-01-2013, 15:13   #32
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If you take your 40 cal vs 10 mm pig hunting often, you will soon see the light. If you decided to take on pigs the size of the one posted you would learn the lesson real quickly.

I understand combat shooting, multiply hits, recoil recovery, accuracy, capacity. They are not important in hunting situations. To a great extent there is no comparison.

Hunting, perfect bullet placement with all the energy and bullet performance you can get, is what i'm after. I doubt you could put two rounds in the right spot no matter how good your split time is. Pigs are fast. Put all your money on the first shot.

Use your 40 cal for carry. Pigs are a lot tougher than humans.

for the record...I put two rounds in that pig's boiler with a quick double tap and it got to its feet and stumbled about 8 feet then died. after looking at its vitals (mostly jelly) I am confident that any two legged critter would react the same. I've never taken any large game with any other pistol caliber, but I would not attempt this with any 9mm, 380, 40, or with ball ammunition in a 45.

there's just something about being able to fine-tune an instrument like a G20 with couple of hand-rolled pills and have confidence in its capabilities. I cant say that about many semi-auto calibers.
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Old 02-01-2013, 15:56   #33
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for the record...I put two rounds in that pig's boiler with a quick double tap and it got to its feet and stumbled about 8 feet then died. after looking at its vitals (mostly jelly) I am confident that any two legged critter would react the same. I've never taken any large game with any other pistol caliber, but I would not attempt this with any 9mm, 380, 40, or with ball ammunition in a 45.

there's just something about being able to fine-tune an instrument like a G20 with couple of hand-rolled pills and have confidence in its capabilities. I cant say that about many semi-auto calibers.
You sure know what you are doing!
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Old 02-01-2013, 21:28   #34
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i just got a G20 today think i am really going to like it but not sure what would be the best ammo to go with. let me know what u guys like
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:34   #35
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for the record...I put two rounds in that pig's boiler with a quick double tap and it got to its feet and stumbled about 8 feet then died. after looking at its vitals (mostly jelly) I am confident that any two legged critter would react the same. I've never taken any large game with any other pistol caliber, but I would not attempt this with any 9mm, 380, 40, or with ball ammunition in a 45.

there's just something about being able to fine-tune an instrument like a G20 with couple of hand-rolled pills and have confidence in its capabilities. I cant say that about many semi-auto calibers.
Eight feet? That isn't very far at all. Most deer hunters have to track their shot deer for much farther than that.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:22   #36
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Eight feet? That isn't very far at all. Most deer hunters have to track their shot deer for much farther than that.

I agree...I fired two shots very quickly and knocked the boar down, (I regret not taking him down to the local feed store to weigh it, but I would conservatively guess 350-400lbs). he got to his feet and stumbled like a drunk a few steps and died right there. I've seen more large whitetails drop on the spot with a 30-06 than I've had to track.

It comes down to being able to put enough energy into the vital organs to immediately destroy the tissue. a bonded 180gr .40 slug at high velocity has both the surface area to reach more tissue than a 9mm or similar, and the shock of 840lbs of energy that stays in the target in the slug doesn't pass through.

With this pig, both slugs were recovered and as far as I could tell, the extreme damage to the heart and lungs has something to do with the speed and weight.

It is my opinion that this is the true "norma" load (180gr bonded slug going 1400+fps) that was adopted by the feds after the Miami shootout. It does have a stiff recoil a very load report, so I can see why some weaker agents had difficulty with it. I would not be surprised if other federal agencies use the 10mm and we just don't know.

If your still reading, my father and I were shocked at the damage to the pigs heart/lungs...if this were a 400lb athletic BG, would you want a 40S&W at 1,000fps or a 10mm with almost 50%more velocity?

-Diesel
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:29   #37
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Rusty, I guess I assumed you reload, my apologizes.

