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Old 01-29-2013, 08:54   #41
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Originally Posted by Hand Grenade View Post

Between a Sig and Bryco I will take the Bryco. The DEA rejected Sig pistols and practically called them junk. Dutch government completely cancelled it's order of tens of thousands of Sig pistols because they would completely jam on the first magazine out of the box. You only paying for the name when you buy a Sig.
Did you know that lots of DEA agents are carrying issued P229's at this very moment?
I sure miss the country I grew up in.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:57   #42
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Originally Posted by GruGrux515 View Post
Why the price difference between fruit of the loom and Calvin Klein? They all get holes in the crotch and sh it stains in the rear but people are willing to pay the difference for the name
There's lot more than just a difference in name between those guns.

I suggest you educate yourself a bit before posting.

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Old 01-29-2013, 09:56   #43
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Originally Posted by LampShadeActual View Post
The P220 would only work with one magic overall length of the rounds. Longer or shorter, they would not feed. Think hardball length in a defensive pistol.
Hm... My P220 shoots my reloaded 230 gr LRN, 230 gr FMJ and 200 gr LSWC without fail. It will also shoot what little factory ammo I buy.

I made no changes whatsoever to my reloading practice to accomodate the Sig. The OAL is 1.250" and it has been for more than 30 years.

Yes, it will even chamber the LSWC without fail.

And my Sig 1911 is superb! It is every bit the equal of my Colt Gold Cup in terms of accuracy and it too will eat everything I feed it.


As to prices, Glock sells a lot of guns on a small profit margin. The others sell fewer guns and try to get a bigger profit per unit. It is whatever your business model wants.

As to useage, police and military units using SIG, HK, and Beretta did not dent Glocks 80% share of the police market. The only thing that cut it to 65-70% is the Springfield and S&W clones nearly given to PDs free.
Let's not attribute to quality what can be explained as administrations buying the cheapest possible product.

It's not all that expensive to manufacture a gun by squirting plastic into a mold.

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Old 01-29-2013, 10:18   #44
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I own Glocks and Sigs, have spent some time with H&Ks.

I don't think there's a lick of difference in quality between any of 'em.

The H&Ks and Sigs simply require more resources to build, that's why they cost more.

They all serve different perceived needs and they do it well.

Glock vs Sig vs H&K:

"Oooooh.. This one's shiny and it's made out of metal... It's high quality."

"Nu-uh. This one is plastic and tennifer, it never rusts and will shoot elventy-zillion rounds in an Afghan sandstorm with no malfunctions."

"But you see... You lack the refinement of ambidextrous slide release levers that rattle, a gritty fourteen pound trigger and $50 magazines. It even has a miniature windshield wiper to keep the headlights clean in the rain Ron..."
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Last edited by samuse; 01-29-2013 at 10:28..
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:37   #45
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Glocks are still priced cheap compared to Sig and HK because Glock is essentially building a 25 year old pistol where all the R&D and other upfront costs etc... where paid for a long time ago. Now add in the fact a Glock is the absolute cheapest/simplest design out there and no one can manufacture a quality duty pistol as cheap as Glock can.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:03   #46
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I shoot and carry a glock 22, Sig P-220, 226, and 229, SA XD-S and CZs, and a few others. I recently got a Steyr M40-a1 which is made in Austria like the Glock. I think the Steyr is more comfy and more accurate than my Glock for me anyway. Also comparing apples and oranges with the Glocks and Sigs and HKs. I would add that in my opinion the new Sigs are not junk like some here have stated. Mine are all Elite Dark models and I think they are very well made. But then I don't work on them like the guy that was at all the armory schools. Just my opinions and experiences.

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Old 01-29-2013, 11:03   #47
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Please, don't feed the trolls
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:04   #48
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I own generation 3 G21 and G33. I recently purchased an HK45C after having extensively researching compact handguns. I paid $1,100.00 for it. A lot of money for a polymer pistol. When I hold the G21 and the HK there is a notable difference in these two weapons. The difference is in the details. I have'nt fired the HK so I have no opinion in that regard. I have fired my Glocks and have complete faith in their function. Having devoted that much money to a handgun may result in it being a range gun and safe queen. The Glocks will be my primary weapon for home protection and ccw. Glocks just instill that kind of confidence for me. After having purchased the HK I more clearly understand the devotion people have in their Glocks.
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Old 01-29-2013, 15:03   #49
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Don't get Sigarms confused with Sig-Sauer (owned by same company) as I believe the Sigarms pistols are mfg'd up in Exeter, NH and not in Germany like the Sig-Sauers. Personally I've never fired a Sigarms pistol that I cared for (SigPro, P-250 etc) but on the other hand the 226 mfg'd by Sig-Sauer is one of the finest handguns in the world IMO. Pricier than the Sigarms stuff but superior in quality. Like taking one of the SIG 551 "Classics" mfg'd by Sigarms and comparing them to one of the pre-ban SIG 550s or 551s made at SIG in Neuhausen back in the '80s...just aren't the same rifles.

On the HK note- I've always felt that nearly anything made by HK was vpgreatly overpriced. That said I think the USP is a fine pistol, a little blocky in the slide and awkward feeling to me but worked just fine- however I sold mine to fund another Glock.
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Old 01-29-2013, 15:11   #50
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Sigs cost more because of the fancy braided recoil spring!
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Old 01-29-2013, 15:21   #51
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My only problem with H&K besides the price is that the trigger on every polymer-framed one I've handled has suuuuucked. Super heavy, creepy and gritty. That said, I still want one. I'm not sure I $1,100 want one though. SIGs tend to have great triggers, and I find the DA/SA transition to be a total non-issue. Glock triggers are fine once they get broken in a bit.

