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Old 01-30-2013, 18:35   #61
bunk22
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Originally Posted by Hand Grenade View Post
Sigs are overpriced...overrated...overhyped pieces of junk! They have a ridiculous high bore axis and you have to spray it with rust-o-leum every day or it will rust just by looking at it. In my experience they are the most inaccurate and most unreliable pistols. Sigs will practically fall apart in water.

Between a Sig and Bryco I will take the Bryco. The DEA rejected Sig pistols and practically called them junk. Dutch government completely cancelled it's order of tens of thousands of Sig pistols because they would completely jam on the first magazine out of the box. You only paying for the name when you buy a Sig.
LOL some funny stuff here Have to love the internet!!!
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Old 01-30-2013, 18:40   #62
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Originally Posted by Montblanc View Post
How are sigs and HKs perfect?

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Neither advertise "perfection" like glock does.
Now i do not feel under armed with either.
But imho,
the HK and Sigs are built to a higher standard, and better materials, fit/finish and quality.
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Old 01-30-2013, 18:50   #63
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I love my Glocks , dont get me wrong but until you shoot and HK 45 for example ,you can then understand why HK cost what they do.
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Old 01-30-2013, 19:00   #64
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Same thing here, I love my Glock and carry it every day, for sure is the most reliable gun in the world but when I shoot my Sig P226 Tacops is when know why the price difference.
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Old 01-30-2013, 19:01   #65
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I have shot an HK45 but its nothing special.

Variety is the spice of life to each his own.

I enjoy Glocks due to the initial price, magazine price and reliability.
they are also lightweight and I can do a full detail strip with ease.
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Old 01-30-2013, 19:12   #66
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SIG quality? Buy a Mosquito .22LR and then tell me about it. I stupidly bought one. After two trips to the factory, I do not recall it every going one full magazine without failing to fire, feed, or eject at least once.

Glock quality? The output of two major companies is devoted to making their own copies of the Glock. Somehow that indicates they are sufficiently perfect to be copied to death. The combination of Glock, S&W's M&P line, and Springfield's Croatia made striker fired copies is probably 98% of the full size pistols being sold today of the M26/Shield/XDs size and bigger.

Damn, I guess you didn't realize that Sig doesn't even make the Mosquito, did you?

You're basing your opinion of a stellar company like Sig Sauer on a pot metal rimfire built by an airsoft company? That's like basing your opinion of Walther on the P22. Yeah, I'd say you need to learn a thing or two, wouldn't you agree?

Also, the M&P and especially the XD are about as different from Glock as another striker fired polymer pistol can be.

A copy of Glock? The XD? Get real. I'm not sure which one of your buds told you that, but they're totally different pistols.

Do you have any other good info for me?
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Old 01-30-2013, 19:15   #67
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Originally Posted by grecco View Post
Neither advertise "perfection" like glock does.
Now i do not feel under armed with either.
But imho,
the HK and Sigs are built to a higher standard, and better materials, fit/finish and quality.
You've got that right
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Old 01-30-2013, 20:13   #68
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When it comes to doing what they do, propelling a slug at a target, they're pretty close. The difference is in the companies philosophy and culture. Imagine a design staff meeting:

Case 1), Glock:
Design Engineer: We've finished redesigning the frame rails. They work ok, but the plating seems to flake off.
Chief Engineer: Well they work ok, good enough. Ship it.

Case 2). HK:
Design Engineer: We've finished redesigning the frame rails. They work ok, but the plating seems to flake off.
Chief Engineer: While it may be good enough, it's not correct. Back to work.

I can see that meeting happening regarding other issues too, such as warped dust covers (and the warped accessory rail that goes with them), etc. The kind of stuff that gets rationalized by fans as not affecting function would never be tolerated by SIG or HK, and people are willing to pay a premium for correctness over good enough.

Last edited by omega48038; 01-30-2013 at 20:23.. Reason: correcting auto-correct
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Old 01-30-2013, 21:36   #69
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Bac the s&w sigma was so similar to glock that glock sued them and won lol. People can say what they want about fit and finish our whatever. Glock is a workhorse and I'd put its reliability up against any hk or sig or there. It's like comparing the fit and finish of an f150 and a Mercedes. Obviously the Mercedes is nicer and maybe tighter built... It's still not surviving the abuse the Ford would.

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Old 01-30-2013, 21:44   #70
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Damn, I guess you didn't realize that Sig doesn't even make the Mosquito, did you?
You're basing your opinion of a stellar company like Sig Sauer on a pot metal rimfire built by an airsoft company? That's like basing your opinion of Walther on the P22. Yeah, I'd say you need to learn a thing or two, wouldn't you agree?

Also, the M&P and especially the XD are about as different from Glock as another striker fired polymer pistol can be. A copy of Glock? The XD? Get real. I'm not sure which one of your buds told you that, but they're totally different pistols.