Good luck with your 460 Rowland and .45 Super, I've had fun with the .45 Super so far and I've heard the Rowland is a beast. I have a soft spot for big, heavy hardcasts. I'm sure you know, but Buffalo Bore offers both .45 Super and 460 Rowland . I'm going to work up a 280gr WFNCG Beartooth bullet in the .45 Super and hope to get close to 1050-1100 fps in the 5" KKM bbl.
As an fyi the 275 grain hunters supply bullet works great and has a good nose profile so you dont have to seat the bullet so deeply. I've gone 1200 fps in a 6 inch tube in super brass. 300 grain bullets usually require acp brass since its a bit thinner and doesnt bulge as soon, but with a good supported chamber with enough case support i've gotten 950 fps out of them.
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Old 02-04-2013, 15:03   #38
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I shot a small 140# Whitetail this year with my G20. I used a factory Winchester Silver tip 175g.
(I intended to use my hand loads I worked up all summer. But when a friends son show up unexpectedly, I lent my rifle to my friend, his son took his rifle and I took the G20 I was carrying... Silver tips are my carry ammo)

The deer came in quartering toward me, I shot him at about 40-45 yards. The bullet impacted at the base of the neck. Upon impact the deer dropped to the ground. The bullet went thru the bottom of the spine, then the shoulder and then shoulder blade and finally exited animal on the animals right shoulder. That was about 12" of penetration. Entrance was almost a nickle and exit was a quarter. The bullet was not recovered.

Caliber Corner

I have shot a half a doz pigs with my 45 Colt and one with a 45 ACP. Looking forward to the first 10MM hog.

CW
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Old 02-04-2013, 21:15   #39
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I shot a small 140# Whitetail this year with my G20. I used a factory Winchester Silver tip 175g.
(I intended to use my hand loads I worked up all summer. But when a friends son show up unexpectedly, I lent my rifle to my friend, his son took his rifle and I took the G20 I was carrying... Silver tips are my carry ammo)

The deer came in quartering toward me, I shot him at about 40-45 yards. The bullet impacted at the base of the neck. Upon impact the deer dropped to the ground. The bullet went thru the bottom of the spine, then the shoulder and then shoulder blade and finally exited animal on the animals right shoulder. That was about 12" of penetration. Entrance was almost a nickle and exit was a quarter. The bullet was not recovered.



I have shot a half a doz pigs with my 45 Colt and one with a 45 ACP. Looking forward to the first 10MM hog.

CW
I gotta ask this question. I'm not a hunter nor will I ever be.

That notwithstanding I always wonder... Look at your experience. That deer was shot at 45 feet. Bullet was all over then existed. What happens when you shoot a bad guy at 7 feet...is that bullet going right through? I mean deer skin is pretty frigin tough.

I carry hot 10mm... Hotter than silvertips and I wonder the same about myself.
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Old 02-04-2013, 21:29   #40
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...What happens when you shoot a bad guy at 7 feet...is that bullet going right through? I mean deer skin is pretty frigin tough...

You OWN every bullet you expend in a gunfight. If you have a "through & through" & injure an innocent bystander then you go to court just as if you hit them with a missed shot.
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Old 02-04-2013, 21:35   #41
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It something I consider when I carry. I don't want to start another "issue" but I carry and load considering penetration
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Old 02-04-2013, 22:27   #42
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I know this contdictory, but normally at closer range and higher vel you get less penetration. I've seen it a lot in deer hunting with a rifle.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:22   #43
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I gotta ask this question. I'm not a hunter nor will I ever be.

That notwithstanding I always wonder... Look at your experience. That deer was shot at 45 feet. Bullet was all over then existed. What happens when you shoot a bad guy at 7 feet...is that bullet going right through? I mean deer skin is pretty frigin' tough.

I carry hot 10mm... Hotter than silver tips and I wonder the same about myself.
The shot was YARDS, not feet.

Even 45 FEET is a very long personal protection shot...

But yes, I agree, that bullet would likely have penetrated a person easier than it did that deer... At that angle, the deer is ''thicker'' than a person unless the person was angled to shoot thru the side and both arms. BUT that would likely include more and heavier bones.