H&Ks have a great "feel" to them. When you hold an H&K, you know you're holding a serious weapon. They're rock solid. The Gen4 Glocks have the same sort of feel to me, where the earlier generations did not. Earlier Glocks feel "looser". Maybe it's just because my older generation Glocks have been shot more and have loosened up a bit. It's hard to remember what a gun you've used for a while felt like when it was new. I'd much rather have 2 Glocks than 1 H&K for my money.
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Old 01-29-2013, 15:58   #52
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I have nothing to add save my personal experience with Glocks, Sigs, XDs, Walthers, Berettas and a Seecamp.

Glocks are wonderful tools.

But I ENJOY the Sigs, XD, Walthers and Berettas. The Seecamp...well, it fills a niche....<ggggg>
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Old 01-29-2013, 16:07   #53
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Originally Posted by 2-8 Marine View Post
Your analogy is about as classless and wrong as your conclusion. There IS a distinct difference in quality between Glock, HK and Sig; The latter two being made to higher standards. I own, have owned and handled many HK, Sigs and Glocks in my time (66 yrs) and anyone who's experienced them knows that difference. Glock is an excellent gun for what it is. But there is no denying that HK and Sig are better made. People don't buy HK, Sig or even Glock simply for the name, but because of the atributes the name implies, quality, reliability, endurence, dependability, etc they all have their strong points. You may know something about underwear, but Sig and HK's not so much.
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:22   #54
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I owned 3 Sig pistols in the early 90's. Great guns... The 226 was my main range gun, and had close to 50K rounds through it without any problem. I decided to get out of guns when my first son was born. Not because I was afraid having guns and a young child in the same household, but because it made my wife extremely uncomfortable... In retrospect, I should have stored them at a friend's place instead of selling off everything.... Fast forward to present day, the only Sig I have is a railed 229 made in Exeter. I would trade that for my old one (non-railed) in a heart beat.

I don't know exactly how many HK's I have, but a bunch. I like their designs, the quality, and the exclusivity - an average street thug doesn't usually carry an HK, putting it badly.

Glocks are functional, reliable, ugly as h***. They have crossed the threshold of being well made guns. Anything beyond a Glock is diminishing returns on your money. But hey, I don't mind spending the money, like a lot of folks here.

Lastly, even though Sigs and HK's are better made than Glocks in my opinion, there is actually a lot of science that goes into determining the price points of guns, or any product. The cost of producing them is almost irrelevant.

Last edited by vtducrider; 01-30-2013 at 14:48..
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:24   #55
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
Are you new to Glocks? Durability is one of the things they are best known for. I wasn't aware that there were even people who thought they didn't have "lifetime durability" or were "disposable" but I can tell you, you don't know much about Glocks or their history.

My Production 34 lasted 2 years before the slide and frame failed. To me, that's a disposable gun. To a cop who shoots 30K rounds in his entire career maybe it's a lifetime gun.

I love the 34. Glock replaced my slide and frame. I'm not complaining - just didn't realize the durability limitations at the outset. The 34 works better for me than the CZ, XDm or M&P.

My basic point is that I personally would prefer a more durable gun at a higher cost. It took me almost a year to get the first 34 dialed in. Granted, I know where the likely problem areas are now, so that process is much easier.

I donít expect a Glock to stand up to a decade of 30K round years, but half of that would be nice.
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:49   #56
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I currently own examples of all 3. Carried the Hk on duty before we switched to Glock. As far as the differences between glock and Hk they are very similar. The Hk was a little beefier (less frame flex) different RSA and hammer fired. Does that make Hk better and demand the price? Not in the least bit. We dumped the platform and went to Glock for a reason. Price was probably the biggest factor as glock also supplied Safariland holsters, mag pouches and Surefire tac lights as part of the deal. I can honestly tell you though that qual scores went up across the board and we don't have nearly the problems had with Hk. Sig on the other hand is a different beast. A lot of work goes into production such as machine work and hand finishing not needed on the other 2. They make a fine firearm worth a few extra bucks.
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Old 01-30-2013, 16:27   #57
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Well you need to shoot them side by side,
I did, now most of my glocks are gone,
Dont get me wrong, i like my glocks,
But the hk and sig are better engineered and accurate.

Hk excels at everything they make
So you pay for quality,
If glock is so perfect, why is there an entire industry dedicated
To making them more perfect?
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Old 01-30-2013, 16:37   #58
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How are sigs and HKs perfect?

I have sold my sig and hks. I do not regret it one bit.

the sig never would run right without tons of lube, sent back three times and got tired of the CS

the HK ran right out of the box and shot very nice but the glock was not much different other than then SA/DA.

the glock is also much lighter and easier to tote around vs the block slides of the usp and the sig 226 was extremely bulky, I cannot believe people even carry these as duty weapons.
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Old 01-30-2013, 16:38   #59
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SIG quality? Buy a Mosquito .22LR and then tell me about it. I stupidly bought one. After two trips to the factory, I do not recall it every going one full magazine without failing to fire, feed, or eject at least once.

Glock quality? The output of two major companies is devoted to making their own copies of the Glock. Somehow that indicates they are sufficiently perfect to be copied to death. The combination of Glock, S&W's M&P line, and Springfield's Croatia made striker fired copies is probably 98% of the full size pistols being sold today of the M26/Shield/XDs size and bigger.
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Old 01-30-2013, 16:59   #60
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Originally Posted by michael_b View Post
Don't mention thread counts to him...

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I got that . . .very good.
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