Do you have any other good info for me?



Naw, really not. Unless its raining or really cold, I don't have time for 75,000 posts. Get a life.

But wait, it said SIG on the Mosquito, came in a SIG box, and the NH factory paid to get it back twice to try to fix. That's not SIG? Oh, just something they put their name on? (I have carried SIGs, a P226 and a P220. Both were OK, but not anything special. Their design is ancient from the 1970 era Browning design that barely sold and the bore line is so high above your hand the P220 especially is no real fun to shoot a lot in one day.)

But wait more. The S&W M&P and the Croatian guns are plastic bottomed, steel railed, striker fired, by a drawbar trigger, hand guns. Cosmetics and some engineering differ from Glock, but most were a step backwards, not forwards. Unless the ass end of the striker sticking out the rear of the slide really is an inovation. Oh, Smiths can have a safety. Not a step forward. For all practical purposes, they are copies of the Glock design idea.

But wait, what would I know. Barely 100 posts in the midst of internet genius. Some day I have to figure out quoting.

But wait, I gotta have a picture to be InterKool. I rate me:

Yes I am making fun of you.

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Old 01-30-2013, 21:46   #71
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Bac the s&w sigma was so similar to glock that glock sued them and won lol. People can say what they want about fit and finish our whatever. Glock is a workhorse and I'd put its reliability up against any hk or sig or there. It's like comparing the fit and finish of an f150 and a Mercedes. Obviously the Mercedes is nicer and maybe tighter built... It's still not surviving the abuse the Ford would.

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Yeah, the Sigma was for sure. I've got one myself.

I was speaking of the M&P and XD. That post was such a load of uneducated nonsense that I felt compelled to reply.

I also never said anything about the reliability, though I think I'd give HK and Sig a slight advantage over the last couple of years, wouldn't you?

A Glock's reliability is WAY overstated. They are no more reliable than a good 90% of the mainstream pistols on the market today. The problem is that too many here have no experience with much of anything else. Decades ago, Glock had a distinct reliability advantage over the competition. That's clearly not the case these days.

Some people need to wake up, get their head out of their ass. and realize that.
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Old 01-30-2013, 21:58   #72
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Originally Posted by LampShadeActual View Post
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Damn, I guess you didn't realize that Sig doesn't even make the Mosquito, did you?
You're basing your opinion of a stellar company like Sig Sauer on a pot metal rimfire built by an airsoft company? That's like basing your opinion of Walther on the P22. Yeah, I'd say you need to learn a thing or two, wouldn't you agree?

Also, the M&P and especially the XD are about as different from Glock as another striker fired polymer pistol can be. A copy of Glock? The XD? Get real. I'm not sure which one of your buds told you that, but they're totally different pistols.

Do you have any other good info for me?



Naw, really not. Unless its raining or really cold, I don't have time for 75,000 posts. Get a life.

But wait, it said SIG on the Mosquito, came in a SIG box, and the NH factory paid to get it back twice to try to fix. That's not SIG? Oh, just something they put their name on? (I have carried SIGs, a P226 and a P220. Both were OK, but not anything special. Their design is ancient from the 1970 era Browning design that barely sold and the bore line is so high above your hand the P220 especially is no real fun to shoot a lot in one day.)

But wait more. The S&W M&P and the Croatian guns are plastic bottomed, steel railed, striker fired, by a drawbar trigger, hand guns. Cosmetics and some engineering differ from Glock, but most were a step backwards, not forwards. Unless the ass end of the striker sticking out the rear of the slide really is an inovation. Oh, Smiths can have a safety. Not a step forward. For all practical purposes, they are copies of the Glock design idea.

But wait, what would I know. Barely 100 posts in the midst of internet genius. Some day I have to figure out quoting.

But wait, I gotta have a picture to be InterKool. I rate me:

Yes I am making fun of you.

I have a great life, you?

I don't base anything on post count. I was basing my response solely on the complete cluelessness of your post.

I just thought I'd give you a bit of an education, so you could make a little more sense going forward.

Understood?

Actually, you probably don't
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Old 01-30-2013, 22:02   #73
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Originally Posted by LampShadeActual View Post

But wait, what would I know.
Apparently not too much...

So I guess you think Glock was the first striker fire design? How about the first polymer pistol?

Maybe they did the copying, no?

By the way, I don't think either the M&P or the XD is a step backwards. They are a step forwards, which Glock is now reacting to by releasing the Gen 4.
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Old 01-31-2013, 18:08   #74
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Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post

A Glock's reliability is WAY overstated. They are no more reliable than a good 90% of the mainstream pistols on the market today. The problem is that too many here have no experience with much of anything else. Decades ago, Glock had a distinct reliability advantage over the competition. That's clearly not the case these days.
Agreed, my G19 is from 1989. The good old days.
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Old 01-31-2013, 18:46   #75
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Apparently not too much...