Add heavy winter clothing and or heavy muscular bodies and things change again...

Back on topic....

DAMN THAT'S A BIG PIG!!

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:58   #44
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I know this contdictory, but normally at closer range and higher vel you get less penetration. I've seen it a lot in deer hunting with a rifle.
This is a good point
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:14   #45
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I agree...I fired two shots very quickly and knocked the boar down, (I regret not taking him down to the local feed store to weigh it, but I would conservatively guess 350-400lbs). he got to his feet and stumbled like a drunk a few steps and died right there. I've seen more large whitetails drop on the spot with a 30-06 than I've had to track.

It comes down to being able to put enough energy into the vital organs to immediately destroy the tissue. a bonded 180gr .40 slug at high velocity has both the surface area to reach more tissue than a 9mm or similar, and the shock of 840lbs of energy that stays in the target in the slug doesn't pass through.

With this pig, both slugs were recovered and as far as I could tell, the extreme damage to the heart and lungs has something to do with the speed and weight.

It is my opinion that this is the true "norma" load (180gr bonded slug going 1400+fps) that was adopted by the feds after the Miami shootout. It does have a stiff recoil a very load report, so I can see why some weaker agents had difficulty with it. I would not be surprised if other federal agencies use the 10mm and we just don't know.

If your still reading, my father and I were shocked at the damage to the pigs heart/lungs...if this were a 400lb athletic BG, would you want a 40S&W at 1,000fps or a 10mm with almost 50%more velocity?

-Diesel
I'd carry the 10mm for sure.
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Old 02-08-2013, 23:18   #46
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I gotta ask this question. I'm not a hunter nor will I ever be.

That notwithstanding I always wonder... Look at your experience. That deer was shot at 45 feet. Bullet was all over then existed. What happens when you shoot a bad guy at 7 feet...is that bullet going right through? I mean deer skin is pretty frigin tough.

I carry hot 10mm... Hotter than silvertips and I wonder the same about myself.
Worst case scenario, the prosecutor digs up all your interwebs accounts and finds this thread. No pleading ignorance from this point on. Be responsible, the .40 works fine on scumbags and you don't need to buy ammo from some guy who makes it in his garage (or your garage). Been shooting 10mm for 12 years. 155's would be max weight if you plan on carrying IF you're worried about it. If not, F it!

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Old 02-09-2013, 04:55   #47
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Worst case scenario, the prosecutor digs up all your interwebs accounts and finds this thread. No pleading ignorance from this point on. Be responsible, the .40 works fine on scumbags and you don't need to buy ammo from some guy who makes it in his garage (or your garage). Been shooting 10mm for 12 years. 155's would be max weight if you plan on carrying IF you're worried about it. If not, F it!

155 is what I carry
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:08   #48
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Worst case scenario, the prosecutor digs up all your interwebs accounts and finds this thread. No pleading ignorance from this point on. Be responsible, the .40 works fine on scumbags and you don't need to buy ammo from some guy who makes it in his garage (or your garage). Been shooting 10mm for 12 years. 155's would be max weight if you plan on carrying IF you're worried about it. If not, F it!
These "over powered" or "over penetration" arguments sure sound familiar. They had all the same arguments back in the 1960 era when 357 magnums were becoming more popular, versus 38 special.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:38   #49
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These "over powered" or "over penetration" arguments sure sound familiar. They had all the same arguments back in the 1960 era when 357 magnums were becoming more popular, versus 38 special.
.357s in the 60's and 70's, .40 S&W in the 80's and 90's. I wonder what will be next - energy weapons?
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:47   #50
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.357s in the 60's and 70's, .40 S&W in the 80's and 90's. I wonder what will be next - energy weapons?
I can have a Death Ray but I'm limited to no. 4 on the dial and after pushing the Fire button 7 times I will have to power down and restart.
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