So I guess you think Glock was the first striker fire design? How about the first polymer pistol?

Maybe they did the copying, no?

By the way, I don't think either the M&P or the XD is a step backwards. They are a step forwards, which Glock is now reacting to by releasing the Gen 4.
The M&P and xd are a step forward in ergonomics. They will not last as long as the glock will 10000 rounds later though. Glock absolutely has its shortcomings and NO gun is 100% reliable but I would absolutely stand behind Glock over any other brand out there. Theyre strong and theyre simple. I would also say that Sig hasnt improved anything. Their best guns were the german made ones (that they do still offer). Their quality went downhill when they started building guns in NH. My only Sig is a p250. Granted its the cheapest gun they make but in all honesty its a piece of crap. Its been back to Sig twice for firing out of battery. The first time it blew out the extractor and the second time it cracked the frame. It was cheap but not much cheaper then a Glock at gssf pricing. Completely unsold me on Sig and im in the process of putting like 2000+ rounds through it to restore my faith because my girl actually likes to shoot the damn thing. If it werent for that it would be sold. And IMO the toughest auto S&W ever made was the Sigma lol. I would buy one if I found one cheap enough.
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Old 01-31-2013, 18:59   #76
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The M&P and xd are a step forward in ergonomics. They will not last as long as the glock will 10000 rounds later though. Glock absolutely has its shortcomings and NO gun is 100% reliable but I would absolutely stand behind Glock over any other brand out there. Theyre strong and theyre simple. I would also say that Sig hasnt improved anything. Their best guns were the german made ones (that they do still offer). Their quality went downhill when they started building guns in NH. My only Sig is a p250. Granted its the cheapest gun they make but in all honesty its a piece of crap. Its been back to Sig twice for firing out of battery. The first time it blew out the extractor and the second time it cracked the frame. It was cheap but not much cheaper then a Glock at gssf pricing. Completely unsold me on Sig and im in the process of putting like 2000+ rounds through it to restore my faith because my girl actually likes to shoot the damn thing. If it werent for that it would be sold. And IMO the toughest auto S&W ever made was the Sigma lol. I would buy one if I found one cheap enough.

Personally, I don't care for the Sigs built in NH, but I really don't feel the quality of the standard P series pistols is any different. I agree about the P250, but I have a Sigpro 2022 that's been outstanding.

I not sure I agree that the XD or M&P are any less durable than a Glock.
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Old 01-31-2013, 21:26   #77
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...A Glock's reliability is WAY overstated. They are no more reliable than a good 90% of the mainstream pistols on the market today...

Decades ago, Glock had a distinct reliability advantage over the competition. That's clearly not the case these days.

Some people need to wake up, get their head out of their ass. and realize that.

Glock is just as reliable today as in the 80's. The problem is that there are far more neophytes today who have no serious handgun training & who insist on running Walmart ammo through a gun sprung for NATO spec/self defense ammo and wonder why they get weak ejection. Easily solved is the shooter if willing to listen & change.

Back on topic, the SIG is more expensive due to more metal & more machine work. SIG also charges more because people keep buying their guns. I like SIG and have a new p229 SRT .357 that has been flawless for over 1K rds. H&K are great guns, however very overpriced for a gun with basically a Lorcin style trigger pull. There is no excuse for this awful trigger pull.

That said, the REAL new contender now is Walther who is gaining legs with their PPQ and their new PPX. The latter has a MSRP of less than $500. Walther is hungry for market share and it's to the shooter's benefit. The PPQ caught H&K with their pants down and basically left them in the dust. Ask anyone who has shot both.

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Old 01-31-2013, 21:28   #78
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I wish I got a 2022 instead of the p250. The p250 is everything I wanted in a gun for my girl. Dao, easy to rack, smaller handle, 15 rd mag, no manual safety. It shoots excellent honestly. Smoothest da trigger I've ever felt. It's just had the 2 major malfunctions tho so I can't trust it. I held a p220 the other day in a shop and it felt very similar. Idk I guess I expected it to feel heavier and tighter then my 250 which was half the price but it didn't. I will say I'd buy an m&p or xd before another Sig.

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Old 01-31-2013, 22:06   #79
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I have two M&Ps and even though they are outstanding pistols they will never shoot as my Sig P226 TacOps shoot. IMHO the only (not 1911) pistols capable to shoot better than the Sig P series are the Browning High Power and the CZ-75.
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Old 01-31-2013, 22:18   #80
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I like them all. Each has unique characteristics and none are perfect. If it weren't for the recall, the Caracal comes the closest to reaching "Glock Perfection"-- lower bore axis, fewer parts and nicer trigger. For some reason I can achieve better accuracy while shooting the Sig's.

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